30 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

So Baker plays his first ever decent game for the Doggies and Harmes produces his usual one good game in every ten and Captain Hindsight laments that we let them go.

If we'd kept them, no doubt you'd be whinging about us retaining NQR list cloggers. Can't have it both ways, mate.

It just goes to show how grim it has gotten for this playing list.

27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Exactly, you would think the supporters didn't learn anything from the 2007-2013 era

But what do you do when players like Petracca & Kozzie are looking elsewhere? (and there might be 2 or 3 more looking for greener pastures ... players these days are now openly requesting trades)

The trade table ends up being an inevitable outcome. So if both are on the move, don't you want value back?

And Oliver? Went off the rails for 2 years but still happily took the $2.8Million

What value did we get from Oliver in 2023 & 2024. Would you be happy paying someone that much money for a negligible return? I'll bet not

So the circumstances are vastly different to 2007 to 2013 when we went mad on youth and shipped all our experience out

If you think it's just the coach (Goodwin) you're wrong. The players look disinterested and they are playing selfish

As previously stated, don't let the players off the hook

In fact what happens is that when a coach does get sacked it pleases the angry mob for a short time until the next loss ... then the players cop it (from the same angry mob)

Rinse & Repeat

46 minutes ago, Macca said:

JVR might be getting specialist coaching for all we know, but it would be nice to see how he'd go in an open forward line (which I'm not sure he's ever seen as our forward line has remained crowded since the start of the 2022 season)

We've got a lot of work to do in order to contend again ... and just sacking the coach isn't going to fix things (IMV)

Lots of issues and a lot of those issues can only be achieved at the trade table (Leg speed, foot and hand skills, KPF's, KPB?, Max Replacement, Marking power, Goal kicking power etc etc)

Our strength is our backline & midfield quality and depth. In fact, those 2 areas very nearly won us 2 finals in 2023 (our forward line was almost completely decimated by injury in 2023)

The big watch is on Petracca & Oliver. At various times both have been top 10 in the league. If we see that again then why would we trade them?

Good points so I’ll elaborate a bit. If Van Rooyen is getting specialist coaching it must be within the bounds of the forward offence we currently run. As you say, we are not seeing spread, leading or creating room for him. If he’s playing deep forward/ full forward and you can’t lead or don’t get good supply from your teammates it’s close to the worst position in the game snd a real confidence killer.

If we continue on this trajectory of losing by big margins along with a lowly spot on the ladder, does it then follow that Petracca & Kozzie will request trades?

And there might be a couple more (you'd hate to be a forward in our forward line)

So what do you get for those 2 aforementioned? 3 or 4 first round picks in the 2025 draft?

Along with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 seasons that amounts to a lot of picks and by default, a rebuild of sorts (at least)

3 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

Good points so I’ll elaborate a bit. If Van Rooyen is getting specialist coaching it must be within the bounds of the forward offence we currently run. As you say, we are not seeing spread, leading or creating room for him. If he’s playing deep forward/ full forward and you can’t lead or don’t get good supply from your teammates it’s close to the worst position in the game snd a real confidence killer.

@DeeSpencer has some interesting thoughts on how the 2 or 3 deep forwards are used these days (across the league)

Often used as decoys and used to create more space across half forward by deliberately taking defenders away from the open space

But again, why our Match Committee hasn't addressed our forward line being constantly crowded is baffling

It's fairly obvious that it has to be slow ball movement further afield and our obsession with going forward, via the cape

That largely explains all the long bombs because why would a midfielder try to pinpoint a pass to a mass of bodies?

29 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

It just goes to show how grim it has gotten for this playing list.

It just goes to show that you are determined to stick the boots in at every opportunity.

2 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

It just goes to show that you are determined to stick the boots in at every opportunity.

we really need James Jordons dynamic wing play now. just the man we need to improve our stodgy ball movement.

we should never have let him go!

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

@DeeSpencer has some interesting thoughts on how the 2 or 3 deep forwards are used these days (across the league)

Often used as decoys and used to create more space across half forward by deliberately taking defenders away from the open space

But again, why our Match Committee hasn't addressed our forward line being constantly crowded is baffling

It's fairly obvious that it has to be slow ball movement further afield and our obsession with going forward, via the cape

That largely explains all the long bombs because why would a midfielder try to pinpoint a pass to a mass of bodies?

I’m in total agreement but it seems an approach without exception. Sometimes us poor spectators are screaming to kick it to a better place. Do you think our guys are scared to break team rules. By coincidence this week I was watching footage of Carlton’s brilliant 81-82 side. Beautiful delivery of the ball. Mark Maclure running hard and doing the bollocking at CHF. Medium tall Peter McConville playing tall and Busustow playing chaos and brilliant footy. Would we try and contain a player like that.

I saw Carlton train the Thursday before 82 GF. The session went about one hour and the ball didn’t hit the ground once from a kick or handball. Fantastic footy skills.

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Watching Baker and Harmes play hard and commited on Friday for the Doggies, they would be good additions to our current list.

Yeah they have reinvented themselves as has JJ and Bedford. This says to me that the environment with MFC is a bit suffocating and doesn’t allow the players to use some of their natural talent.

I get this is somewhat by design as the system supersedes individual talent.

4 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

I’m in total agreement but it seems an approach without exception. Sometimes us poor spectators are screaming to kick it to a better place. Do you think our guys are scared to break team rules. By coincidence this week I was watching footage of Carlton’s brilliant 81-82 side. Beautiful delivery of the ball. Mark Maclure running hard and doing the bollocking at CHF. Medium tall Peter McConville playing tall and Busustow playing chaos and brilliant footy. Would we try and contain a player like that.

I saw Carlton train the Thursday before 82 GF. The session went about one hour and the ball didn’t hit the ground once from a kick or handball. Fantastic footy skills.

Oh yeah, the Blues were great back then and their mosquito fleet would be great today

As for the Demons, I reckon we've started drating for the future with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 off-seasons

The net worth is already starting to show especially if the Kolt can get a good run at it. The other 3 all look like they can play to a good level

And if a few players want out that have good trade value, trade aggressively I say and get good value coming back

Sentiment? Nah, it's all about the team

Before we know it, we'll have a new-look team with loads of new talent

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

If we continue on this trajectory of losing by big margins along with a lowly spot on the ladder, does it then follow that Petracca & Kozzie will request trades?

And there might be a couple more (you'd hate to be a forward in our forward line)

So what do you get for those 2 aforementioned? 3 or 4 first round picks in the 2025 draft?

Along with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 seasons that amounts to a lot of picks and by default, a rebuild of sorts (at least)

It will be the fastest path to a rebuild plus the danger of keeping players round who aren’t happy just creates even more issues. Best to move on those who don’t want to be there were reasonable trades can be done, we have seen multiple example of teams turning things round quickly in the last few years once the clubs stop been indecisive. The worst outcome in is do nothing and just waste more years with nothing to show for it

2 minutes ago, Garbo said:

It will be the fastest path to a rebuild plus the danger of keeping players round who aren’t happy just creates even more issues. Best to move on those who don’t want to be there were reasonable trades can be done, we have seen multiple example of teams turning things round quickly in the last few years once the clubs stop been indecisive. The worst outcome in is do nothing and just waste more years with nothing to show for it

I reckon you're right Garbo. But I find it very hard to admit, say out loud. We connect emotionally to players.

5 minutes ago, Garbo said:

It will be the fastest path to a rebuild plus the danger of keeping players round who aren’t happy just creates even more issues. Best to move on those who don’t want to be there were reasonable trades can be done, we have seen multiple example of teams turning things round quickly in the last few years once the clubs stop been indecisive. The worst outcome in is do nothing and just waste more years with nothing to show for it

Yes, there's been just too much noise from the 2 aforementioned players for it not to be realistic outcome

But that's ok, you turn it into a positive with the best in the business at identifying young talent (Jason Taylor)

And you are right, things can turnaround very quickly especially if all the trading goes to plan

You let go of the past and work at the future

I'm already looking forward to the new-look team as I don't believe the old group has another flag in them anyway ... 2022 & 2023 was our chance at a 2nd flag (with the same group)

Flags are not easy to win and sometimes you have to start again

I like others feel that we are already a couple of years into our rebuild. After thinking it over and starting to come to terms with our current situation I am now somewhat optimistic we can turn things around relatively quickly. We already have a quality group of youngster that seem well suited to the modern game.

I agree with others that Kossie and Trac are the most likely to be traded out to help speed things up. Both have made it clear they want out. I’m not Tim Lambs biggest fan but at least we have both these players on decent contracts and any deal will have to be in our favour.

Also I thought the Tassie team would be given picks in the 2026 draft but it seems that they may just be trying to get access to any Tasmanian players in 2026 before they receive their big draft hand in 2027. So we have two drafts before they are a big factor. Considering we have had 4 top end players out of the last two drafts topping this up over the next two years should leave us with enough young talent.

We will struggle to attract quality mature players over the next couple of years anyways and our recent player trading has been poor. So the way is see it we have this year and next to top up with more young talent and hopefully in that time frame we will have an improved game style and coaching to make us a more attractive option for quality mature players.

51 minutes ago, Macca said:

Oh yeah, the Blues were great back then and their mosquito fleet would be great today

As for the Demons, I reckon we've started drating for the future with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 off-seasons

The net worth is already starting to show especially if the Kolt can get a good run at it. The other 3 all look like they can play to a good level

And if a few players want out that have good trade value, trade aggressively I say and get good value coming back

Sentiment? Nah, it's all about the team

Before we know it, we'll have a new-look team with loads of new talent

I again agree

Kolt Windsor Langford Lindsay. Potential top liners

Ferguson Turner Van Rooyen Potential Key Position players.

Established Max, few years left. Viney a few more years left, Trac still very good or trade value. Oliver, still very good or trade Value. Kossie a Star. May, few more years left. Lever 3-4 years left

Nearly there. McVee , Rivers.Petty

That’s 17 good players if all fit.

Might have missed a few

3 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

I again agree

Kolt Windsor Langford Lindsay. Potential top liners

Ferguson Turner Van Rooyen Potential Key Position players.

Established Max, few years left. Viney a few more years left, Trac still very good or trade value. Oliver, still very good or trade Value. Kossie a Star. May, few more years left. Lever 3-4 years left

Nearly there. McVee , Rivers.Petty

That’s 17 good players if all fit.

Might have missed a few

I think McVee, at least until last season, is well and truly there/here. Gun player.

Just now, 48 Year Now said:

I again agree

Kolt Windsor Langford Lindsay. Potential top liners

Ferguson Turner Van Rooyen Potential Key Position players.

Established Max, few years left. Viney a few more years left, Trac still very good or trade value. Oliver, still very good or trade Value. Kossie a Star. May, few more years left. Lever 3-4 years left

Nearly there. McVee , Rivers.Petty

That’s 17 good players if all fit.

Might have missed a few

Viney could play as a small forward, down the track

Petracca is more suited as a floating half forward type rather than playing out of the goal square (which is now part of the congested zone these days)

Nice to see Turner bounce back with 5 goals for Casey, that's what you want to see

Max will need help and that help may not be far away. But do we play a 2nd ruck or use JVR or AJ more in the ruck?

As for the trade table, it's comforting to know that Taylor has the Midas Touch with regards to the draft

So if we lose 2 or 3, I'm not too concerned. Players come and go but to me it's always about the team

With further future picks coming into vogue, we can keep going back to the well

And sooner or later, in season trading will eventuate

We are actually in a strong position with regards to trades. So unless we get what we want, we can hold players to their long term deals

Picks 2 or 3 years in advance is something we need to get used to. I reckon that new way of trading will help facilitate trades

Here's how I see our future forward line (maybe later this season)

If JVR & Turner can become productive forwards, the forward line doesn't look too bad

HF ... Fritsch ... JVR ... Petracca/Kozzie

F ... Viney/Chin ... Disco/AJ ... Melksham

Edited Sunday at 09:213 days by Macca

We keep our current list minus retirees. We add White, Silema?? and trade up to add a top 10 pick. We replace the coach, Richardson and whoever else is deemed dead wood. We reset and go again. Our list is good enough, our mindset looks shot.

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

Viney could play as a small forward, down the track

Petracca is more suited as a floating half forward type rather than playing out of the goal square (which is now part of the congested zone these days)

Nice to see Turner bounce back with 5 goals for Casey, that's what you want to see

Max will need help and that help may not be far away. But do we play a 2nd ruck or use JVR or AJ more in the ruck?

As for the trade table, it's comforting to know that Taylor has the Midas Touch with regards to the draft

So if we lose 2 or 3, I'm not too concerned. Players come and go but to me it's always about the team

With further future picks coming into vogue, we can keep going back to the well

And sooner or later, in season trading will eventuate

We are actually in a strong position with regards to trades. So unless we get what we want, we can hold players to their long term deals

Picks 2 or 3 years in advance is something we need to get used to. I reckon that new way of trading will help facilitate trades

Here's how I see our future forward line (maybe later this season)

If JVR & Turner can become productive forwards, the forward line doesn't look too bad

HF ... Fritsch ... JVR ... Petracca/Kozzie

F ... Viney/Chin ... Disco/AJ ... Melksham

Not sure Viney has enough tricks to play small forward Macca

Just now, Return to Glory said:

Not sure Viney has enough tricks to play small forward Macca

See ball, get ball? At least we'd know that he'd put his body on the line. Front & centre could easily be his go

I reckon it's worth a try especially if this season turns out to be a non-finals year and we thus become a team that is looking to the future

But can he be productive as a midfielder for the next 4 years? Right now, that looks a big ask

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Viney could play as a small forward, down the track

Petracca is more suited as a floating half forward type rather than playing out of the goal square (which is now part of the congested zone these days)

Nice to see Turner bounce back with 5 goals for Casey, that's what you want to see

Max will need help and that help may not be far away. But do we play a 2nd ruck or use JVR or AJ more in the ruck?

As for the trade table, it's comforting to know that Taylor has the Midas Touch with regards to the draft

So if we lose 2 or 3, I'm not too concerned. Players come and go but to me it's always about the team

With further future picks coming into vogue, we can keep going back to the well

And sooner or later, in season trading will eventuate

We are actually in a strong position with regards to trades. So unless we get what we want, we can hold players to their long term deals

Picks 2 or 3 years in advance is something we need to get used to. I reckon that new way of trading will help facilitate trades

Here's how I see our future forward line (maybe later this season)

If JVR & Turner can become productive forwards, the forward line doesn't look too bad

HF ... Fritsch ... JVR ... Petracca/Kozzie

F ... Viney/Chin ... Disco/AJ ... Melksham

Pretty much on same page. Future looks brighter if you start with our quality players finding form rather than those that likely won’t make it. And then you find a few bob up improve and you get close to a strong line up.

1 minute ago, 48 Year Now said:

Pretty much on same page. Future looks brighter if you start with our quality players finding form rather than those that likely won’t make it. And then you find a few bob up improve and you get close to a strong line up.

Regardless of the make-up of the team we have to change the way that we play. Pronto

But it's not going to be easy as it needs a total buy-in and a new faster, direct and efficient style of offense is a big departure from how we've gone about it previously

We practised the new style in the off-season after trying it out in season 2024 and Goodwin is also talking about it now as well

To me it's about the big 3 ... Oliver, Petracca & Viney. If we can get those 3 to change, the rest can follow

Goodwin has X amount of games to turn this ship around. But if he can do it, he might save his career

How many games? I reckon we're going to have to see a change within the 4 games after the Cats clash

Snag 2 or 3 wins in that time frame with a quicker and more direct style and we'll be off and running

There's also a real chance that we do change (with a buzzing offense) but continue losing

Yes i would be playing Viney on the Forward line this Friday

We have to do things differently

Fritta in the Goalsquare….

On first crack David King said it’s time to break up the midfield & play Langford , Windsor etc showed vision of our mids Oliver & trac not working hard enough to run back and the brand of contest & defense will not work, said need to trade Oliver

If we do trade out Trac and/of Kozzie, then we need to throw whatever we can to Port and take Butters now. Readymade elite midfielder who is a perfect hybrid mid.