3 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Not sure straight sets exit is enough to not renew a contract just two years after a premiership but we may need to agree to disagree on that point.

But OK, let's say the Board delayed renewal into 2024.

Goodwin had introduced the 'transition' game plan with which we had reasonable results: at round 11 we were 7/4 sitting 4th with a healthy 116.9% heading for finals. Couldn't ask for more than that.

To not have renewed his contract by this point would have been very irresponsible.

No one could have predicted the downward spiral in the second half of the year.

The board didn't have to wait until 2024, they just needed to see out the finals. Melbourne is the only team to finish top 4 in consecutive regular season and lose all finals games.

The knock on the contract isn't the length per se but that it was a guaranteed contract.

38 minutes ago, binman said:

That's where we differ doc.

I see the logic in sacking Goody, will back in whoever they choose, but imo there simply is not enough evidence to assess whether it was a mistake or not.

We will only know the answer to that question in the fullness of time.

Without trying to be a pedant. I see two issue not necessarily either depending on the other for evaluation.

Was it correct to end Simon's tenure ?

Will the incoming be successful ?

One only comes about because of the prior, granted but the value as such is not dependent.

It's entirely possible a new coach may not bring success but in so that can't suggest the previous would have.

Both events need evaluation on their own merit surely.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by beelzebub

1 hour ago, Redlagged said:

A bit of a mess? Under Green's watch the club made a meal of the chief executive appt, made a meal of the Goodwin sacking and Green is now making a complete botch of the handover. Plus he can hardly string two coherent words together. The press conference with Goodwin was embarrassing. He made Goodwin look articulate.

Couldn't agree more Green completely out of his depth and he lacks Gravitas. The club needs to get tis off season right. Its looking like an amateur hour show at the moment

other members need to tap him on the shoulder an move him away

4 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Regardless of Goodwin's results since the contract renewal or results by his successor there is no way the renewal was a mistake.

It was renewed in August '23 after Premiership, 2nd and 4th results. It would expire in '24. There is no way a sane Board would allow that coach to enter 2024 without an ongoing contract. There was no basis to not renew it.

Also, in his 2022 contract he left money on the table to not blow the covid soft cap or have to reduce FD staff. The latest contract gave that money back to him, hence the $1m payout.

That contract was thoroughly deserved and people who lament the $1m payout could reflect on the circumstances.

That the Board renewed it in two year chunks is very responsible.

Good points, well made.

41 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

imv we won't ever know if the sacking was a mistake. And, the results/success of the next coach are independent of the past.

The next coach will be hamstrung for at least the first season because of soft cap limiting assistant coaching/FD changes and contracts limiting list management decisions.

And how would his success be measured.

• Finals

• Reversing this trend.

• 

• Win more close games.

• Scoring efficiency

• Play 4 quarters.

• etc

I am quietly confident we can make finals next year even tho finals are getting harder; this year 15 wins are needed.

imv the critical thing is reversing the trend so winning 13 games and a % greater than 100 will be a success for the new coach.

Regardless, it doesn't say anything about sacking Goodwin being a mistake nor does it say Goodwin could or could not have achieved the same results.

Time to move on.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by Lucifers Hero

20 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

You might have mentioned this elsewhere - apologies if this comes across as a lazy question: what do you like about Buckley?

I've always admired him as a player and coach. Not dissimilar to Goody when we brought him across.

It's not about whether I like him or not. My perspective on it comes from what I think is best for this current group of players.

And I think Buckley of all prospective coaches could get the biggest spike from our senior group. That's for a number of reasons, a lesser one including the fact that Fritsch and Trac were both mad Collingwood supporters growing up.

I think having a coach who holds court, has big aura and gravitas will mean that senior players will be much more inclined to step in line, want to earn respect and naturally standards will lift. Whether one believes it or not, psychologically there is a lift when you bring a head coach in with aura.

What's equally as important are the types of line coaches we bring in. We have clearly been left wanting in that area over the last few years. It's another reason where I think standards have slipped.

It all got just way too matesie under Goody toward the end. Accountability was just not there as was evidenced by selection, underperforming players continuing to play at senior level and not much change positionally speaking which clearly led to a plateau for a number of players.

There are so many reasons why I think Buckley is the right guy but as I said, I think equally important will be the rest of the coaching group. As for game-plan and the idea that Buckley is 'past' it. I just think it's a furphy. You listened to him speak, he is on so many footy programs and he is completely up to date with the current trends of AFL footy. It's as if some think he's been on a different sport this entire time.

And lastly, for those that are fearful of the statistics around second-time coaches becoming premiership coaches, I'll ask you this question.

Why are you following the MFC if statistics for success are going to drive whether or not you'll jump on board?!

47 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So a hypothetical. If we continued with our win loss trajectory for 2026, what position would the club be in?

I suspect the Board said 'we cant afford that with the current list we have. And we cant sit here and do nothing and lose sponsors, supporters and probably players. As well we won't attract all of he above if it continues'

The Board has access to way more info than we have. They know exactly what parameters were put on Simon, exactly what he had committed to delivering, exactly what the commercial issues were including terrible fixtures and TV coverage and falling membership. They would have received lots of feedback from players, supporters etc.

You have to give them some credit. Doing nothing was not an option.

You have argued that our game style was evolving but it was still a disaster. Basic problems like 666 infringements, 50m penalties, last 2 minute drills, losing close games, fwd connection, selection integrity, poor kicking were getting worse not better

It seems to me that Simon had his own vision of what he wanted to play like and relentlessly focused on that. Hence the disaster in the last qtr of the St Kilda game where he appeared incapable of making any changes.

I can see why he wasn't not necessarily focused on the immediate W/L for the good of the long term but he had been there 9 years and this was a premiership list.

A coach has to balance the short term with long term when managing the game plan and players. Not easy.

But to me Simon seemed to sacrifice the short term W/L on the alter of being stubborn about his decisions like Petty playing fwd. Our by having Viney tracc and Oliver in the centre despite stating he wld run other players through there like rivers, Langdon, Bowey etc.

We lost a lot of games in the last few years because he refused to change things until it was too late Like petty being moved in the last 2 minutes of the Brisbane finals game

The club has moved on. Great i say

Get behind them. Go Dees

As I have said I see the logic of the board's decision - and God knows I've read enough posts on Demonland over the last two seasons with all the reasons why people think goody was not the right guy and should be moved on.

I disagree with many of those arguments but again I get the logic for making a change and will fully back and support whoever they decide will be the new coach.

Like Goody, I respect the board's right to make that call and sincerely hope that it proves to be the right decision.

Another hypothetical.

We appoint Buckley - and by the by I really hope we do as I think he us an excellent candidate. Buck says in his first presser that he has taken the job because he thinks we can win a flag in the near future, expects to be competitive from the get go and believe we can make finals in 2026.

Bur instead his message doesn't land, his game plan doesn't work and we win fewer games and finish 2026 near the bottom of the ladder.

Is sacking Goody still the right call?

Edited 21 hours ago21 hr by binman

2 minutes ago, binman said:

As I have said I see the logic of the board's decision - and God knows I've read enough posts on Demonland over the last two seasons with all the reasons why people think goody was not the right guy and should be moved on.

I disagree with many of those arguments but again I get the logic for making a change and will fully back and support whoever they decide will be the new coach.

Like Goody, I respect the board's right to make that call and sincerely hope that it proves to be the right decision.

Another hypothetical.

We appoint Buckley - and by the by I really hope we do as I think he us an excellent candidate. Buck says in his first presser that he has taken the job because he thinks we can win a flag in the near future, expects to be competitive from the get go and believe we can make finals in 2026.

Bur instead his message doesn't land, his game plan doesn't work and we win fewer games and finish 2026 near the bottom of the ladder.

Is sacking Goody still the right call?

May I ask... and with respectful curiosity, what is, as you understand, the logic ? ( for Board to invoke change )

Genuinely interested..

More of the same from Caroline Wilson. But there are details in the description of what happened in Goodwins kitchen that make me wonder just who would know that level of detail and be talking to the press

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/awkward-scenes-in-simon-goodwin-s-kitchen-and-a-power-play-in-the-boardroom-20250815-p5mn6a.html

5 minutes ago, binman said:

As I have said I see the logic of the board's decision - and God knows I've read enough posts on Demonland over the last two seasons with all the reasons why people think goody was not the right guy and should be moved on.

I disagree with many of those arguments but again I get the logic for making a change and will fully back and support whoever they decide will be the new coach.

Like Goody, I respect the board's right to make that call and sincerely hope that it proves to be the right decision.

Another hypothetical.

We appoint Buckley - and by the by I really hope we do as I think he us an excellent candidate. Buck says in his first presser that he has taken the job because he thinks we can win a flag in the near future, expects to be competitive from the get go and believe we can make finals in 2026.

Bur instead his message doesn't land, his game plan doesn't work and we win fewer games and finish 2026 near the bottom of the ladder.

Is sacking Goody still the right call?

Yes. I believe the decision to sack Goody was not based on what a new coach might achieve, it’s based on what our old coach didn’t. It’s like others have said ( @Lucifers Hero ) they are independent decisions.

So [censored] sick of this:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/awkward-scenes-in-simon-goodwin-s-kitchen-and-a-power-play-in-the-boardroom-20250815-p5mn6a.html

Either more muckraking or more instability. Take your pick!

Perhaps we can narrow down who's leaking.

12 minutes ago, binman said:

As I have said I see the logic of the board's decision - and God knows I've read enough posts on Demonland over the last two seasons with all the reasons why people think goody was not the right guy and should be moved on.

I disagree with many of those arguments but again I get the logic for making a change and will fully back and support whoever they decide will be the new coach.

Like Goody, I respect the board's right to make that call and sincerely hope that it proves to be the right decision.

Another hypothetical.

We appoint Buckley - and by the by I really hope we do as I think he us an excellent candidate. Buck says in his first presser that he has taken the job because he thinks we can win a flag in the near future, expects to be competitive from the get go and believe we can make finals in 2026.

Bur instead his message doesn't land, his game plan doesn't work and we win fewer games and finish 2026 near the bottom of the ladder.

Is sacking Goody still the right call?

I'll answer.

Yes.

1 hour ago, binman said:

That's where we differ doc.

I see the logic in sacking Goody, will back in whoever they choose, but imo there simply is not enough evidence to assess whether it was a mistake or not.

We will only know the answer to that question in the fullness of time.

Isn't that true of every decision we make.

6 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

More of the same from Caroline Wilson. But there are details in the description of what happened in Goodwins kitchen that make me wonder just who would know that level of detail and be talking to the press

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/awkward-scenes-in-simon-goodwin-s-kitchen-and-a-power-play-in-the-boardroom-20250815-p5mn6a.html

Paywall. Can a good Samaritan summarise please

Caro is starting to get tedious

one relevant bit:

Green and fellow director Angela Williams remained in the Goodwin kitchen for only a matter of minutes before being asked to leave by the sacked coach, who had sent his children to their bedrooms to avoid any awkward scenes.

Football director Alan Richardson and acting chief executive David Chippindall stayed around a little longer before Goodwin asked to be left alone with his family.

It suggests that Green wants to hold onto the gig even though Smith has returned home.

Suggests Green acted on Goodwin deliberately before Smith got home.

Implies that Smith came home to assume the presidency and that Green doesn't want to give it up until December - but is happy to give it up then as planned.

States that Green, Agela Williams, Richardson and Chippindall went to tell Goody and that Green and Williams were asked to leave after a few minutes, but the others stayed longer. They were then asked to leave as Goodwin wanted to be just with his family.

11 minutes ago, sue said:

Isn't that true of every decision we make.

The voracity of the decision....perhaps.

The logic of the decision at the time... arguably apparent and sound at that time.

16 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

More of the same from Caroline Wilson. But there are details in the description of what happened in Goodwins kitchen that make me wonder just who would know that level of detail and be talking to the press

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/awkward-scenes-in-simon-goodwin-s-kitchen-and-a-power-play-in-the-boardroom-20250815-p5mn6a.html

🥴

It was Guerra who pushed for Jobe Watson to join the coach-search panel, where he will sit alongside Melbourne Storm’s Frank Ponissi with Richardson, the only member boasting coaching experience

Caro trying to turn Buckley off us so he can go coach for her bestie Gale at Tassie.

I don’t mind her but in this case she’s just trying to advance her own agenda.

2 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

It suggests that Green wants to hold onto the gig even though Smith has returned home.

Suggests Green acted on Goodwin deliberately before Smith got home.

Implies that Smith came home to assume the presidency and that Green doesn't want to give it up until December - but is happy to give it up then as planned.

States that Green, Agela Williams, Richardson and Chippindall went to tell Goody and that Green and Williams were asked to leave after a few minutes, but the others stayed longer. They were then asked to leave as Goodwin wanted to be just with his family.

She doesn't like Brad does she 😉

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

She doesn't like Brad does she 😉

Or Melbourne

Just now, Jaded No More said:

Caro trying to turn Buckley off us so he can go coach for her bestie Gale at Tassie.

I don’t mind her but in this case she’s just trying to advance her own agenda.

Caroline Wilson .... agendas/r/us

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

She doesn't like Brad does she 😉

He's an easy target, admittedly. So is the club. Bit wouldn't it be nice for the MFC, just once, to offer some clarity and certainty to the supporters, who are sick of the [censored] bickering and gameplaying, real or perceived.

IMO she also intentionally or otherwise puts Goodwin in the frame for leaking in the article