14 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I was pleasantly surprised with how well Matthew Jefferson played in his first game for the Demons kicking 2 goals.

He is still looking very skinny though!

Jeffo needs to spend any spare moment he has in the gym building those muscles! 💪🏻

 

He’s way bigger than when he first got to the club!

I reckon one more pre season and he will be ready to explode.

Our dysfunctional forward line is now creating issues in other areas of the ground.  Notably our defence (which against North, was under seige) 

If the opposition are able to rebound quickly out of our forward line, they'll find easy routes to goal

Teams are no longer happy to just boot the ball down the line out of the opposition forward lines

The sport has moved on with teams using handball & kicking skills when rebounding out of defence (at pace)

So if we can't lock the ball in our own forward line, we're effectively setting the opposition up to score (with our long bombs)

We need to change the way we advance the ball forward ... quick smart

Edited Tuesday at 23:435 days by Macca

On 18/03/2025 at 21:49, picket fence said:

But NOT JUH, BAD BAD VIBES!

I think vibes is putting it mildly

 

I saw snippets of some of the commentary and analysis on the various footy shows, of our loss to North, the focus was on the third quarter when we had 19 inside 50’s for 2 goals before being smashed in the last. The vision the analyst showed was quite damning and looking at a replay this arvo of the third you just have to scratch your head at what is going on at the club. It’s total Groundhog Day watching Viney just banging it 40m forward to a nest of NMFC backs whilst there are 3 loose players forward of him, in the corridor, with their arms in the air. It wasn’t just Viney, it was Oliver, Rivers, Turner, even Lindsay blazing away for an out of bounds.  Part of the blame sits with the players but really I am exasperated with our coaching staff. 56 F50 entries in the game for a 9% success rate! 

i still remember when we basically coughed up the 2023 Premiership with our 7 point loss to the Pies after managing 69 to 37 inside F50s!  A sobering stat I remember someone posted back then was that final was one of only 3 times that a side had ever lost after having a F50 + differential of that margin. The sample size was 2000 plus games and guess what of the 3 losses listed we were the culprits twice. 
 

That failure should have been seared into our coaching staff’s collective brains, never to occur again, but no we have soldiered on with the same one dimensional and predictable delivery ever since, while saying every year since we are working on a new style to improve our “forward connection”! I just don’t get it.

It should be drilled into our ball carriers to look for closer options at every opportunity. Forward of centre the ball carrier  should be looking to a corridor option and our mids should be busting their guts to be a corridor option. After all at other clubs, players don’t have to look, they are handballing or chipping the ball inboard, knowing a team mate will be running onto it.

We would all love a Wayne Carey up forward but it won’t happen, after 4 years of forward disconnection, what we do need is a new head coach! 
 

14 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

It should be drilled into our ball carriers to look for closer options at every opportunity.

Why do you presume that that's not happening?

But talking about it, instructing it, even training it is vastly different to executing it on game day under pressure - especially for players who are not particular smart or skilled with ball in hand (but may have other strengths).

Goodwin has been clear in a number of interviews this year that we're trying to do things differently. Equally clear that it's a work in progress, that we're not always getting it right, that at times that we're "going back to bad habits" and playing in a way that "isn't a reflection of what we're trying to do", etc. etc.

Worth watching AFL360, not just for Goodwin (though he doesn't give much away ...), but for the discussion of rebuilds and changing game styles with Simpson (especially) and Longmire. Simpson talks about it taking 3 years before you start to see results.

Going to be a long season I suspect.

10 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Why do you presume that that's not happening?

But talking about it, instructing it, even training it is vastly different to executing it on game day under pressure - especially for players who are not particular smart or skilled with ball in hand (but may have other strengths).

Goodwin has been clear in a number of interviews this year that we're trying to do things differently. Equally clear that it's a work in progress, that we're not always getting it right, that at times that we're "going back to bad habits" and playing in a way that "isn't a reflection of what we're trying to do", etc. etc.

Worth watching AFL360, not just for Goodwin (though he doesn't give much away ...), but for the discussion of rebuilds and changing game styles with Simpson (especially) and Longmire. Simpson talks about it taking 3 years before you start to see results.

Going to be a long season I suspect.

I suppose I presume after 3 seasons of coach talk and then watching NMFC number 30 Charlie Comben take 12 intercept marks in our forward 50 from long bombs on top of JVR and Disco’s heads. I saw no sign of any intent to do things differently in regards to F50 entries. 

It would be easy to correct the ‘long bombs to the forward line issue”, but sadly, in this modern age, HR wouldn’t allow electric dog collars.

Why is anyone surprised our mids just bomb it forward!

Our midfield coach was a fierce, get ball bomb it forward midfielder.  Loved that about him and his dedication to the club.  That style worked in 2018 and 2021.  But Jones has no experience with any other game style or ball movement method. 

He was a champion player and will always be a club champion but not sure he has the experience or creativity to support Goodwin implementing a new game style. 

 

Sadly, I think we are back in the 2020 situation where Goodwin doesn't have the mix of and experienced assistants with knowledge of how to implement change and how to succeed.  From what I can tell we don't have a strategy type coach or a ball movement coach.  Fairly critical I would have thought to communicate and implement a new style.

It is one thing to want to change, quite another to make it happen.  And imv we look and sound confused, on and off the field.

Edited Wednesday at 20:494 days by Lucifers Hero

10 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I suppose I presume after 3 seasons of coach talk and then watching NMFC number 30 Charlie Comben take 12 intercept marks in our forward 50 from long bombs on top of JVR and Disco’s heads. I saw no sign of any intent to do things differently in regards to F50 entries. 

I guess they ae not listening to the coach!

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

I guess they ae not listening to the coach!

Or the coaching staff haven't adequately explained/taught the alternative method that is easily understood by and that all players buy into.  So players are confused ... that is how they look to me.

30 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Why is anyone surprised our mids just bomb it forward!

Our midfield coach was a fierce, get ball bomb it forward midfielder.  Loved that about him and his dedication to the club.  That style worked in 2018 and 2021.  But Jones has no experience with any other game style or ball movement method. 

He was a champion player and will always be a club champion but not sure he has the experience or creativity to support Goodwin implementing a new game style. 

 

Sadly, I think we are back in the 2020 situation where Goodwin doesn't have the mix of and experienced assistants with knowledge of how to implement change and how to succeed.  From what I can tell we don't have a strategy type coach or a ball movement coach.  Fairly critical I would have thought to communicate and implement a new style.

It is one thing to want to change, quite another to make it happen.  And imv we look and sound confused, on and off the field.

Good summary LH which really is another way of saying that Goody is at the end of his tether with this group of players unless there us a tougher approach to players who don’t follow coaches instructions. 
BUT why can’t we get it right ?

Other teams do it right every week either under pressure or to change games when challenged. 

Players like Trac Clarry and Gawny plus JV must know they are contributing to our demise and their 50% or slightly more disposal figures reveal the truth ALL the time. 

Unfortunately for the Club the ONE component ALL ALONG is Simon who has presided over a pressure and defence mantra now for 3 years to no avail. It has ruined our approach to footy aggression and challenge as we go it for a small period but fall and lapse back into our binning and same same forward thrusts through poor connectivity and forwards who don’t lead. 

End result is also bad goal kicking that eroded confidence and leads to further pressure on each shot fo goal. 

I am certain that the players are tired of the same mistakes and plans even different this year from the same source. 

The opinion that Goody has lost the players MUST HAVE some credence for our 2021 heroes. The excuses blown up that Goody is liked/loved by all of them is not compelling enough to NOT make a change if we are not successful. 

If we could get John  Longmire to a 3 year deal with new assistants it would save a crisis that will further potentially send the  club back to the old days of losing. 

I don’t understand any supporter not wanying us to be a winning Club and by not making a change when clearly it is necessary. GW is fixated with love for Goody by players well they better start proving it by changing the game plan and making it successful in a hurry or we won’t have fans putting up with the same same issues each season. Maybe it’s got to be player lead for any change even the lovers who are smitten can surely see their folly as they trudge off the field after another repeat performance of like the third quarter. 

BTW why can’t the centre bounce players make changes on the run when they are out of touch like in the last quarter. Thats why we need Campbell or Johnson  in the 23. That’s another coaching fault NO PLAN B or C. when we are challenged. Thats another reason GW for Goody to be replaced. Same same again!!

Change or perish I think. 

 

 

On 11/03/2025 at 14:09, leave it to deever said:

Just watched the Freo pre season game.

Our goal kicking efforts are still atrocious.

And I don't know what's happened to Fritta. He's joined the others.

 

Fritsch first need to get the ball. Ideally somewhere near the corridor.

When he kicks well he leans fwd over the ball with a straight kicking leg action. When he kicks badly he invariably leans back with a lazy action and with a leg action that moves from out to in.

Now that he's hardly getting the ball the pressure on each of his meagre kicks has ramped up and lo and behold his accuracy comes under pressure 

45 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Or the coaching staff haven't adequately explained/taught the alternative method that is easily understood by and that all players buy into.  So players are confused ... that is how they look to me.

They definitely look confused. It's as if we need to slingshot out of defence or fast from the middle but kicking into 50 we need to slow down and be selective about our options.

There is a disconnect between that change of pace.

In addition our running patterns are woeful. Take for example the incident where Jefferson was injured. 3 Melbourne players jumping for the same ball. WTF? Ots a movie we have seen way too often

Was some great footage on On The Couch this week re Adelaide and how Walker, Tilthorpe and Fogarty move as a unit and rotate in a triangle. Was a joy to behold to see it done well.

Nearly all their entries resulted in a one on one not a pack situation. And the space in the fwd line gave plenty of options for a midfield kicker to kick to advantage

here's the other thing about having lots of space. You dont need to be accurate with your kicking. You only need to kick it to the advantage of your forward.

Do that and you look like a genius.

 

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Was some great footage on On The Couch this week re Adelaide and how Walker, Tilthorpe and Fogarty move as a unit

Unless I'm mistaken, Fogarty and Walker are into their 8th season together, Tilthorpe (who was a number 2 pick) is into his 5th with those two. 

Our 3 equivalent (JVR, Turner, then either Jefferson or Johnson) have had two *games* together.

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Fritsch first need to get the ball. Ideally somewhere near the corridor.

When he kicks well he leans fwd over the ball with a straight kicking leg action. When he kicks badly he invariably leans back with a lazy action and with a leg action that moves from out to in.

Now that he's hardly getting the ball the pressure on each of his meagre kicks has ramped up and lo and behold his accuracy comes under pressure 

I fully agree that the delivery into our forward line is well below par. Has been for a long time now. We lost some finals where our i50 count was higher than our opponents. But our accuracy in kicking has been woeful too. We know who the main offenders are.

Unfortunately Fritta used to be one of our most reliable set shots. But I think he's a real confidence player. He is not a traditional fwd. He's not a Tony Lockett example of brute force and he's not a small speedy Gonzales.

He's got a good leap and he's great at timing his bumps so his small frame often accounts for moving larger ones. One on one in space, he is a defenders nightmare because he can turn on a dime and needs but a few milliseconds to get the ball onto his boot. He's often in the process of kicking while still turning. 

He has a great sense of where the goals are and he can often kick freakish goals from the boundary line. He also has great recovery skills after he goes for a mark. He has cat like skills to land on his feet and stay in contention.  A perfect example was that gf goal when he and Max went up for the same grab. Fritta is a master of out the back goals.

Problem is, as you alluded to, is our delivery. That example I just referenced was one where there was lots of space. Due to the nature of our game plan, teams now have plenty of time to flood our fwd line and therefore nullify Frittata's skills .

I will watch him closer now that you have mentioned this. I hadn't noticed it. The big issue for me regarding Fritta is his lack of chasing and tackling. It's not a good look and he just doesn't seem to be giving his all. 

But the calls to trade him are wrong. He just needs to find his mojo. He has been our leading goal kicker for a while now and even though he hasn't  heights of a Coleman, he's gone close in one season. And that's not bad given the way the ball has "delivered" into our fwd line.

 

27 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Nearly all their entries resulted in a one on one not a pack situation. And the space in the fwd line gave plenty of options for a midfield kicker to kick to advantage

Yep this. And to make matters stranger we don't even have a big unit like the Crows have to stand strong in a pack to even take a mark. I mean if we had a big Tex down there that can put up his dukes in the middle of a pack and clunk a few thrn maybe we could look the other way sometimes. My kingdom for a another David Schwarz in our midst. 

28 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

They definitely look confused. It's as if we need to slingshot out of defence or fast from the middle but kicking into 50 we need to slow down and be selective about our options.

There is a disconnect between that change of pace.

In addition our running patterns are woeful. Take for example the incident where Jefferson was injured. 3 Melbourne players jumping for the same ball. WTF? Ots a movie we have seen way too often

Was some great footage on On The Couch this week re Adelaide and how Walker, Tilthorpe and Fogarty move as a unit and rotate in a triangle. Was a joy to behold to see it done well.

Nearly all their entries resulted in a one on one not a pack situation. And the space in the fwd line gave plenty of options for a midfield kicker to kick to advantage

here's the other thing about having lots of space. You dont need to be accurate with your kicking. You only need to kick it to the advantage of your forward.

Do that and you look like a genius.

 

This is what I don't understand with us. They spoke about the young guys we brought in and how most of them were up forward so cohesion was low. I don't get how the whole forward group wasn't drilling in movement patterns all summer, no matter who it was in there. "You move out there, I move out here and back inwards" etc. 

Forward line movement has been lacking for so long and I don't know why. 

11 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I saw no sign of any intent to do things differently in regards to F50 entries. 

Of course. Because everything that players do on the field - turnovers, clangers, miskicks, dropped marks, OOB on the full, free kicks given, points that could have been goals - all those things happen because players intend them to.

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

This is what I don't understand with us. They spoke about the young guys we brought in and how most of them were up forward so cohesion was low. I don't get how the whole forward group wasn't drilling in movement patterns all summer, no matter who it was in there. "You move out there, I move out here and back inwards" etc. 

Forward line movement has been lacking for so long and I don't know why. 

another q that relates to that - when was the last time any of forwards did a 'hook lead'? i honestly can't remember seeing it; you obviously can't see that on tv but at the ground i find it really noticeable how much our forwards lead once and...that's it

our second efforts leave a lot to be desired across the ground

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

I don't get how the whole forward group wasn't drilling in movement patterns all summer, no matter who it was in there.

They were.

Just now, bing181 said:

They were.

Exactly, which raises other questions. 

14 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

I saw snippets of some of the commentary and analysis on the various footy shows, of our loss to North, the focus was on the third quarter when we had 19 inside 50’s for 2 goals before being smashed in the last. The vision the analyst showed was quite damning and looking at a replay this arvo of the third you just have to scratch your head at what is going on at the club. It’s total Groundhog Day watching Viney just banging it 40m forward to a nest of NMFC backs whilst there are 3 loose players forward of him, in the corridor, with their arms in the air. It wasn’t just Viney, it was Oliver, Rivers, Turner, even Lindsay blazing away for an out of bounds.  Part of the blame sits with the players but really I am exasperated with our coaching staff. 56 F50 entries in the game for a 9% success rate! 

i still remember when we basically coughed up the 2023 Premiership with our 7 point loss to the Pies after managing 69 to 37 inside F50s!  A sobering stat I remember someone posted back then was that final was one of only 3 times that a side had ever lost after having a F50 + differential of that margin. The sample size was 2000 plus games and guess what of the 3 losses listed we were the culprits twice. 
 

That failure should have been seared into our coaching staff’s collective brains, never to occur again, but no we have soldiered on with the same one dimensional and predictable delivery ever since, while saying every year since we are working on a new style to improve our “forward connection”! I just don’t get it.

It should be drilled into our ball carriers to look for closer options at every opportunity. Forward of centre the ball carrier  should be looking to a corridor option and our mids should be busting their guts to be a corridor option. After all at other clubs, players don’t have to look, they are handballing or chipping the ball inboard, knowing a team mate will be running onto it.

We would all love a Wayne Carey up forward but it won’t happen, after 4 years of forward disconnection, what we do need is a new head coach! 
 

I seriously can't work out what we're trying to do with our forwardline. They all seem to hover around in their starting positions rather than creating any actual space or movement. We have shown a desire to take the corridor more but it's all in vain as we get to our front half the half forwards are all flat-footed and too close to the midfielders and so we just boot it to the same spot that's easy to defend.

You watch other sides and they'll have some of their forward push up closer to the contest, a couple sit deep and then hold a shape that will allow them to lead into space or at least compete in a one on one. Our forwards just seem to hold their position then when the ball comes in they all try and jump for the same ball and run into each other as a result.

It shouldn't be as hard as we make it look.

On 26/03/2025 at 10:29, Macca said:

Our dysfunctional forward line is now creating issues in other areas of the ground.  Notably our defence (which against North, was under seige) 

If the opposition are able to rebound quickly out of our forward line, they'll find easy routes to goal

Teams are no longer happy to just boot the ball down the line out of the opposition forward lines

The sport has moved on with teams using handball & kicking skills when rebounding out of defence (at pace)

So if we can't lock the ball in our own forward line, we're effectively setting the opposition up to score (with our long bombs)

We need to change the way we advance the ball forward ... quick smart

Our backline was under siege because our mids let their mids walk it out of stoppage.

45 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Our backline was under siege because our mids let their mids walk it out of stoppage.

What about North's rebound from their defence and all those intercept marks?

Also, the rebound from GWS

Edited Thursday at 01:504 days by Macca