Only measure we need to take is moving on the coach

Edited Sunday at 00:273 days by Ugottobekidding

46 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He is still our best player and the only one with the ability to break games open. He is 30 but no reason he will fall off a cliff or that he can't go to the end of his contract (at least). Giving him away for nothing to the Pies would be idiotic.

we wouldn't be giving him away for 'nothing' - we'd definitely get a first round pick and clear $1m off our salary cap

it all comes down to whether or not he wants to go; given what transpired last year and the mealy-mouthed statements since, i can definitely see him trying to force his way out of the club again

we need a change at this end of this year; letting a player of the calibre of trac go could be the required action needed to clear out the cobwebs

38 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He is still our best player and the only one with the ability to break games open. He is 30 but no reason he will fall off a cliff or that he can't go to the end of his contract (at least). Giving him away for nothing to the Pies would be idiotic.

Yes, we need to get a decent offer for Petracca otherwise he is more value staying (so long as he can turn things around)

I wouldn't be giving Collingwood a leg-up. Or any team for that matter

You don't strengthen a rival whilst weakening your own position

Same story for Oliver and a few others. We'll need to get true value coming back

So trade aggressively

For the right offer, I'd trade both Oliver & Petracca

Kozzie is a keeper, so a super-offer would have to be presented

If West Coast want to give us a first rounder for JVR, I'd take it in a heartbeat and use that pick towards a proper key forward. van Rooyen can't read the play, nor can he read the trajectory of the ball. He looks like a fish out of water most of the time. Right now, he's a liability

Fritsch might want out too as we've made it darn near impossible for him to excel, with our shoddy disposal forward of centre. To be fair, his last 2 games have been much improved

We need a cleanout and a rebuild (of sorts) Similar to what Richmond have done

And we need to do it now as future drafts post 2025 are going to be compromised

Face it, it would take a minor miracle for us to play finals this season so we might as well start planning for the future

Sparrow & Rivers could also be traded if the right offers came our way. Neither of those 2 use the ball well. Bombs away

If we can bring in around 3 or 4 first round picks and 3 or 4 2nd rounders for the 2025 draft, we can rebuild this team ... but that means a bit of a cleanout

Somewhere in all that mix, well need a fully fledged ruckman to replace Max (Jackson?)

Do all that and we can contend again from 2027 onwards

Edited Sunday at 03:433 days by Macca

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yes, we need to get a decent offer for Petracca otherwise he is more value staying (so long as he can turn things around)

I wouldn't be giving Collingwood a leg-up. Or any team for that matter

Same story for Oliver and a few others. We'll need to get true value coming back

So trade aggressively

For the right offer, I'd trade both Oliver & Petracca

Kozzie is a keeper, so a super-offer would have to be presented

If West Coast want to give us a first rounder for JVR, I'd take it in a heartbeat and use that pick towards a proper key forward. van Rooyen can't read the play, nor can he read the trajectory of the ball. He looks like a fish out of water most of the time. Right now, he's a liability

Fritsch might want out too as we've made it darn near impossible for him to excel, with our shoddy disposal forward of centre. To be fair, his last 2 games have been much improved

We need a cleanout and a rebuild (of sorts) Similar to what Richmond have done

And we need to do it now as future drafts post 2025 are going to be compromised

Face it, it would take a minor miracle for us to play finals this season so we might as well start planning for the future

Sparrow & Rivers could also be traded if the right offers came our way. Neither of those 2 use the ball well. Bombs away

If we can bring in around 3 or 4 first round picks and 3 or 4 2nd rounders for the 2025 draft, we can rebuild this team ... but that means a bit of a cleanout

Somewhere in all that mix, well need a fully fledged ruckman to replace Max (Jackson?)

Do all that and we can contend again from 2027 onwards

We’ll need to keep some experienced heads around to guide the youngsters but anyone else who we do not think will be in the team for our next flag should be on the table.

2 minutes ago, BDA said:

We’ll need to keep some experienced heads around to guide the youngsters but anyone else who we do not think will be in the team for our next flag should be on the table.

Well the keepers (for now) include players such as Max, Viney, Salem, Petty, Lever, May, Langdon, Kozzie*, Bowey, Chandler and a few others

As well as our younger crop of players who will be more experienced in 2 years time ... Langford, Lindsay, McVee, Mentha, Tholstrup, Windsor etc etc

And if we trade big time, we can add about 7 or 8 first or 2nd round draft picks from the 2025 draft

Sounds fanciful but is it? We just seen Richmond do it and in overseas sports, huge off-season trading is commonplace

So the tradeables could be Oliver, JVR, Petracca, Rivers, Fritsch & Sparrow. It won't be all of them but maybe 3 or 4

So if we want a clean-out and a rebuild that's what the club has to do

A new coach with the current group might see more of what we're seeing now

The club needs a shake-up

*Kozzie is a keeper

5 hours ago, demon3165 said:

You cannot play quick ball movement all day with a one-paced midfield; full stop. They are good against a team that plays similarly, but the game started to change from the 2022, and we kept playing the same way. Now our lack of run, skills, and decision-making has come back to bite us badly. Yes, we will improve, but not to the extent needed to match the top teams.

Viney is too slow and, like Oliver, was shown up when there is no congestion in packs. Once the ball is moved quickly, he is out of the contest with ease. Max, unfortunately, cannot jump at center bounces, and opposing teams will now just jump into him, making it harder for him to provide the first opportunity to give it off to someone.

The game plan is something else; because of the lack of quick movement and skills, everyone is around the ball creating packs and contests. However, when the ball is moved to the outside by the opposition and transferred, it opens us up and allows them scoring opportunities much easier than we can. All our forwards are that far up the ground when we do get it, so all you see are 2-3 backmen alone forming a wall across the half-back line and picking us off.

You cannot delist everyone, but Trac and Kossie should be kept. Oliver should either be traded or have his role recreated. Viney, who has been a loyal soldier, cannot keep playing in the midfield if he struggles to contribute against runing sides, Sparrow is in no man's land, but the worse thing is the inability to hit targets by hand or foot is staggering and does not help the cause at all. It's going to be an interesting year.

Kozzy yes. Petraca not so sure with the turmoil from last off season.

Oliver should stay. Viney is a difficult one, not many options and a club man.

12 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well the keepers (for now) include players such as Max, Viney, Salem, Petty, Lever, May, Langdon, Kozzie*, Bowey, Chandler and a few others

As well as our younger crop of players who will be more experienced in 2 years time ... Langford, Lindsay, McVee, Mentha, Tholstrup, Windsor etc etc

And if we trade big time, we can add about 7 or 8 first or 2nd round draft picks from the 2025 draft

Sounds fanciful but is it? We just seen Richmond do it and in overseas sports, huge off-season trading is commonplace

So the tradeables could be Oliver, JVR, Petracca, Rivers, Fritsch & Sparrow. It won't be all of them but maybe 3 or 4

So if we want a clean-out and a rebuild that's what the club has to do

A new coach with the current group might see more of what we're seeing now

The club needs a shake-up

*Kozzie is a keeper

Salem isn't a keeper for mine Macca

9 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Kozzy, yes. Petraca is not so sure with the turmoil from last off season.

Oliver should stay. Viney is a difficult one, not many options, and a club man.

Oliver cannot just keep playing the same role the game has changed as for Viney in all honesty what role can he play he hasn't got the pace to play a linkage running player or the skills that go with that role now he has been a great player for the club and some serious discussions need to take place over him.

3 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Salem isn't a keeper for mine Macca

Yes, but I doubt that Salem would be a tradable type as he's too old to get much in return. He'd be more of an off-load (and a keeper for mine)

Where as the others I listed are a lot younger or are top players (when at their best)

Sparrow - early 2nd rounder

Rivers - Late 1st rounder

JVR - Some club will want him, late 1st rounder?

Fritsch - Again, some clubs will want him but he is 29 next season. Early 2nd rounder

Oliver - 2 x 1st round picks (but will they pay up)

Petracca - 2 x 1st round picks (again, will they pay up)

That's a cleanout but what are we getting in return right now?

I'd say overall - bog average

It's not just the coach

Just take me back to September 8, 2018.

The day I truly felt in love with this club. With its people. 80,000 of them.

The memories 🥲.

I say we all assemble at Bunnings in Mentone on Tuesday ( Mondays aren't great for me. In fact this one especially...I have an appointment with my chiropractor...but that's another story) at around 2.30 pm and source the biggest broom they have.

We then make our way back to the MCG where a snap meeting of all players and staff has been called. Although those with a valid note from their parents may be excused. Sorry I digress.

We then apply said broom as vigorously and unceremoniously as possible and rid ourselves of anyone that is lacking in passion and determination to win another flag. Those with back issues like myself may receive a special dispensation. Where was I? Oh yea..

We simply ask those who give a fig for another flag to take a 10 percent pay cut. ( It's not about the money....it demonstrates commitment). Those who won't....sweep sweep me old mateys. Thanks for the memories but it's time to go

Then again this really didn't go too well so apologies for wasting time here folks.

But I think some levity is much needed .

But seriously it's going to look bad after this week's game at that hole called... whatever it's called now. Take that sponsors.

Edited Sunday at 03:313 days by leave it to deever

2 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I say we all assemble at Bunnings in Mentone on Tuesday ( Mondays aren't great for me. In fact this one especially...I have an appointment with my chiropractor...but that's another story) at around 2.30 pm and source the biggest broom they have.

We then make our way back to the MCG where a snap meeting of all players and staff has been called. Although those with a valid note from their parents may be excused. Sorry I digress.

We then apply said broom as vigorously and unceremoniously as possible and rid ourselves of anyone that is lacking in passion and determination to win another flag. Those with back issues like myself may receive a special dispensation. Where was I? Oh yea..

We simply ask those who give a fig for another flag to take a 10 percent pay cut. ( It's not about the money....it demonstrates commitment). Those who won't....sweep sweep me old mateys. Thanks for the memories but it's time to go

Then again this really didn't go to well so apologies for wasting time here folks.

But I think some levity is much needed .

But seriously it's going to look bad after this week's game at that hole called... whatever it's called now. Take that sponsers.

Alphabet stadium AKA Mordor.

14 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yes, but I doubt that Salem would be a tradable type as he's too old to get much in return. He'd be more of an off-load (and a keeper for mine)

Where as the others I listed are a lot younger or are top players (when at their best)

Sparrow - early 2nd rounder

Rivers - Late 1st rounder

JVR - Some club will want him, late 1st rounder?

Fritsch - Again, some clubs will want him but he is 29 next season. Early 2nd rounder

Oliver - 2 x 1st round picks (but will they pay up)

Petracca - 2 x 1st round picks (again, will they pay up)

That's a cleanout but what are we getting in return right now?

I'd say overall - bog average

It's not just the coach

I feel for JVR. He’s trying to learn his craft in a completely dysfunctionally fed/constantly crowded F50 and he’s not 22 yet. How is he supposed to develop properly in this environment?

5 minutes ago, BoBo said:

I feel for JVR. He’s trying to learn his craft in a completely dysfunctionally fed/constantly crowded F50 and he’s not 22 yet. How is he supposed to develop properly in this environment?

Doesn't relish the front position and doesn't know where or how to lead

Doesn't read the play well or the ball trajectory for that matter

He actually needs to be coached properly on how to play as a key forward by a specialist coach who has played the position

He could be ok but he needs coaching

I find it a bit odd that excuses are made for JVR but not for someone like Fritsch

And a good forward wins his own ball

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

Doesn't relish the front position and doesn't know where or how to lead

Doesn't read the play well or the ball trajectory for that matter

He actually needs to be coached properly on how to play as a key forward by a specialist coach who has played the position

He could be ok but he needs coaching

I find it a bit odd that excuses are made for JVR but not for someone like Fritsch

And a good forward wins his own ball

I hear he played juniors as a backman. CHB worth a try.

Interesting now that JVR seems to have gone backwards. Not sure how our development goes.

2022 he looked good as a 19 year old at Casey.

2023 debut v Swans (just turned 20) was very good with 3 goals and big strong marks

But in 2024 and start of 2025, he couldn’t catch a cold (his inability to mark or hold the footy is really poor) … is he wearing oven mitts was one posters comments.

He looks hesitant to lead up. When he does, he often has to wait whilst the midfield overuses or kicks it “on his head” and it’s impossible to compete.

I think JVR is part of our future. But he needs to move more and actually fuc@$&)n one grab the footy. A more accurate delivery from the mids might also help.

The idea by many that Petracca will be going to Collingwood and only Collingwood is very confusing to me. With 4 years left on his deal we're more or less in the same position as last year in terms of leverage. So if he has a decent year and requests a trade we a) deny the request, or b) if leaving the club is in his best interests, we listen to offers from all clubs and sell to the highest bidder. That's pretty much how it goes and unless Collingwood have a better draft hand this year, then I'd say other clubs would be more likely destinations.

From the Pies point of view, they do have some decent cap space but Nick Daicos's monster deal kicks in 2026. Personally I think there are some up and comers there that could command a bit of money so I'm undecided if Trac is the big fish they should go for. As things stand they don't have a pick till the 3rd round either.

29 minutes ago, BoBo said:

I feel for JVR. He’s trying to learn his craft in a completely dysfunctionally fed/constantly crowded F50 and he’s not 22 yet. How is he supposed to develop properly in this environment?

Ditto.

And required to be in the middle too. Poor bloke.

4 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

I hear he played juniors as a backman. CHB worth a try.

Yeah I wouldn't be giving up on JVR (unless we got a really good offer)

He's still playing like a 1st or 2nd year player and I'd be pushing him up into the play as a CHF type with a license to roam (a bit like how T-Mac used to play as a forward)

Create a bit of space for himself

But in the meantime, some specialist coaching wouldn't go astray

37 minutes ago, BoBo said:

I feel for JVR. He’s trying to learn his craft in a completely dysfunctionally fed/constantly crowded F50 and he’s not 22 yet. How is he supposed to develop properly in this environment?

As oft quoted ... "hard to soar like an eagle when surrounded by turkeys"

Lost jordon ANB Bedord baker

All getting regular games with others

All hard workers

Never understood the strategy

15 minutes ago, layzie said:

The idea by many that Petracca will be going to Collingwood and only Collingwood is very confusing to me. With 4 years left on his deal we're more or less in the same position as last year in terms of leverage. So if he has a decent year and requests a trade we a) deny the request, or b) if leaving the club is in his best interests, we listen to offers from all clubs and sell to the highest bidder. That's pretty much how it goes and unless Collingwood have a better draft hand this year, then I'd say other clubs would be more likely destinations.

From the Pies point of view, they do have some decent cap space but Nick Daicos's monster deal kicks in 2026. Personally I think there are some up and comers there that could command a bit of money so I'm undecided if Trac is the big fish they should go for. As things stand they don't have a pick till the 3rd round either.

That’s unfortunately not how it works

Players nominate the club they want to go to and a deal gets done accordingly

The general consensus is Trac would like to be in black and white because that’s who his family all support

Edited Sunday at 04:313 days by whatwhat say what

14 minutes ago, Macca said:

Doesn't relish the front position and doesn't know where or how to lead

Doesn't read the play well or the ball trajectory for that matter

He actually needs to be coached properly on how to play as a key forward by a specialist coach who has played the position

He could be ok but he needs coaching

I find it a bit odd that excuses are made for JVR but not for someone like Fritsch

And a good forward wins his own ball

He has work to do absolutely. I think there’s a lot of potential there is all. Played 43 games, kicked 60 goals, averaging 1.40 goals a game. Which is pretty good considering he’s played ruck/up the ground too. He absolutely needs proper coaching like you say.

Fair call about Fritsch. Although Van Rooyen is currently 27 more goals than Fritsch after the first 43 games. Van Rooyen on 60 goals whilst Fritsch was 33 goals.

46 minutes ago, Macca said:

Doesn't relish the front position and doesn't know where or how to lead

Doesn't read the play well or the ball trajectory for that matter

He actually needs to be coached properly on how to play as a key forward by a specialist coach who has played the position

He could be ok but he needs coaching

I find it a bit odd that excuses are made for JVR but not for someone like Fritsch

And a good forward wins his own ball

Tbh... it's always been my experience ( arguably.. just going on that lol ) that a good , better than good, forward just knows where to be. They've built up their footy Intel over years of playing forward. It's actually very hard to teach the nuances and subtleties. You can teach the theory but it needs a player who can read the game, the flight of the ball and likely outcomes.... all in that 'eternity' of time called ...seconds !!

Some can , others never will.

I'm not sure about JVR tbh as he's all very bang crash for mine.