2 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

For at least two years Goody has been working with the FD to evolve the team and game style to compete in the current game. This is a complex combination of recruiting better ball users, more speed and adjusting our game style to embrace a quicker and more offensive style. For all of these changes, i believe Goody is correct and while the implementation has had issues (i.e. the back off this evolution mid-last season dues to injuries and effect issues) we don't have a choice but to continue to evolve the team and style as the game has evolved.

The challenge with Trac and Clarry (and JV) making up the core of our midfield is that all three are great in contest but not great ball user nor quick of foot. Plus that have been slow to evolve their games. Yet these three were instrumental to our 21 success, are on long term contracts and in peak form are match winners.

The introduction (and re-signing for 9 year) of Kozzie into more midfield time is a big piece in changing our midfield set up as Kozzie is both quick and good by hand and foot. The recruitment of and quality of Langford is another midfield option, with others, such as Windsor, Lindsay, McVee, even Bowser as potential HBF and wing ball deliverers may also reduce the need for Trac and Clarry (and JV) to become what they're not...

My point being that moving one of Trac and Clarry (and JV) out of the club is dependent on what we have to replace them in that role and position. They all keeps getting games in the middle because none of the other players at the MFC are pushing them out.

So perhaps the better question is who would replace Trac and Clarry (and JV) in the midfield and would it make us a better team thats more likely to win our next flag?

Because to exit one of Trac and Clarry (and JV) prior to having several solid answers to that question would be a poor outcome.

I think Trac should become almost a full time forward, at least with a 70/30 split forward to mid.

Clarry at his best is a gun midfielder, even with his disposal issues, so the hope would be he gets to his best.

Viney will just need to work on becoming the best pressure forward he can, or even potentially could he be used as a lockdown small defender?

So my view assuming they all stay is - Trac forward, Viney forward or back and Clarry stays in the middle assuming he gets himself fitter.

The one I'm really unsure of his Sparrow, who I feel should be pushed out of the best 22 ASAP. He doesn't have any real weapons as a forward or mid and seems to similar to those other 3.

Edited July 2Jul 2 by DistrACTION Jackson

24 minutes ago, picket fence said:

We havent made the finals for two years and were inglorious in 22 and 23. On what basis (other than contract) should he be kept in 26??

We've reverted game style and as we saw with 2019-2020, it can take time to click.

Our zone last week was all over the place, for most of the game, which suggests we're having teething issuss with that. The wingers often get caught no man's land (ie Langford and Lindsay).

No doubt you'll disagree, Picket.

9 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

For at least two years Goody has been working with the FD to evolve the team and game style to compete in the current game. This is a complex combination of recruiting better ball users, more speed and adjusting our game style to embrace a quicker and more offensive style. For all of these changes, i believe Goody is correct and while the implementation has had issues (i.e. the back off this evolution mid-last season dues to injuries and effect issues) we don't have a choice but to continue to evolve the team and style as the game has evolved.

The challenge with Trac and Clarry (and JV) making up the core of our midfield is that all three are great in contest but not great ball user nor quick of foot. Plus that have been slow to evolve their games. Yet these three were instrumental to our 21 success, are on long term contracts and in peak form are match winners.

The introduction (and re-signing for 9 year) of Kozzie into more midfield time is a big piece in changing our midfield set up as Kozzie is both quick and good by hand and foot. The recruitment of and quality of Langford is another midfield option, with others, such as Windsor, Lindsay, McVee, even Bowser as potential HBF and wing ball deliverers may also reduce the need for Trac and Clarry (and JV) to become what they're not...

My point being that moving one of Trac and Clarry (and JV) out of the club is dependent on what we have to replace them in that role and position. They all keeps getting games in the middle because none of the other players at the MFC are pushing them out.

So perhaps the better question is who would replace Trac and Clarry (and JV) in the midfield and would it make us a better team thats more likely to win our next flag?

Because to exit one of Trac and Clarry (and JV) prior to having several solid answers to that question would be a poor outcome.

Very good post, I think Trac needs to be played a lot more as a forward, under no circumstances would I have all 3 at a CBD.

Goody is at a crossroads where his loyalty to these players is impacting the game plan. When we were showing good signs either Viney or Oliver were missing and it was very obvious how both Clarry and Trac were looking to handball to the runner as opposed to bombing long.

With finals gone Goodwin needs to continue with the evolving game plan, no matter who the players are who won’t buy in move passed them. Play Rivers in the middle with Kossie and one of Trac/Oliver/Viney. Try Lindsay in there Mcvee, Bowey, Langford or Windsor in there for short stints. You never know what you will find.

He might appear settled but if we tried to move Trac into a predominantly impact forward role at this stage of his career I think he absolutely would look to move again.

However, if we did want to push him out the door without stating we’re looking to shop him this would be a way to do it.

13 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

He is a fantastic coach, but old mate Swyl would have sacked him after the straight sets loss in 2014 and not even making finals in 2015.

We’re a very different beast to Geelong though. I’m undecided on Goodwin as it stands, my mind will be likely swayed by the way we finish the season.

Whatever the outcome not just changing the coach is needed, big decisions need to be made, Clarry is a constant distraction and whilst he’s been an absolute star a change IMO would be good for both parties and Fritsch also needs to go

I'm undecided as well. I'm also willing to admit that I don't have to love whatever decision is made for it to be the correct one, the people closest will have the best info.

We can't be pointing to one thing, it quite complex the situation we have gotten ourselves into. Whether it's coaching, list management, fitness, culture I don't think any of these areas have been functioning at the elite level.

Time will tell, I just hope we can get a few wins and show some kind of development in the game style.

Edited July 2Jul 2 by layzie

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

We've reverted game style and as we saw with 2019-2020, it can take time to click.

Our zone last week was all over the place, for most of the game, which suggests we're having teething issuss with that. The wingers often get caught no man's land (ie Langford and Lindsay).

No doubt you'll disagree, Picket.

Add Chandler to the no man's land

I keep hearing "when Oliver gets fit "

He had his problems at the start of 24, we are now 1/2 way through 25, 18 months and 1 full pre-season and a professional footballer is still not up to elite football fitness ??

Time for Goodwin to harden up and make big call, otherwise the club should step in and make hard call on both.

2 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I think Trac should become almost a full time forward, at least with a 70/30 split forward to mid.

Clarry at his best is a gun midfielder, even with his disposal issues, so the hope would be he gets to his best.

Viney will just need to work on becoming the best pressure forward he can, or even potentially could he be used as a lockdown small defender?

So my view assuming they all stay is - Trac forward, Viney forward or back and Clarry stays in the middle assuming he gets himself fitter.

The one I'm really unsure of his Sparrow, who I feel should be pushed out of the best 22 ASAP. He doesn't have any real weapons as a forward or mid and seems to similar to those other 3.

Hey Action, I’m very underwhelmed by Trac as a forward and think he’s a better ruck over than forward, as he’s built for contest, bullocking and basketballesque manouvering. I wince when Trac has set shots, and he often sprays when on the run. I’d have Trac 70/30 mid/forward.

The questions of how to best balance our mids is challenging as a midfield of Trac, Clarry and Jack needs to be unwound to give Kozzie, Rivers, Langford and others (ie Lindsay) more time in the middle. But only Kozzie of that new group can demand time in the middle, and given Kozzies forward work that then robs our forward line.

Unravelling and rebuilding these issues are underway, and I’m confident Goody is up to it.

Edited July 2Jul 2 by PaulRB

A range of challenges. I certainky agree we need a more dynamic, diverse centre bounce crew. Viney, Trac and Oliver should never appear together and there should only ever be one of them in there at any time, IMV.

Kozzy has been a revelation and Rivers should be in there a lot more than he has. Langford is starting to get a taste and will be a good option long term. Beyond that we're looking a little thin, possibly Kolt, longer term?

That said, Viney's presence in the middle after quarter time on Saturday was one of the main factors that got us back into the game 🤷

3 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We've reverted game style and as we saw with 2019-2020, it can take time to click.

Our zone last week was all over the place, for most of the game, which suggests we're having teething issuss with that. The wingers often get caught no man's land (ie Langford and Lindsay).

No doubt you'll disagree, Picket.

Teething issues abound when teeth push through, but if you wear false teeth, then your gums are stuffed!

22 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Think about it

Geelong were up under Thompson from 2004-2010 repeated finals with a bad year in 2006 when the club stood firm when everyone wanted him Sacked

Scott took over in 2011 won a flag first year with some criticism that it wasn’t his list and he just inherited an A grade side.

You wanted Goodwin sacked after Premiership and two more finals appearances. You wanted us to appoint Yze as coach on what grounds, let me understand again he was responsible for 21 yet not responsible in any way for the straight sets losses in 22 and 23

We would have been absolutely hounded if we sacked him then, just like we would have been crucified had we let Oliver go when we signed him to a big contract in 21. I seem to recall you being one of the most vocal how bad it was that he was even being talked about as leaving. Well that in hindsight is another noose we could have done without.

He is under pressure now because of 2024 and 2025, but saying he should have been let go in 23 is absolutely ludicrous

Yes. I think Goodwin should have been terminated after losing 4 Finals on the MCG.

The writing was on the board back then and NOTHING has changed. We are still Coached in the same manner. Multiple Forward Entries (Hack and Hope) for a low percentage scoring return.

And that will continue through next year if Goodwin remains

We won the Flag in ‘21 because Burgess had the entire list Super fit, and the Players believed in themselves. We won many games kicking big scores in the 2nd Half after opponents were fatigued (broken)

Since Burgess left we have not been at that fitness level, 1-2% off, so we become fatigued.

Last year’s game against Meth Coke told the story, there was no resistance.

You probably saw it live.

A comparison between Scott and Goodwin is not warranted, Jeeelong have not bottomed out anything like the MFC.

Bad Mistake to not have a new Caching staff Round 1 2024, considering all the off field [censored] that went on during 2023.

But Goodwin was extended before the ‘23 Finals Series….

and that is where we are now

Edited July 2Jul 2 by Sir Why You Little

Where's the facepalm reaction when you need it? What twaddle.

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. I think Goodwin should have been terminated after losing 4 Finals on the MCG.

Once again, there are plenty of valid reasons (besides ordinary goal kicking) for why the 2022 and 2023 finals series ended up the way the did, the most crucial of which had absolutely zero to do with coaching.

And if you want to extend it further, in 2024 we had no Brayshaw, lost Petracca half way through the year, never had a 100% Oliver, no longer had Jordan or Harmes and were having to cover all these gaps with inexperienced 1st and 2nd year players.

Again, nothing to do with coaching.

56 minutes ago, JTR said:

Once again, there are plenty of valid reasons (besides ordinary goal kicking) for why the 2022 and 2023 finals series ended up the way the did, the most crucial of which had absolutely zero to do with coaching.

And if you want to extend it further, in 2024 we had no Brayshaw, lost Petracca half way through the year, never had a 100% Oliver, no longer had Jordan or Harmes and were having to cover all these gaps with inexperienced 1st and 2nd year players.

Again, nothing to do with coaching.

Brayshaw was a big loss, the rest was all controllable from inside, a slow continual decline…

15 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Very good post, I think Trac needs to be played a lot more as a forward, under no circumstances would I have all 3 at a CBD.

Goody is at a crossroads where his loyalty to these players is impacting the game plan. When we were showing good signs either Viney or Oliver were missing and it was very obvious how both Clarry and Trac were looking to handball to the runner as opposed to bombing long.

With finals gone Goodwin needs to continue with the evolving game plan, no matter who the players are who won’t buy in move passed them. Play Rivers in the middle with Kossie and one of Trac/Oliver/Viney. Try Lindsay in there Mcvee, Bowey, Langford or Windsor in there for short stints. You never know what you will find.

Last year they put Rivers in the middle and then tried McVee with no midfield training,why not put Rivers back in the middle(cause he doesn't man up anymore when defending) then run McVee with Bowey through there

17 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I think Trac should become almost a full time forward, at least with a 70/30 split forward to mid.

He’s a horrid finisher. Huge risk what confidence he has left plummets as we leave him in the forward line to shank snaps and 30m set shots for goal.

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. I think Goodwin should have been terminated after losing 4 Finals on the MCG.

The writing was on the board back then and NOTHING has changed. We are still Coached in the same manner. Multiple Forward Entries (Hack and Hope) for a low percentage scoring return.

And that will continue through next year if Goodwin remains

We won the Flag in ‘21 because Burgess had the entire list Super fit, and the Players believed in themselves. We won many games kicking big scores in the 2nd Half after opponents were fatigued (broken)

Since Burgess left we have not been at that fitness level, 1-2% off, so we become fatigued.

Last year’s game against Meth Coke told the story, there was no resistance.

You probably saw it live.

A comparison between Scott and Goodwin is not warranted, Jeeelong have not bottomed out anything like the MFC.

Bad Mistake to not have a new Caching staff Round 1 2024, considering all the off field [censored] that went on during 2023.

But Goodwin was extended before the ‘23 Finals Series….

and that is where we are now

So who won us the 2021 Flag, Yze, Burgess or Goodwin, can you make up your mind

8 hours ago, JTR said:

Once again, there are plenty of valid reasons (besides ordinary goal kicking) for why the 2022 and 2023 finals series ended up the way the did, the most crucial of which had absolutely zero to do with coaching.

And if you want to extend it further, in 2024 we had no Brayshaw, lost Petracca half way through the year, never had a 100% Oliver, no longer had Jordan or Harmes and were having to cover all these gaps with inexperienced 1st and 2nd year players.

Again, nothing to do with coaching.

7 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Brayshaw was a big loss, the rest was all controllable from inside, a slow continual decline…

Petracca was controllable, really [censored] it was a game day collision

Edited July 3Jul 3 by Pennant St Dee

6 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

He’s a horrid finisher. Huge risk what confidence he has left plummets as we leave him in the forward line to shank snaps and 30m set shots for goal.

He will get a lot of shots though and create mis-matches with his strength and then mobility.

He will also get a lot of shots within 30m, as opposed to the 40-50m which he is very hit and miss at.

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

So who won us the 2021 Flag, Yze, Burgess or Goodwin, can you make up your mind

They all contributed in a big way. Suprised you needed to ask that.

Oliver is just a bang average midfielder now, offers no point of difference at all. You could replace him with someone on half the coin and get the same output.

Petracca seems to have lost a step and he was never the quickest player to begin with. His disposal let's him down way too often and he doesn't hit the scoreboard as much as he should.

One of them has to go, I'd be moving Oliver and not just due to the off field baggage. He is one dimensional and close to being a plodder.

I’d be letting both go tbh. Neither are going to get back to their best and won’t help us get back up the ladder.

Unfortunately their trade value is at the lowest point, but it will free up some cap space.

Moving Oliver agree Moving Trac disagree

Oliver is cooked. May as well hang the boots up.

Oliver is horrendous with the ball.

Tracc doesn’t run and his tackling efforts are a joke.

We need to move off both for just league average midfielders if we can find them.

These 2 are making us worse.