2 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

All good points

For you , what is the point where you think enough is enough?

Let’s get specific

0-12?

X-Y at the bye

End Of season no matter what? Even if 2-21? 4-19? 7-16?

It’s a good question. To put it simply in wins and losses, I would accept it if we had a 2019-type year, which I think was 4 wins? Could be wrong, might be less.

So to answer your question, I probably would give him the year no matter what (within reason - no wins could be a stretch), I think he’s earned that. If we’re worried about the age of Gawn, May and Viney, then wasting the rest of the this year with a caretaker, then bringing in a new coach with new systems next year, effectively gives up on whatever good footy they have left in them anyway.

59 minutes ago, Maximum Gawn said:

It would be a massive mistake to sack Goodwin. Especially in the middle of this season. I would have thought our most successful coach in 60 years would have earned more grace than being sacked after missing the finals once followed by a bad start to the year. Make no mistake this is the veil of negativity at play.

Be patient. Accept that form fluctuations are part of the game, especially when trying to rebuild and change game style at the same time. Support your club. Let’s not be Carlton.

The fact is the club was expecting finals and we currently look like bottom four and have several stars who have tried and are trying to leave the club.

How much patience do you give him to turn this around? The rest of the season? The rest of his contract? Do you reset expectations and embrace a rebuild? Is he even the right coach to take on that task?

Better coaches than Goodwin have been sacked by stronger clubs than Melbourne.

53 minutes ago, Maximum Gawn said:

I just struggle to understand what the coach has done, in terms of on field results, to warrant such adamant calls for his sacking. He’s made the finals 50% of his time in charge. Picked us up off the bottom of the ladder once before to win a flag two years later. Who says he can’t do it again? Why does an unknown quantity in a new coach deserve more support than someone we already have who’s proven he can get us playing great footy, in multiple game styles?

I think he deserves much more benefit of the doubt when there are many things up in the air about the club, no CEO for example.

You're certainly not wrong but his record is abnormal and kind of weird.

1. Misses finals by a record small percentage margin. Team has an opportunity to lock away its first finals appearance in more than a decade. It just needs to deal with a struggling Collingwood. Melbourne is outright favourites. We don't lay a tackle in the first 12 minutes of the game and are playing catchup the whole time.

2. 2018 was mostly great with some awesome wins and two great finals wins. We also put in the worst Preliminary Final performance this century and one of the worst of all time. Classic Melbourne.

3. We become the first team in history to mismanage off-season players surgeries so bad that we somehow go from 4th to second last. Boggles the mind how 2019 even happened. Show me another club that bundled itself out of contention so quickly and aggressively.

4. We limp through most of 2020 but still have a chance to play finals. Instead we choke against Sydney and Freo who were both struggling.

5. 2021 was great was obvious reasons.

6. 2022 we start 10-0 before being bundled out in straight sets and ending the season with 6 wins and 8 losses.

7. In 2023 we linger around the top 4 all season and choke twice in huge finals. We've now lost four straight finals at home, ALL of which we started the game as favourites in.

8. 2024 we miss finals completely after limping through the second half of the year. Multiple 10+ goal beatings, losses to West Coast, gave up a 50 point lead to North, 100 point loss to Freo.

9. 2025 looking destined to be bottom four despite having a squad made up 15 premiership players and four top 10 picks from the past two years.

He has the history of bouncing back, I'll give him that. But this is just a weird coaching record.

2 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Did they already scrap his segment on 360?

I’m giving all parties the benefit of the doubt here and assume that because the show was over in Adelaide for Gather Round there was no room for his segment this week.

In the unlikely event that Goodwin’s already pulled the pin on the segment, then it tells me he’s feeling the pressure in the worst possible way. He’s already appeared to have canned his own post game MFC website segment after just one week.

1 hour ago, Maximum Gawn said:

Forward entries were in great shape in 2021 and much of 2022.

We ranked 14th for goals per inside 50 and 12th for marks per inside 50 in 2022.

Our entries were not good.

Our defence was ranked #1 and it papered over the cracks we are now seeing.

Even whilst we were winning 5-6-7-8 games straight, the one knock against us that footy analysts in the media pointed out, was our lack of efficiency going forward. I remember it clearly as I was waiting for us to click and it didn’t happen.

It’s been a problem for years.

Edited Wednesday at 12:284 days by BoBo

1 hour ago, BoBo said:

We ranked 14th for goals per inside 50 and 12th for marks per inside 50 in 2022.

Our entries were not good.

Our defence was ranked #1 and it papered over the cracks we are now seeing.

Even whilst we were winning 5-6-7-8 games straight, the one knock against us that footy analysts in the media pointed out, was our lack of efficiency going forward. I remember it clearly as I was waiting for us to click and it didn’t happen.

It’s been a problem for years.

Probably for a different thread, and I take your points about our rankings but I think those stats might be slightly misleading for 2022. Our game plan clearly didn’t place a high priority on marks inside 50. Instead focussed on contest, defence and pressure as avenues to score.

Likewise the goals per inside 50 stat is a bit misleading because our game plan was based on forward half turnovers and repeat inside 50s. Great if you can score from the first I50 but we were actually relying more on scoring from the second, third or fourth one. So a lopsided ratio there was actually potentially a good sign for us.

Obviously this got figured out and countered by better kicking and faster ball movement over the last couple of years. But when it was humming it was very effective. The stats might say one thing but to the eye the plan was mostly working in ‘21 and ‘22.

1 hour ago, praha said:

You're certainly not wrong but his record is abnormal and kind of weird.

1. Misses finals by a record small percentage margin. Team has an opportunity to lock away its first finals appearance in more than a decade. It just needs to deal with a struggling Collingwood. Melbourne is outright favourites. We don't lay a tackle in the first 12 minutes of the game and are playing catchup the whole time.

2. 2018 was mostly great with some awesome wins and two great finals wins. We also put in the worst Preliminary Final performance this century and one of the worst of all time. Classic Melbourne.

3. We become the first team in history to mismanage off-season players surgeries so bad that we somehow go from 4th to second last. Boggles the mind how 2019 even happened. Show me another club that bundled itself out of contention so quickly and aggressively.

4. We limp through most of 2020 but still have a chance to play finals. Instead we choke against Sydney and Freo who were both struggling.

5. 2021 was great was obvious reasons.

6. 2022 we start 10-0 before being bundled out in straight sets and ending the season with 6 wins and 8 losses.

7. In 2023 we linger around the top 4 all season and choke twice in huge finals. We've now lost four straight finals at home, ALL of which we started the game as favourites in.

8. 2024 we miss finals completely after limping through the second half of the year. Multiple 10+ goal beatings, losses to West Coast, gave up a 50 point lead to North, 100 point loss to Freo.

9. 2025 looking destined to be bottom four despite having a squad made up 15 premiership players and four top 10 picks from the past two years.

He has the history of bouncing back, I'll give him that. But this is just a weird coaching record.

There has always been an undertone of uncertainty with this team. I’ll admit there was a time in’21 where I had complete trust but before it started to come undone pretty soon after that in ‘22.

12 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Did they already scrap his segment on 360?

Would it be something to do with Gather Round? 360 is already there and MFC are still in Melbs. Maybe they are waiting till next week.

11 hours ago, Maximum Gawn said:

It’s a good question. To put it simply in wins and losses, I would accept it if we had a 2019-type year, which I think was 4 wins? Could be wrong, might be less.

So to answer your question, I probably would give him the year no matter what (within reason - no wins could be a stretch), I think he’s earned that. If we’re worried about the age of Gawn, May and Viney, then wasting the rest of the this year with a caretaker, then bringing in a new coach with new systems next year, effectively gives up on whatever good footy they have left in them anyway.

Some caretakers take the shackles off and tell the players to just go on instinct. A list like ours, tied into ribbons by trying to play two separate game plans at the moment, but stacked full of talent, would surely benefit from this. If we pull the trigger now and get guys playing for fun again, we'll be far better placed for coach and trade targets.

Goodwin is getting nothing from this list. They're confused, unhappy and clearly over his message. Well done to him on a great stint, but good clubs know when to say bye bye.

9 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

Some caretakers take the shackles off and tell the players to just go on instinct. A list like ours, tied into ribbons by trying to play two separate game plans at the moment, but stacked full of talent, would surely benefit from this. If we pull the trigger now and get guys playing for fun again, we'll be far better placed for coach and trade targets.

Goodwin is getting nothing from this list. They're confused, unhappy and clearly over his message. Well done to him on a great stint, but good clubs know when to say bye bye.

But what about the Love?

10 minutes ago, Kent said:

But what about the Love?

I'd love it if he was gone

11 hours ago, Maximum Gawn said:

I just struggle to understand what the coach has done, in terms of on field results, to warrant such adamant calls for his sacking. He’s made the finals 50% of his time in charge. Picked us up off the bottom of the ladder once before to win a flag two years later. Who says he can’t do it again? Why does an unknown quantity in a new coach deserve more support than someone we already have who’s proven he can get us playing great footy, in multiple game styles?

I think he deserves much more benefit of the doubt when there are many things up in the air about the club, no CEO for example.

Compare him to the likes of Chris Scott or Fagan. Who had a similar talent at their clubs.

Goodwin has been very inconsistent, remember 2017,2019, 2020, 2024.

Way too many bad years in my view.

11 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

The fact is the club was expecting finals and we currently look like bottom four and have several stars who have tried and are trying to leave the club.

How much patience do you give him to turn this around? The rest of the season? The rest of his contract? Do you reset expectations and embrace a rebuild? Is he even the right coach to take on that task?

Better coaches than Goodwin have been sacked by stronger clubs than Melbourne.

Definitely he shouldn't remain the coach if we are indeed going to a full rebuild.

10 hours ago, praha said:

You're certainly not wrong but his record is abnormal and kind of weird.

1. Misses finals by a record small percentage margin. Team has an opportunity to lock away its first finals appearance in more than a decade. It just needs to deal with a struggling Collingwood. Melbourne is outright favourites. We don't lay a tackle in the first 12 minutes of the game and are playing catchup the whole time.

2. 2018 was mostly great with some awesome wins and two great finals wins. We also put in the worst Preliminary Final performance this century and one of the worst of all time. Classic Melbourne.

3. We become the first team in history to mismanage off-season players surgeries so bad that we somehow go from 4th to second last. Boggles the mind how 2019 even happened. Show me another club that bundled itself out of contention so quickly and aggressively.

4. We limp through most of 2020 but still have a chance to play finals. Instead we choke against Sydney and Freo who were both struggling.

5. 2021 was great was obvious reasons.

6. 2022 we start 10-0 before being bundled out in straight sets and ending the season with 6 wins and 8 losses.

7. In 2023 we linger around the top 4 all season and choke twice in huge finals. We've now lost four straight finals at home, ALL of which we started the game as favourites in.

8. 2024 we miss finals completely after limping through the second half of the year. Multiple 10+ goal beatings, losses to West Coast, gave up a 50 point lead to North, 100 point loss to Freo.

9. 2025 looking destined to be bottom four despite having a squad made up 15 premiership players and four top 10 picks from the past two years.

He has the history of bouncing back, I'll give him that. But this is just a weird coaching record.

And 2019 happened to be vital for 2021. Goodwin got lucky, the talent that JT gave him out of the misery that was 2019.

I am not sure we have 2021 without Kozzy, Jackson and to a lesser degree Rivers.

10 hours ago, praha said:

You're certainly not wrong but his record is abnormal and kind of weird.

1. Misses finals by a record small percentage margin. Team has an opportunity to lock away its first finals appearance in more than a decade. It just needs to deal with a struggling Collingwood. Melbourne is outright favourites. We don't lay a tackle in the first 12 minutes of the game and are playing catchup the whole time.

2. 2018 was mostly great with some awesome wins and two great finals wins. We also put in the worst Preliminary Final performance this century and one of the worst of all time. Classic Melbourne.

3. We become the first team in history to mismanage off-season players surgeries so bad that we somehow go from 4th to second last. Boggles the mind how 2019 even happened. Show me another club that bundled itself out of contention so quickly and aggressively.

4. We limp through most of 2020 but still have a chance to play finals. Instead we choke against Sydney and Freo who were both struggling.

5. 2021 was great was obvious reasons.

6. 2022 we start 10-0 before being bundled out in straight sets and ending the season with 6 wins and 8 losses.

7. In 2023 we linger around the top 4 all season and choke twice in huge finals. We've now lost four straight finals at home, ALL of which we started the game as favourites in.

8. 2024 we miss finals completely after limping through the second half of the year. Multiple 10+ goal beatings, losses to West Coast, gave up a 50 point lead to North, 100 point loss to Freo.

9. 2025 looking destined to be bottom four despite having a squad made up 15 premiership players and four top 10 picks from the past two years.

He has the history of bouncing back, I'll give him that. But this is just a weird coaching record.

No wonder opposition supporters keep telling us he ain't that.

goodwin's record of three consecutive top 4 finishes at the end of the home and away season, including a premiership, is the most successful three year period we've had since the 1960s under norm smith

daniher's record was up and down and northey was our last 'consistently competitive' coach from 87-91 inclusive, and both those sides were always good but not quite great at the end of every season - they always fell short year after year

balme had one great year and lost every key pillar to injury, bailey was on a hiding to nothing, and neeld was an incredibly divisive and distruptive presence that required paul roos to come in and calm the farm

goodwin deserves the rest of the year imo

at the end of the season a calm and considered opinion by a new ceo and a board with a new president in charge is warranted

he may survive; he may not

Goodwin deserves to stay a bit but he needs to take the shackles off and let the talented players play the game they love, he will surely gets stacks more out of them if he does this.

I know he probably won't though.

4 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

goodwin's record of three consecutive top 4 finishes at the end of the home and away season, including a premiership, is the most successful three year period we've had since the 1960s under norm smith

daniher's record was up and down and northey was our last 'consistently competitive' coach from 87-91 inclusive, and both those sides were always good but not quite great at the end of every season - they always fell short year after year

balme had one great year and lost every key pillar to injury, bailey was on a hiding to nothing, and neeld was an incredibly divisive and distruptive presence that required paul roos to come in and calm the farm

goodwin deserves the rest of the year imo

at the end of the season a calm and considered opinion by a new ceo and a board with a new president in charge is warranted

he may survive; he may not

For the sake of the future of the club, he must go now. I will remember the highs of 21, but his legacy will be decimating a top quality list. The members have spoken with a 15% drop off. People just don’t want to watch his trash gameplan

Just now, whatwhat say what said:

goodwin's record of three consecutive top 4 finishes at the end of the home and away season, including a premiership, is the most successful three year period we've had since the 1960s under norm smith

daniher's record was up and down and northey was our last 'consistently competitive' coach from 87-91 inclusive, and both those sides were always good but not quite great at the end of every season - they always fell short year after year

balme had one great year and lost every key pillar to injury, bailey was on a hiding to nothing, and neeld was an incredibly divisive and distruptive presence that required paul roos to come in and calm the farm

goodwin deserves the rest of the year imo

at the end of the season a calm and considered opinion by a new ceo and a board with a new president in charge is warranted

he may survive; he may not

That record really says more about our club's shortcomings than Goodwin as a coach.

The results we are seeing right now are as bad as we saw in Neeld's first year with a far superior list. That trend simply cannot continue for a whole season.

I've seen some argue that it takes time to learn a new gameplan, and I agree to an extent, but the transition cannot and should not be this bad. We've been told the team is working on their forward entries for years they are as bad as they've ever been. Collingwood learned a new gameplan in one off-season that took them from second last to top 4 in 2022. Ditto for GWS in 23. Geelong also changed the way they played after 2021 and won a flag the following year. There are teething issues and there's being completely uncompetitive and out of sync with each other.

If we're in the same position at the bye I would say he absolutely does not deserve to finish out the season. It will be incumbent on the club to start looking towards the future.

11 hours ago, praha said:

You're certainly not wrong but his record is abnormal and kind of weird.

1. Misses finals by a record small percentage margin. Team has an opportunity to lock away its first finals appearance in more than a decade. It just needs to deal with a struggling Collingwood. Melbourne is outright favourites. We don't lay a tackle in the first 12 minutes of the game and are playing catchup the whole time.

2. 2018 was mostly great with some awesome wins and two great finals wins. We also put in the worst Preliminary Final performance this century and one of the worst of all time. Classic Melbourne.

3. We become the first team in history to mismanage off-season players surgeries so bad that we somehow go from 4th to second last. Boggles the mind how 2019 even happened. Show me another club that bundled itself out of contention so quickly and aggressively.

4. We limp through most of 2020 but still have a chance to play finals. Instead we choke against Sydney and Freo who were both struggling.

5. 2021 was great was obvious reasons.

6. 2022 we start 10-0 before being bundled out in straight sets and ending the season with 6 wins and 8 losses.

7. In 2023 we linger around the top 4 all season and choke twice in huge finals. We've now lost four straight finals at home, ALL of which we started the game as favourites in.

8. 2024 we miss finals completely after limping through the second half of the year. Multiple 10+ goal beatings, losses to West Coast, gave up a 50 point lead to North, 100 point loss to Freo.

9. 2025 looking destined to be bottom four despite having a squad made up 15 premiership players and four top 10 picks from the past two years.

He has the history of bouncing back, I'll give him that. But this is just a weird coaching record.

Much of this read as being mental. Betwixt the ears.

14 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

That record really says more about our club's shortcomings than Goodwin as a coach.

The results we are seeing right now are as bad as we saw in Neeld's first year with a far superior list. That trend simply cannot continue for a whole season.

I've seen some argue that it takes time to learn a new gameplan, and I agree to an extent, but the transition cannot and should not be this bad. We've been told the team is working on their forward entries for years they are as bad as they've ever been. Collingwood learned a new gameplan in one off-season that took them from second last to top 4 in 2022. Ditto for GWS in 23. Geelong also changed the way they played after 2021 and won a flag the following year. There are teething issues and there's being completely uncompetitive and out of sync with each other.

If we're in the same position at the bye I would say he absolutely does not deserve to finish out the season. It will be incumbent on the club to start looking towards the future.

Agree

I think the comparisons with other Melbourne coaches re consistency are irrelevant. What matters is what he is doing with this list and how we’re playing

Personally I think it in the club’s interests he go soon

Nekminute: Mfc wins every game including 3 finals including the GF

1 minute ago, Superunknown said:

Agree

I think the comparisons with other Melbourne coaches re consistency are irrelevant. What matters is what he is doing with this list and how we’re playing

Personally I think it in the club’s interests he go soon

Nekminute: Mfc wins every game including 3 finals including the GF

Ultimately, the moment the club no longer believes he is the man to take us forward is the moment he should go. Past achievements count for nothing in that respect. You simply can't afford to be sitting on your hands as a club.

24 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

There are teething issues and there's being completely uncompetitive and out of sync with each other.

Yep, Goodie did foresee some 'teething issues' with the new gameplan but some of the team stats have been confronting. We're not stagnant, we're going backwards.

Add to that our midfield/forward connection has been stuffed for too long.

If we were playing well and losing, you'd ride the storm. If we don't win I want us to be competitive or at least entertaining, and we've failed at that the last 15 games or so.
Goodie deserves all his flowers for his efforts here, but I'm sure he'd realize there needs to be improvement and quick.

1 minute ago, roy11 said:

Yep, Goodie did foresee some 'teething issues' with the new gameplan but some of the team stats have been confronting. We're not stagnant, we're going backwards.

Add to that our midfield/forward connection has been stuffed for too long.

If we were playing well and losing, you'd ride the storm. If we don't win I want us to be competitive or at least entertaining, and we've failed at that the last 15 games or so.
Goodie deserves all his flowers for his efforts here, but I'm sure he'd realize there needs to be improvement and quick.

Think Goodwin knew we were in for some pain late in the pre-season which was why he was tempering expectations. It shouldn't matter as the club planted their stake firmly in the ground last year that the expectation was finals.

I can't think of any moments so far this season that have really shown how we're trying to play in a way that will actually stand up. The players look completely confused and are second guessing themselves, the running patterns are a mess, and guys who won a flag together look like they've never played football with eachother before.

I can't see it suddenly clicking and the team looking like a threat again any time soon. The best we could hope for is that Goodwin releases the shackles and lets the players play on instinct, but to do so would be yet another failure to change the gameplan.

As much as I'm p'ed off about our reverting to the long down the line strategy and already going away from the short kicking game at the back, it's reasonably clear that this is on our senior players in Viney, Trac, Clarry and even Max.

Our ball use when we turn it over (where we are often creating more than enough turnovers to win games), is solely on the shoulders of these guys who are being asked to make better decisions with the footy in hand, and so far, they're incapable of delivering.

Sure, there's very ordinary forward craft in our front half, but the Geelong game was a very good example again of sometimee having 3 or 4 free forwards to kick to, and instead we pick out a nest of Cats. We've done this every week.

We need to find roles for those three mids that maximise their strengths and minimise their weaknesses. Their strength in the stoppages has disappeared in the last three weeks after a flying start against GWS. We need to get back to winning stoppage, but we need receivers for them to give to, or half forwards or CHFs that lead up at the play to give them easier options. And our leaders need to lead and understand their limitations.

Our season and Goody's future hinges on Max finding form and better ball use from Viney, Trac and Clarry.

Edited Thursday at 00:223 days by Adam The God