8 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

Goodwin had a proven track record and held a bunch of highly sought-after players together, and I was of the view that we were still only a touch away from being top-level again - as shown by us beating Brisbane in Brisbane, as well as in some other games. King comes in, and the players start marching out. I would love to see us return to the top, but we are off to a very bad start. And I will say it again: it will be awful to watch Clarrie tearing us apart for GWS or whoever. And I haven't shifted the goalposts, but if Clarrie does that, there will be many posters on here rewriting their history.

We were NOT a touch away from competing again. Sure, we beat Brisbane at home but we then proceeded to have only three wins for the rest of the year, two of which were against the worst teams of the decade to date. And our loss against St Kilda late in the year exposed how desperate we were for a new voice. Goodwin made numerous bad decisions that day (using Spargo as a sub, playing Petty forward, and putting Melksham and Pickett on the bench in the last quarter). It was obvious at that point that he was finished. He did plenty of good for the team but he had also well and truly overstayed his welcome.

As for players "marching out" when King comes in, Oliver has been a huge problem for this club for two years and King made the right move taking a tough stance on him. His lack of professionalism has put a massive spotlight on the club for all the wrong reasons. And there's literally zero evidence to suggest that Mcvee's departure is to do with King, just like there was no evidence to suggest that the departure of Jackson was to do with Goodwin. It's also worth noting that Trac's intention to leave was already brewing last year, when King had no involvement in the club.

Edited yesterday at 12:161 day by Temporarily Hopeful Demon

3 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

Here is a @Ghostwriter egg on your face type scenario.

Imagine you have a guy called Clayton Oliver.

2x AFLCA player of the year, best and fairest, all Australians, he's done it all, and this guy desperately wants to get back to his best because he feels he owes your club.

Imagine you pay that guy 700k a year to play somewhere else.

Imagine that given this guy has had no serious injuries and seemingly retained his power, he goes to this new club and does rediscover his best, and we pay a get worse in the midfield, while he dominates and makes All Australians somewhere else

I think everyone associated with the MFC would have a MASSIVE egg on their face if that happened.

They'd better be right about this.

I get what you're saying but we can't live in fear of "what if..."

We need to make our decision on what's most likely to happen.

My guess is Oliver's future ceiling is somewhere between his best and his form in 2025. For a club that needs an inside bull, that's good value for $7-800,000/yr. For us, looking to adapt our gameplan and a fresh start, ~1.5million/yr is not good value. Maybe, we can create better value for our money by paying Oliver to pay for GWS and buying draft picks or luring Humphrey on a fat contract.

(For what it's worth, if Oliver does go to GWS I genuinely wish him well and with Hogan and Bedford already there Giants would become my second team - if I allowed myself such indulgences)

11 minutes ago, Temporarily Hopeful Demon said:

We were NOT a touch away from competing again. Sure, we beat Brisbane at home but we then proceeded to have only three wins for the rest of the year, two of which were against the worst teams of the decade to date. And our loss against St Kilda late in the year exposed how desperate we were for a new voice. Goodwin made numerous bad decisions that day (using Spargo as a sub, playing Petty forward, and putting Melksham and Pickett on the bench in the last quarter). It was obvious at that point that he was finished. He did plenty of good for the team but he had also well and truly overstayed his welcome.

As for players "marching out" when King comes in, Oliver has been a huge problem for this club for two years and King made the right move taking a tough stance on him. His lack of professionalism has put a massive spotlight on the club for all the wrong reasons. And there's literally zero evidence to suggest that Mcvee's departure is to do with King, just like there was no evidence to suggest that the departure of Jackson was to do with Goodwin. It's also worth noting that Trac's intention to leave was already brewing last year, when King had no involvement in the club.

As Steven King said in his SEN interview the week, the modern game is about margins and as King said, we had more than a handful of losses by a kick.

So yes, we were a touch away.

But the team King looks like having will be quite different to the Trac and Clarry team of 2025.

1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

As Steven King said in his SEN interview the week, the modern game is about margins and as King said, we had more than a handful of losses by a kick.

So yes, we were a touch away.

But the team King looks like having will be quite different to the Trac and Clarry team of 2025.

Correct and it makes the fascinating case study of how to approach a modern regeneration.

the saints have gone with a 5.1 million dollar spending spree to top up their list

We’ve gone the other way with a 3.2-4.3 million dollar salary dumping process and the step back to go forward approach.

It’ll be really interesting to check back in 5 years and see which worked and which didn’t

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

Edited yesterday at 12:561 day by picket fence

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

We can't really know how much thought King gave Oliver's future role before Oliver's exit interview. I can't recall whether King attended such interview.

However, be of good heart, it is firstly up to Oliver whether he stays or goes.

It is the dog wagging the tail if he gets to demand to keep his old role. We may second-guess the expert appointed to the role (i.e. King) but Oliver is paid a bewildering amount of dollars to accept. He can always retire but what other trick does the pony have.

12 hours ago, 48 Year Now said:

not buying this shallow draft story. Good recruiting will find a future star who has the right attitude and development in them.

MFC found Langford at 6 with a immediate impact in his rookie year like, you know, that no.13 who used to play for Melbourne. Pick 11, Lindsay, shaded Langford until he was injured.

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

Pickett stick with me and Dees and we will both enjoy the climb back to the top and then along with Ghosty, we can spray perfume on each other and I can watch you two scoff scotch, while I have a Kahlua enjoying our latest flag.

6 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Who from the club has said that we will pay $700K to take Clarry?

Jeff.

7 hours ago, picket fence said:

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

Probably on advice of staff. Oliver is a difficult case to handle. Perhaps the frustration from all in dealing with him means it is better to push him on. Probably a win for both sides.

8 hours ago, picket fence said:

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

You were banging on about Goodwin being useless & now you’re banging on about King before he’s coached a game, you will never be pleased unless you’re whinging

This is fun.. eh ..

I love Clayton. But we are paying him like he is a top 10 player in the league. And right now he’d be lucky to scrape into the top 100. For him to get even close to that player Again he’s going to need a Petracca type pre season, not a Clarry preseason. Has he got it in him to fully commit to being the type of athlete that’s worthy of that pay cheque again? It seems a resounding no.

8 hours ago, picket fence said:

KING has NOT given Clayton Oliver a moment of his time it seems... its his way or the highway, this bullsheit about fitting into a new style is SHHEEIT. CLAYTON OLIVER is the most majestic of extractors of the footy EVER! King won't even give one of the greatest Dees players ever JUST ONE SEASON in his plans

HNMM dont like it at all in fact HATE IT! Seriously am finding it hard going supporting the Dees at this stage!

Relax a bit PF. You said 'it seems' but react as if 'it' is 100% true. Explode as much as you like if it turns out to be true.

My somewhat optimistic view of Clarry’s future would appear a tad unrealistic now.

Sees his time out with the Dees, content with his at least 2 premierships and being one of the best ever in red and blue. Reunites with Soph (or other country lass), retires to his newly purchased farm, has the kids he loves being around and hosts the ex players once a year where he, Petts and Chin battle it out in the haybale throwing comp.

Have a good life Clarry, no matter what transpires from here, you brought hope to us supporters starting from your debut game on.

Yeh, yeh, I know, sunshine, rainbows and unicorns!

I feel like of all our players Oliver should be afforded the benefit of the doubt with our new coach and system, yes he has his demons but do the right thing by him please he sounds like he's been trying his butt off to do the right thing by us for a while now and he seems really invested.

Not everyone is the same, nor smooth sailing, but someone like him deserves a go to prove himself again after what he's given. Yes pay is an issue, but give the guy a go under the new regime don't just sweep him off. Seems more than a tad insensitive by the MFC.

4 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

I feel like of all our players Oliver should be afforded the benefit of the doubt with our new coach and system, yes he has his demons but do the right thing by him please he sounds like he's been trying his butt off to do the right thing by us for a while now and he seems really invested.

Not everyone is the same, nor smooth sailing, but someone like him deserves a go to prove himself again after what he's given. Yes pay is an issue, but give the guy a go under the new regime don't just sweep him off. Seems more than a tad insensitive by the MFC.

Im very much caught between roads of thought about #13

I do wish him well but I think as the old adage goes about square pegs and round holes he now finds himself outside of the parameters King is setting for us.

He might not be gone ...but he might be going.

Bitter-sweet.

As Mr Smith once suggested.."I'm a Melbourne man"

Im just hoping for what's best for us.

Certainly adds context to getting King hit

There are lot of things I don't agree with Picket Fence about, but I am completely with him on the subject of Clayton Oliver. One of the very greatest MFC players ever, has had problems in the last two years but his attitude looked to be right back on track, and as for the complaints about his disposal: the first thing you need is someone to GET the footy, and he has no peer at that when he is on song. He deserves AT LEAST another season and he deserves our undying respect.

16 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im very much caught between roads of thought about #13

I do wish him well but I think as the old adage goes about square pegs and round holes he now finds himself outside of the parameters King is setting for us.

He might not be gone ...but he might be going.

Bitter-sweet.

As Mr Smith once suggested.."I'm a Melbourne man"

Im just hoping for what's best for us.

Certainly adds context to getting King hit

How would Geelong Bayley Smith fit into this new governance, one wonders.

18 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im very much caught between roads of thought about #13

I do wish him well but I think as the old adage goes about square pegs and round holes he now finds himself outside of the parameters King is setting for us.

He might not be gone ...but he might be going.

Bitter-sweet.

As Mr Smith once suggested.."I'm a Melbourne man"

Im just hoping for what's best for us.

Certainly adds context to getting King hit

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by bush demon
Duplicated post

1 minute ago, bush demon said:

How would Geelong Bayley Smith fit into this new governance, one wonders.

How would Geelong new-boy Bayley Smith fit into this no DH policy, one wonders.

I dunno

I dunno

Jokes aside im not sure this is so much about DH'ness as professionalism and attitude to roles.

Im guessing i admit.

How are you guys still going on about this.

We all love Oliver for what he has done and what he was. Petracca likewise.

But we've been bottom 4/6 last two years with them here. Nothing is going to change even with a new coach.

Whether they go elsewhere and dominate is totally irrelevant. The question is whether they'd do that again for us ...and they won't. Far too entrenched, top comfortable, too entitled.

Just try for a moment and look at the club objectively. No one's taking that flag or the YouTube videos away from us. You can always watch it back.

Can't stand the histrionics

22 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

But how do you know he wouldn’t accept playing in any other position? I personally believe he’d be open to changing roles. I also believe he’d even play for Casey if it came to that. Point is, he wants to remain a Demon above anything else.

Imo the only “damage” done by King et al is how they’ve made Clarrie feel. They’ve obviously - and probably unintentionally - made him feel he’s not wanted. This may not affect other players to a great extent but it certainly does with Clarrie. This shouldn’t be dismissed nor even underestimated.

What worries me is the timing of this: we no longer have Stephen Rendall (former club psychologist) and his position is still being advertised so we can only assume we don’t have anyone to replace him as yet. And of course we no longer have Goody, another integral part of Clarrie’s mental well-being.

good to hear from you my little sheet rack

I cant deny that tough decisions need to be made and maybe the decision to move Oliver on is the right one. But......it's how you do it that impacts club culture. At the moment every player is watching a true club mega champion (his awards support that) being tossed out like he's garbage. He's right to feel insulted and disrespected. If I was a current player I'd be asking myself whether I want to be part of a club that treats its champions that way. I'm not questioning the outcome, I'm questioning the process and the optics. Its very ugly.

I’d be happy to give pick 23 to any club willing to pick up his entire contract

4 hours ago, Young Angus said:

I feel like of all our players Oliver should be afforded the benefit of the doubt with our new coach and system, yes he has his demons but do the right thing by him please he sounds like he's been trying his butt off to do the right thing by us for a while now and he seems really invested.

Not everyone is the same, nor smooth sailing, but someone like him deserves a go to prove himself again after what he's given. Yes pay is an issue, but give the guy a go under the new regime don't just sweep him off. Seems more than a tad insensitive by the MFC.

Really agree with this. Petracca can go and do OK with his and his family's life after footy. But maybe Oliver cannot. They would both know however that they have let themselves down somewhat, and this is where the appropriate connections need to be there.