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God it's been a long 5 years of being terrible, we really need to start seeing some results now. Members need a huge round of applause for not only sticking fat but joining in records numbers. Time to repay the faith I think, although I'm not overly hopeful for 2012.

The issue is why we recruited him in the first place. He was seen as a KPF and would take years to develop. Whether you blame Lucas or not (I dont know why you raised it) is irrelevant. Given we used a first round pick we shouyld expect that he will develop into a good footballer and not a Molan or a Smith. And dont carry on about Darling as if it was obvious. You clearly had no idea about him 12 months and was cautioning others not to do likewise. You know 15 other Clubs passed him as there were risks in taking him early. He has a had a good first year. Let see how they both pan out over the next 4 to 9 years. And given your contradictory stance 12 months ago I wouldn't be pumping your chest too hard. As a back flip its one of your most obvious of recent. We recruited talented healthy fit 17 to 18 year olds who arent going to be on Australia's biggest loser. They are still growing into their bodies. 2011 was always going to be a tough year. The list was younger in 2011 than it was in 2010 with significant senior players departing an allready limited senior list. You must have been in dreamtime if you thought there was going to be some magical turnaround in 2011. We got stellar 2010s out of Jamar and Green and it was always doubtful whether they could top or equal that performance. Who was going to stand up? Through out the pre and early season we lost crucial players with injury (eg Jamar, Scully,Garland, Grimes and Bail). And we still have the challenges in 2012. And you need more than Neeld being a genius you will need that core of talent to start showing their wares. The Club have always targeted these kids needed 50 games to have the maturity for AFL week in week out. And they do this with the generally dysfunctional senior leaders group.

I contend that no-one in their right mind would ever accept being a "care-taker" captain knowing that 12 months down the track you are going to be, in effect, made redundant; this would be he same as being told "there's someone we think will be a better captain than you, but we want to get another year's worth of experience into him first, so you'll have to do in the meantime." - that would be a kick in the guts to someone as passionate about the club as Moloney is. If the club considers him good enough to be captain of the club this year, then he should hold that position for as long as he proves himself effective.

I may not be as articulate as some posters on this thread but I cannot hold back any longer I have been a supporter of our Club for something like 70 yrs even following them when we played our home games at Punt Rd as the M C G was unavailable during the war years I am appalled by some suggestions that Jim be asked to resign. sacked or to take a pay cut. All this coming from supposed "supporters" of Club I would say that Jim has given his guts and more for our club and to treat him in such disrespect saddens me greatly. Now on Gary .I don`t care whether he was asked ,stuck his bib in or what but he came in our of need,as friends do,to help. Of course the proof of the pudding etc but I firmly believe we have a very good coaching panel led by Mark. As an interstater I love the training notes so keep up the good work boys. God bless Jim and his family

According to Champion Data Strauss had a kicking efficiency of 75% under pressure in 2011 - the second highest % of any player who played at least 9 games.

He's a smart young bloke that Max Gawn. I've said it before but I really think we'll go into 2013 with two top youngsters who both should be ready to go but from different perspectives - Max Gawn and Jack Viney.

You can read the parts you want to - just the recent stuff or just the stuff from posters that interest you - at least everything is in one place. I don't see the problem. IMO there is a problem now with 30 threads on Morton's development that didn't start out on that topic.

Unless you are in the Serengeti.

You know it is probably only going to get worse (Your worry that is ) Strauss has a very long way to go before he wins the MFC B & F. To start with he has to get over a shockingly bad leg break. That might make 2012 an average year on it's own. In my wildest dreams I do not see him winning one before 2013 if ever. Suffer on with me Ron B

I can announce that AFL 360 will be screening four nights a week (Monday - Thursday) on Fox Footy. As well, On The Couch and AFL Insider will be returning Cheers Rhett

Here's a novel idea: pick the best leader(s) as captain(s) every year. If there are consecutive years of the same captain(s) then so be it, if not - then grow up.

I'm of very similar view to you Hardtack. If Beamer were to be made Captain, I'd be looking at it as a potential 3-5 year thing. But coming off one of his best years, if he were to put in a horror 2012, does that mean we strip him immediately? Would he not "deserve" 2014 to redeem himself? I guess where I'm coming from is that Green has been a very good clubman for many years, has held the captaincy for 22 games, not all of which were below standard, yet some are still wanting his head. I'll throw the question to everyone in this manner, let's assume Grimes or Trengove are made captain in 2012. What happens if Grimes plays 8 games for the year (due to injury) and/or Trengove's form drops off? Do we sack them after 12 months in the job? I think not.

I thought that when the coaching positions for Port Adelaide in 2011 and Melbourne in 2007 came up that successful aspirants were mad because they were on a hiding to nothing. There is a real risk that the winner would take a crud a list and never enjoy real success within their coaching tenure. There is always those that want the experience no matter for how long. I completely disagree that Beamer holds the job while he is effective. He gets the job because he is the best person for the job and he gets assessed every year. It should be the same for all on and off field positions at MFC.

The reality is that everybody "butchers" the ball at some time but some butcher more than others. I recently watched one of the games in the Foxtel Close Encounters series - round 1 of last year between Geelong and St. Kilda. The disposal of players on both sides was appalling, especially in the first half. Some of the players who were butchering the ball were players who are normally pretty precise with their kicking. Perhaps I got them on a bad day or they were nervous or rusty because it was round 1 but you would have gotten the impression from that game that even a Goddard was an ordinary kick. That's obviously not the case in the long run and, from what I've seen of Strauss over the past four years, and that includes TAC Cup, VFL and AFL games, has been well above average.

..........not necessarily a leadership vacuum, IMO, maybe just fine tuning the timing. If the option is to appoint, say, Moloney for a year then one of the young Jacks, or retain Green for that year, I think in the interests of stability keeping Green would be the best option. Accept that he, like the whole team, had a crap year 2011. To appoint Moloney for one year, then drop him in favour of a Jack would be a hell of a kick in the guts to one of our hardest mids. Sure, appoint the Jacks as joint vice captains, which will state clearly our future intentions of generational change....the likes of Moloney (&Davey etc) will then know without doubt that their time will not come, and they can get on with the game.

Who do you propose as the best kick on the team?

He may not have the depth of kick that Tapscott has but the kid can kick. I went to the $ Casey game last year where Strauss' kicking was a feature and one of the primary reasons he got back into the senior side. Sometimes his decision making at senior level is not great but he has only played 11 games.

Ironic that I'm getting a blank post?

I disagree that it's a crisis. Sure there is no standout option, but it's not like we have NO options. There a quite a few candidates who could have a very strong case made for them: Jones: see what vanlo said. Frawley: All Australian full back who has stamped his authority on just about every FF out there. He leads by example in every game he plays, and will be around for the long haul. Trengove: Maybe a touch too young, but is red and blue, through and through. Moloney: Apart from one off field indiscretion in 2011, the role would be all his. Green: Leading under difficult circumstances in 2011, could be argued that he deserves another chance. Rivers: Leader in the back line, veteran of the club. Could be an interim leader while JT or JG continue their development. Grimes: Troubled by injuries, but by all reports a natural leader, and also a Demon through and through. Jamar: Strong on field performances in the past 2 years have changed him from a fringe player at the Demons to an all australian. I doubt he'll be selected due to a lack of leadership experience. I'm not worried about the captaincy, as I'm sure Neeld and co will make the right decision for the club, be it co-captains, or a standalone.

... but what's to say that he won't improve dramatically gsmith12? He already has one weapon that his main competitors for the position don't have and that's his excellent disposal, particularly by foot. Add to the fact that on my one visit to pre season training, he appeared to be the most improved in terms of physical development, that's a good start. Give him time to regain his confidence after that break and lutz could prove to be right on the money.

hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! answer me this - 80 min game. if you get 30 touches, you may have the ball for say 2 seconds each possession - thats a minute out of 80. so what do you do for the other 79 mins? you run your guts out, support the bloke with the ball, you man up and you defend like your life depends on it! edit: ok so my question was rhetorical.

Nice report So39. I went down for a look this morning. First time so I can't compare it to previous sessions, but I'll add a couple of random observations. -Loved the amount of physical stuff going on. Plenty of body contact and pressure during the drills. Players were sheparding for each other and looking to make space, basic stuff but we've been horrible at it the last few years. Late in the session Frawley and Clark had a bit of a wrestle. Clark had been killing Sellars in a drill where they'd burst from the goalsquare while one of the coaches kicked it in from CHF. Sellars took a knock and went off for a bit and Chippa moved onto Clark and started to bump him off the ball. After one or two Clark responded and before long they had each other by the scruff of the neck and were going at it about as hard as you can in modern footy. By the end of it a shredded orange vest lay on the ground but I couldn't remember who had been wearing it. Loved this from our big bloke bookends, neither will take a backward step. -Bartram and Tapscott couldn't be far off the main group, they were very strong in their running and were told to ease up a bit more than once, Jurrah looked to be struggling a bit with the running but they did a lot of it. I think he'll be pleasantly surprised by what he's able to do in games with his increased fitness. Jack Viney looks physically ready to play AFL now, his biceps are thicker than my thighs were at 17. -Clark is excactly what our forward line needed. His body work was excellent today. He was consistently able to push off his opponent and get a few yards on the lead against everyone but Frawley. Chippa gave him a much tougher contest. -Plenty of blokes out there looking fitter than they've ever been. Gys looked fine to me, was still pushing hard late in the session and his face was barely pink. Bate's transformation is signifigant, completely different body shape. Howe is cut, don't know if he's any bigger but I'd guess his skin folds are down considerably. It's finally starting to look like there's more men out there than boys.

Totally agree

Your entitled to your opinion TimD but I have to say I couldn't disagree with you more. Cast your memory back to June 2008 & this club was on its knees again. The AFL told us that the club stood for nothing, we were 5-6mil in dept & the likelihood of survival IMO was pretty slim. It took a lot of balls for Jim to step up to the plate & put the club ahead of himself. Whilst Jim couldn't have achieved what he has without the people you speak of, would those people be doing the work they are without Jim putting them there to do that work? There is no way anyone else could have revolutionized this club to its current form the way Jim has. No other person would have had the ability to unite a club & get us all moving together in the one direction. No other person associated with the club had the vision, leadership & influence to right the sinking ship.

North Melbourne wont mind if it's Carey or Stevens .

What happens if you F/S somebody and then it turns out via DNA test that they weren't actually fathered by the 100+ game player? Work that out AFL. Even better if the kid turns out to be fathered by a player from another team.

You make some very good points and I think this debate cries out for its own separate thread and with the use of discretion in the way the debate is conducted rather than here where there is an element of muckraking and bravado from posters with various agendas for and against the individuals involved. FWIW, I think it's fair to say that a dying man is still capable of making good and bad decisions and that whilst Jimmy didn't handle the football director post well, leading us to the disaster of late July, it was he who asked for and persuaded Garry to step in and that was a good decision for which most of us are now thankful. The decision has now been apparently made that Greg Healy is to come on board as Football Director with Neil Craig reporting to the board on football matters. Time will tell if that eventuates and whether it works out well for the club. In the meantime, and with thanks to Garry, Don McLardy, Cameron Schab and others, Jimmy can go back to being the chairman in a low key way and concentrate on his health issues at the same time. Most (good) club chairman are usually pretty anonymous in what they do and it's only a few of the more vocal ones that we ever get to hear from. Good clubs act together in the way a good team should. It's not just about one man and I reckon 99% of the football public wouldn't know the name of the chairman of Geelong or most of the other clubs. Give me an ill Jimmy with a supportive board, administration and functioning football department over an allegedly healthy in mind and body Jeff Kennett any time.

This thread started out congratulating and commending a job well done to Garry Lyon and has turned into a scathing attack and load of accusations about his motives and why won't he commit to the club. Then some of you decide to put the boot into Jimmy and suggest that he should step down or forced off because he is not able to do the job. One poster even suggested that empathy for someone should not come at the price of your values. Apparently you would be lying to yourself and them, but to me that statement only means your lying about the fact you have empathy at all. To me its like premising everything with "No offence but..." Either you feel empathy for some one or you don't. Don't hide your lack of empathy behind misplaced values and what you perceive is best for the club. Furthermore the Chairperson and the role of the chairperson is a figurehead in most ways, The running of the club administratively is run by the CEO and the Football department is now being run by Neil Craig with both area's reporting to the Board as a whole. Jimmy is not a dictator the Chairperson's power and influences stem from the boards support and the rule set out by the Club. Jimmy unwell is still able to assist the club , as Jimmy also has his persona, integrity and the networks he has built and forged in Melbourne both inside and outside of football. These are what he has used in the improvement of the club off field. Kick him out and see what happens to the people Jimmy has influenced in his life. Finally, what value do people think would be displayed by this club if it asked Jimmy to step down? If Jimmy said tomorrow he would step down then so be it, but to suggest we should ask him to step down, that would be a deplorable and cut throat act.

Three days ago I wrote that I thought Garry Lyon had done a wonderful job. On reflection, after reading through this thread one more time, I think I might have underestimated his contribution. I wasn't previously aware, but accept the word of those who claim that in the aftermath of the Geelong game, Lyon convinced the Board that the proper course was to retain Cameron Schwab as CEO and to terminate Dean Bailey's contract as coach. In other words, Garry intervened to put the case for Schwab and against Bailey to the key personnel on the Board on that fateful Sunday after the Geelong game. It's not clear whether or not he was invited to do so but he convinced enough of them to take the tough decisions which, given the accolades now being heaped on Schwab and the almost universal view that Bailey had to go sometime soon, then the outcome has been to the club's benefit notwithstanding that it might have been carried out clumsily and poorly. Such a conclusion will inevitably lead to argument about whether the end is justified by the means and, as we've already seen, the historians and revisionists on this site have already joined in the rush to judgement. Was Lyon entitled to enter into the "inner sanctum" and offer his advice on the coaching position? I think one could mount a strong argument in his favour whether he was invited to do so or not. Lyon is a friend of Stynes, a former captain, club champion who played in excess of 200 games. In 2007, the previous board invited him to take part in the selection process to recommend a new coach after Neale Daniher. On Footy Classified he had expressed the view that he wouldn't relish being involved in such a process again. His views as to whether Bailey had lived up to his expectations would have been relevant and valuable to Board members in their deliberations at a time when the club was in crisis. Some might have a problem with that but I don't - we keep getting reminded that the club deliberately tanked for draft choices and handled the dismissal of a former captain poorly. We even once unceremoniously boned a club president in mid-term who had kicked $2.7m into the club. Compared to that where is the problem with taking advice from a former club icon at a time of crisis? Was the club placed at a disadvantage in doing so? But that's not all. The fact that every man and his dog seems to know that Garry was definitely involved somehow in the process that led to the decisions of 31 July 2011 is a prime example of the insidious process of information being leaked from the board - something that has been systemic at this club since the 60s. The failure to keep things "in house" is generally indicative of an organisation that is run poorly and it doesn't give me much pleasure to say this but over the years we've had many boards and administrations that have been poorly run and some were totally dysfunctional. And guess what? During those 5½ months with Lyon in charge, the decisions taken were, by and large, announced by the club without prior leaks to the media. A number of the appointments caught the media by surprise. Lyon was honest and transparent when questioned by the media but never gave them too much. He said we weren't after Ross Lyon and we weren't but the media continued to speculate. They got most of it wrong. Garry and co got things right. After all this time I consider this to be a breath of fresh air for the club. Garry's livelihood is in the media where he is a bit of a megastar and prime property for the 9 network. Can we begrudge him the right to an income at his time of life when he has three kids and family matters to address? Not everyone's an Eddie McGuire! So I'll say again that we owe a great debt to Garry, Don, Cam and Jimmy for the inspiration behind the last half year. But they're not gods. However, that these guys have achieved so much in such a short time and yet, there are those out there wringing their hands and angry about some perceived injustices which might well be grounded in the fertile imaginations of some mischief makers suggests to me that some of our supporters need to follow the lead of our new coach and the playing group and harden up.

Im still in. Total score - 43566 ( but in my defense, I'm a moron)

He shouts a lot at training and has a prestigious blog, sir.

That's very flattering, RR. I appreciate it.

A senior coach relies on 2 people the most - Recruiter and fitness man. I actually called this many months ago in trade week when I said our list decisions so far have reflected Neeld being very conservative with draft picks and not giving Prendergast too much to work with. That was reflected in the national draft and rookie draft. Maybe that is still reading too much into it but I think this would be a pretty mutual decision by both parties. I'm not sure who the number 2 recruiter at Collingwood behind Hind is but I wouldn't be surprised to see him appointed pretty shortly. Oh and the timing is perfect, this is a recruiters quietest time in the year. There are no games to watch or draft camps or drafts for months. If Neeld axed him before the drafts this year then that would have been crazy.