22 minutes ago, Gator said:

If the coach has got eyes he would have said it.  I assume he has eyes.

I'll be mildly shocked if Jefferson makes it at AFL level.  He simply doesn't have the physicality or contested ability required.  Naturally, I hope I'm wrong, because wasting pick 15 makes me want to puke.  

As I posted about a week ago Jeffo despite all the naysayers has made considerable progress since halfway through the VFL/AFL season last year.

For many to trot out the same old lacks physical presence or physique, and competitiveness, ste simply ignoring facts.

He kicked 30 goals in the season even with JVR in his last season in the VFL.  So it must be recognised that he has some goal kicking potential.

I actually believe he has more footy forward smarts and tricks than Rooyey and recognise he is a different player who will add a different dimension to our forward list.

Examples of that are his snapshots marking skills leading and ability to find the ball on the ground. In saying this I am not underestimating JVR and his great physical presence in flying plus his marking team play or follow up whether as a forward or in the ruck. 

Jeffo has put in up to 8/9/10 kgs on the last 2 seasons and also plays as a natural forward with his kills and is just as good a kick for goal as JVR both being very accurate compared to dome of our other forwards. 

As I mentioned Goody ( Selection Cttee) picked Jeffo as an emergency for the last 3 AFL games last year so he then must have satisfied many of the doubts about his readiness for the top grade.

He as I have previously suggested may be able to play a half forward flank/ forward pocket role roaming when he debuts which means he would probably escape a 1,2,or3 defender marking him. 

I can’t wait for him to debut and yes he may not star at first but I believe his development pattern like JVR has been well handled by the Club.

With Turner Fritta and Johnson plus our other mediums Trac Langford and Lindsay and smalls Kossie Chin and hopefully Brown and I would like AMW to be tried as a HFF.

Season 2025 is going to be different for its change and game plan plus our youth and Jeffo is going to be an exciting watch when he gets his chance. All the best for his career and I will be mildly shocked if he doesn’t end up marking a name for himself on out forward line in the future.

The doubters will then be the ones with a pleasant surprise and at ease experience as a result. 

 

Jefferson averaged 2 goals a game when playing fwd at Casey in 2024. Transfer that into the AFL and he is a weapon.

The more experience at senior levels he gets, the more consistent and confident he will become. A JVR and Jefferson combo could be dynamite in years to come. Two very different types of players to match up on. 

3 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I like JVR in the ruck. He competes hard and is capable in the ruck contests. 

The answer to our forward line functioning is not more targets. It is more pressure, better entries and straight goalkicking. Having JVR in the ruck means we play another player (like Tholstrup or Sparrow) who provide pressure.

 

JVR should have the option of not going into the ruck.

And the answer to our forward is not just more pressure. Having options to kick to is imperative to attract the ball to the right spots. Especially this mid group that is prone to dump footy.

3 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

I still hold hopes for Jefferson.  I think he's now developing the body to compete and he's got footy smarts but as you say his competitiveness is questionable.

As for "wasting pick 15" it's interesting to look at the 2022 ND.  There are only two players that I'd want ahead of Jeffo at this stage.  Weddle would have been very good and Darcy Jones shows lots of promise but apart from that I can't really see one player that would have added value to our list.  And our needs were clearly KPF's so I'm happy with the pick and my stomach is quite settled.

Weddle was basically the next pick and looks like being a star.  But who knows where we had him.

I'm aware it's a [censored] draft after Jefferson and pretty weak all-round, save for a few at the top end.

If every pick after Jefferson fails it's cold comfort.  It's disappointing to have a national draft where the list isn't improved.

Linament sniffers can talk up Jefferson all they like, but there's a reason plenty have doubts.  Why do they think the coaches didn't debut him last year ?  I don't see anywhere near the competitiveness required to succeed at AFL level.

People talk about his body and how he's bigger.  People constantly like to make excuses.  He was big enough last year to put his body on the line.  I know he has talent.  I've seen it.  Talent isn't his problem.  AFL level is a different beast.

2 hours ago, Gator said:

Weddle was basically the next pick

I didn't know that...

It's no comfort that nearly every other club passed him over.

Lets hope Jeffo comes good, but like you I'm not yet sold.

Edited January 1Jan 1 by rjay

Weddle is Jayden Hunt with good PR

15 hours ago, Gator said:

Weddle was basically the next pick and looks like being a star.  But who knows where we had him.

I'm aware it's a [censored] draft after Jefferson and pretty weak all-round, save for a few at the top end.

If every pick after Jefferson fails it's cold comfort.  It's disappointing to have a national draft where the list isn't improved.

Linament sniffers can talk up Jefferson all they like, but there's a reason plenty have doubts.  Why do they think the coaches didn't debut him last year ?  I don't see anywhere near the competitiveness required to succeed at AFL level.

People talk about his body and how he's bigger.  People constantly like to make excuses.  He was big enough last year to put his body on the line.  I know he has talent.  I've seen it.  Talent isn't his problem.  AFL level is a different beast.

They are saying MJ is not ready yet not that he is not going to make it in 2024. Goody had him as an emergency for 3 weeks in a row as a reward. 

Now that he is having his third pre season and has put on more weight again and is quite a big size he will be more confident to start his AFL career. 

Like McVee it’s a timing issue and development is all important. Stop looking on the half glass empty and give him the support he needs to add to his career. I have every confidence and look forward to him debuting early in 2025. 

 

15 hours ago, rjay said:

I didn't know that...

It's no comfort that nearly every other club passed him over.

Lets hope Jeffo comes good, but like you I'm not yet sold.

How could anyone be sold on jeffo yet?

He's yet to play an AFL game, and until he does its all supposition on whether he'll make it.

Before making his AFL debut i was very confident JVR would make it, but even with him you still had to wait and see how he went before being certain he had what it takes (and there is no doubt he does).

My query on Jeffo from the get go is whether his second and third efforts were instinctive and whether he had the want for the contest.

I hate to say it (because it feels like an unnecessary potshot at weed), but in that respect the player he reminds me most of is weed.

Those concerns, particularly the latter, were somewhat assuaged in the second half of the 2024 VFL season.

He started attacking the ball, on the ground and in the air, with much more intensity and his performance level demonstrably improved as a result.

Maintaining that intensity is a non negotiable if he wants to make it as an AFL player.

The key forwards role is now as much about crashing marking contests and making sure the ball comes to ground as it is kicking goals.

Key forwards also now have to be strong defensively when the ball hits the deck, and pressure and tackle fiercely - attributes JVR has in spades (id be pretty confident he averages more tackles than any other key forward in the game).

That takes intensity, preparedness to get smashed and physicality. And that's what Jeffo will need to bring week in, week out if he is to make the cut.

The club have extended his contract so they obviously have faith he can make it.

And key forwards taking time to find their feet is a cliche because ots true.

That said, I'm hopeful, but not confident, jeffo will make it.

Edited January 1Jan 1 by binman

1 hour ago, binman said:

How could anyone be sold on jeffo yet?

He's yet to play an AFL game, and until he does its all supposition on whether he'll make it.

Before making his AFL debut i was very confident JVR would make it, but even with him you still had to wait and see how he went before being certain he had what it takes (and there is no doubt he does).

My query on Jeffo from the get go is whether his second and third efforts were instinctive and whether he had the want for the contest.

I hate to say it (because it feels like an unnecessary potshot at weed), but in that respect the player he reminds me most of is weed.

Those concerns, particularly the latter, were somewhat assuaged in the second half of the 2024 VFL season.

He started attacking the ball, on the ground and in the air, with much more intensity and his performance level demonstrably improved as a result.

Maintaining that intensity is a non negotiable if he wants to make it as an AFL player.

The key forwards role is now as much about crashing marking contests and making sure the ball comes to ground as it is kicking goals.

Key forwards also now have to be strong defensively when the ball hits the deck, and pressure and tackle fiercely - attributes JVR has in spades (id be pretty confident he averages more tackles than any other key forward in the game).

That takes intensity, preparedness to get smashed and physicality. And that's what Jeffo will need to bring week in, week out if he is to make the cut.

The club have extended his contract so they obviously have faith he can make it.

And key forwards taking time to find their feet is a cliche because ots true.

That said, I'm hopeful, but not confident, jeffo will make it.

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as this. Fritta doesn't really bring much of any of those traits, but he is an instinctive goal scorer, and that's often all that matters. Sure, he can tackle at ground level, but he's often the cherry on top with others around him like Kozzy, Chandler and even JVR doing the brunt of that work.

I'm not sold on Jefferson as he doesn't seem as instinctive as Fritta around goal, so he's going to have to, as you say, bring the intensity at most contests.

1 hour ago, binman said:

And key forwards taking time to find their feet is a cliche because ots true.

Maybe, maybe not.

It's trotted out a lot to defend a young forward making his way in football.

Unfortunately it can hold too long...think Weid, Cook, Watts etc. etc.

Yes, it can take time for a KPF top be consistent at the top level but most that reach this point are playing senior football in the first year or two.

Once it gets beyond this then it's less likely they will make it.

15 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as this. Fritta doesn't really bring much of any of those traits, but he is an instinctive goal scorer, and that's often all that matters. Sure, he can tackle at ground level, but he's often the cherry on top with others around him like Kozzy, Chandler and even JVR doing the brunt of that work.

I'm not sold on Jefferson as he doesn't seem as instinctive as Fritta around goal, so he's going to have to, as you say, bring the intensity at most contests.

Sure, but fritter is not a key forward.

And besides, fritters intensity, after significantly improving previously, was decidedly average last season and if ot remains so, even with his ability to kick goals, i could see him being dropped.

2 hours ago, binman said:

Sure, but fritter is not a key forward.

And besides, fritters intensity, after significantly improving previously, was decidedly average last season and if ot remains so, even with his ability to kick goals, i could see him being dropped.

Goodman is not necessarily a coach who drops. Look at the time he kept ANB on board till pre 2021 when he offered him a transfer but he could find one!’ After all that time. And I have a feeling that Chin Chandler is in stage  of development if he doesn’t kick more goals he should not be anywhere near an auto selection as most D/Lers have gone in 2025 teams. 

I haven’t even got him in my 27/28 including emergencies. 

55 minutes ago, 58er said:

Goodman is not necessarily a coach who drops. Look at the time he kept ANB on board till pre 2021 when he offered him a transfer but he could find one!’ After all that time. And I have a feeling that Chin Chandler is in stage  of development if he doesn’t kick more goals he should not be anywhere near an auto selection as most D/Lers have gone in 2025 teams. 

I haven’t even got him in my 27/28 including emergencies. 

How can you not have Chandler in your 28 Who's in front of him?

Best team

B: Lever, May, McVee

HB: Salem, Petty, Windsor
C: Sharp, Rivers, Langdon

HF: Petracca, Johnson, Pickett

F: Fritsch, van Rooyen, Turner
FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, Viney

IC: Bowey, Langford, Lindsay, Chandler

SUB: Melksham

EMERG: Tholstrup, Sparrow, Jefferson

DEPTH: McDonald, Howes, Moniz-Wakefield

We only go 29 deep how can Chandler not be in the 28?

20 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Best team

B: Lever, May, McVee

HB: Salem, Petty, Windsor
C: Sharp, Rivers, Langdon

HF: Petracca, Johnson, Pickett

F: Fritsch, van Rooyen, Turner
FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, Viney

IC: Bowey, Langford, Lindsay, Chandler

SUB: Melksham

EMERG: Tholstrup, Sparrow, Jefferson

DEPTH: McDonald, Howes, Moniz-Wakefield

We only go 29 deep how can Chandler not be in the 28?

Tholstrup will be in the 22.

On 01/01/2025 at 10:13, Redleg said:

It is abundantly clear given the selection discussions, that our depth is better than last year and that is certainly helpful for the coming season.

I think it’s the first year our list has improved since 2021.

6 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Tholstrup will be in the 22.

I don't know the only player I'd have him ahead of is Sharp. Can Tholstrup play wing? If he can great but if he can't he's not in the 22 but it doesn't matter as Pickett is suspended for 3 weeks allowing Tholstrup and Sharp to be in the same side.

Edited January 2Jan 2 by WERRIDEE

7 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

How can you not have Chandler in your 28 Who's in front of him?

For all the talk about Chandlers pressure, he lacks one thing pivotal for a forward... GOALS he just does not score ENOUGH of them! I would like to see Brown dog, Woey and even AMW trialled in Chandlers spot. Wonder if Harvey Langford is worth a shot there as well. Chandler nowhere near a walk up start IMO Note, I already had Toltoys and Sharp in my 23!

Edited January 2Jan 2 by picket fence

10 hours ago, binman said:

Sure, but fritter is not a key forward.

And besides, fritters intensity, after significantly improving previously, was decidedly average last season and if ot remains so, even with his ability to kick goals, i could see him being dropped.

Better odds of winning tattslotto, world peace or a Tom Sparrow break out year than our best forward ever getting dropped

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

For all the talk about Chandlers pressure, he lacks one thing pivotal for a forward... GOALS he just does not score ENOUGH of them! I would like to see Brown dog, Woey and even AMW trialled in Chandlers spot. Wonder if Harvey Langford is worth a shot there as well. Chandler nowhere near a walk up start IMO Note, I already had Toltoys and Sharp in my 23!

24 in 23 and 18 in 24 ain't bad, it could be better and hopefully it will be better this year. To say he's not in the best 23 by round 1 this year is just plain stupid.

He's a good little player to say that Brown or Woewodin should take his place is dumb they ain't forwards Moniz maybe but he's making his way as a half back ATM so I say keep him there. The way Salem has played the last few years and the way Bowey played last year he has more chance getting in front of them than getting ahead of Chandler.

I don't see where the hatred has come from? He is a more certain starter in the 23 than your love child Jefferson. Jefferson gives me Weid vibes. Weid was good in the VFL just couldn't handle the expectations at AFL level.

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

24 in 23 and 18 in 24 ain't bad, it could be better and hopefully it will be better this year. To say he's not in the best 23 by round 1 this year is just plain stupid.

He's a good little player to say that Brown or Woewodin should take his place is dumb they ain't forwards Moniz maybe but he's making his way as a half back ATM so I say keep him there. The way Salem has played the last few years and the way Bowey played last year he has more chance getting in front of them than getting ahead of Chandler.

I don't see where the hatred has come from? He is a more certain starter in the 23 than your love child Jefferson. Jefferson gives me Weid vibes. Weid was good in the VFL just couldn't handle the expectations at AFL level.

I Think in time Brown or AMW could replace Chin with pressure plus the benefit of kicking more and harder goals. 
That’s  by the end or during the season.

11 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

How can you not have Chandler in your 28 Who's in front of him?

By end of 2025 for HFF 

Tholstrup Brown AMW Pickett Petracca Sharp are all capable of playing that position plus Langford or  Lindsay may be suitable. Fristch is also capable of playing HFF role and from left field I think even Jefferson may ba skilled enough as well in his earlier debut games. 

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

For all the talk about Chandlers pressure, he lacks one thing pivotal for a forward... GOALS he just does not score ENOUGH of them! I would like to see Brown dog, Woey and even AMW trialled in Chandlers spot. Wonder if Harvey Langford is worth a shot there as well. Chandler nowhere near a walk up start IMO Note, I already had Toltoys and Sharp in my 23!

Agreed PK that goals are priceless and pressure important but others Zibtjink will do both. 

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

24 in 23 and 18 in 24 ain't bad, it could be better and hopefully it will be better this year. To say he's not in the best 23 by round 1 this year is just plain stupid.

He's a good little player to say that Brown or Woewodin should take his place is dumb they ain't forwards Moniz maybe but he's making his way as a half back ATM so I say keep him there. The way Salem has played the last few years and the way Bowey played last year he has more chance getting in front of them than getting ahead of Chandler.

I don't see where the hatred has come from? He is a more certain starter in the 23 than your love child Jefferson. Jefferson gives me Weid vibes. Weid was good in the VFL just couldn't handle the expectations at AFL level.

It’s not hatred Chin is a fine clubman and very determined and goes in hard. But the others are IMO a better potential for thst spot of HFF in the end. All will kick more GOALS I have no doubt. 

16 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Best team

B: Lever, May, McVee

HB: Salem, Petty, Windsor
C: Sharp, Rivers, Langdon

HF: Petracca, Johnson, Pickett

F: Fritsch, van Rooyen, Turner
FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, Viney

IC: Bowey, Langford, Lindsay, Chandler

SUB: Melksham

EMERG: Tholstrup, Sparrow, Jefferson

DEPTH: McDonald, Howes, Moniz-Wakefield

We only go 29 deep how can Chandler not be in the 28?

I am confused how you can have Lindsay in the side when he has been in rehab pretty much all preseason so far and if I understand comments wont join full training til end of January. 

What do you base this on? 

Unrelated, I love Melksham and think he will offer fantastic depth and assist player development but if he is in the side more than a handful of times this year (even as sub) our list has not developed and I doubt we are playing finals. We must start to see up and coming players pass him by,