POSTGAME: Rd 19 vs Fremantle

[leave it to deever 17,511]

17 hours ago, kev martin said:

Cannot believe the chicken littles, sky is falling and the constant disparagement.

Young ones will be inconsistent, it is the next few games that will define our season.

So we lose one, it is not the finish of us as a competitive team.

Keep building Dees.

 

Fair point.

I think it was the manner in which we were beaten. Freo missed quite a few easy shots and also took their foot off the accelerator in the last. It could have easily been another 100 points thumping.

But I guess it wasn't all that bad given Tracca and Max were out.

But the numbers they got to the ball and speed of entry into their forward line made us look so poor.

Also players like Lever and Oliver, Kozzie and Salem didn't really seem too invested.

I didn't expect to win. I mean we were thumped over there by the  cellar dwelling eagles. And I think Freo are an underrated team.

The clearances were embarrassing and I don't think can just be attributed to Max out.

We have some tough games ahead so today have our percentage smashed again is not helpful.

Mathematically we are still well and truly on the hunt but do we have the passion like emerging teams like the dogs and hawks?

Lose next week and it's a fair bet that it's all over.

12 wins and a high percentage will see a finals birth. As Such we need three more wins.

It's strange that we have had games we you can tell on the first ten minutes that we are not switched on.

I don't know why we can be so lethargic at times. In the Carlton game we were shell shocked in the first .( The umps didn't help either) Those four points we just missed out on on that game might just be the difference.

Five tough games ahead.

I hope Max is back next week because that  will definitely be the deciding factor.

Edited July 22 by leave it to deever

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

13 hours ago, loges said:

Yes we were good last week that's why todays effort was so disappointing.

Yeah the inconsistency is something I struggle with. I don't mind losing, but our best and worst is worlds apart. 

[The Taciturn Demon 457]

8 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

It could have easily been another 100 points thumping.

It was very close to being as bad as the NT game. 

Fifty points was not a true reflection at all. 

[von 1,559]

15 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Seeing their star 3 trio developed from the draft bully our midfield was a very clear signal where we're at imo. 

Tbh I don't think the Clarry that won bnfs will return, this year or another. Not buying that his fitness and lack of pre season has anything to do with it.

Whatever happened, it's clear footy is no longer his #1 focus like it once was and he doesn't have the fire, energy or care factor he once did. Once you lose that it's exceptionally hard to recapture. 

Let's face it - even at his ripping best he was hardly a picture of fitness. He was all effort, all heart, all care for his teammates and the win. When that part isn't there he's just a player. 

A trade this off season may be the best thing for all parties. It would be a very sad end to one of the great MFC careers...but an eventuality the fanbase should probably start preparing for. 

None of that is true. You’re just upset.

[loges 6,767]

5 hours ago, Old Time Demon said:

My observations, some of which may have already been posted:

* Salem, and to a lesser extent Oliver, have not "come up" after their respective health crises.  Throw an injured Max and Trac into that mix and there is around 4/5 goals per game or maybe 8/10 shots at goal as a result of their influence.  Fritta, for one, relies on their ball winning/setting up skills.  Further, don't forget Charlie Spargo, a premiership forward.

* Tholstrup needs to think about playing football before he starts trying to thrown his weight around.  Mouthing off and pushing and shoving oppo players off the ball doesn't make you a hard man.  Put your head down and your body on the line son and get some credits in the bank. (Young Brown a better prospect at this stage)

* Billings is a better footballer than Chandler.  (I think Laurie is a better footballer than Chandler)

* It's time to trial Judd McVee through the middle.  Rivers has gone well but Judd is a classier player.

* We need to persevere with Turner and Petty. Despite the knockers, they can take a mark and at the very least, make a contest.  Keep JVR at FF.  Don't play him in the ruck FCS.

* Play Jack Viney as a lock down defensive forward to keep the ball in the forward half. 

Essentially, we are a team right out of balance.  My concern is that the coach either doesn't know how or is too stubborn, to right the ship.

 

some good points and some not so good.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Reflecting on yesterday’s loss this morning, and the thing that disappointed me the most, is not the fact that we lost, but all of the key stats we’ve turned around since the bye we were smashed in. 

- We’ve been the 2nd best defensive side since the bye and conceding the second lowest scores and yet we gave up a massive score

- We’ve been the best contested possession team since the bye yet we were smashed in this stat.

- Our scoring had improved yet we kicked 3 goals in the first half and a goalless opening qtr

I’m not sure what it is about Fremantle, but the fact we can get within 5pts of Brisbane (and we probably deserved to win) but put in such a limp performance is just plain disheartening.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

46 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

It was very close to being as bad as the NT game. 

Fifty points was not a true reflection at all. 

Agree. Our best footy is good enough to beat most teams but our worst is embarrassing. It's a close season so we shouldn't be seeing these blow outs. We are all over the shop. Last week Kozzie and Oliver and Nibbler were best on ground but yesterday they seemed ineffectual. 

A few others I mentioned like Salem and Lever didn't show up.

And yes the score line flattered us but last time they beat us we had Max and Tracc in so yesterday wasn't as bad but certainly close.

I don't understand our inconsistency. I don't get why those players mentioned can do so well one week and so poorly the next. Maybe a little hard on Anb 

Is it our recovery process or are we over training at times?

We seemed snail like at times yesterday. You could tell straight away like other games this year we were not in it at all.

And it can't be dismissed because we are a young team. We are not really. In fact it's players like Windsor and Mcvee that have been consistent. It's our more senior players that are inconsistent.

Again we need three more wins.

I hope Lever digs deep and finds some of his old form. 

I wish we could replace Sparrow. I mentioned earlier that I appreciate his tackling efforts but I'm starting to think that it's only because he's second to the contest.

It's very rare that he ever gets votes and when he has he's never consistent.

I think this is his sixth season and he really hasn't shined. He just doesn't get enough of the ball to maintain a position in the midfield but I guess we are lacking in depth so he stays.

The positives are Jvr, Mcvee, Windsor and a couple of other young players that keep building.

A shame some of our leaders and senior players can't also do the same. A few of them seem to be going backwards.

We will see what we are made of next week I guess. Lose that and I think it's lights out for season 24.

So hopefully Salem, Lever, Kozzie, Oliver, Fritta and Anb can be their best and steer us into a finals birth.

Edited July 22 by leave it to deever

[Young Blood 2,575]

Had some good morning chats around the office this morning with Sydney, Geeling and Carlton supporters. All watched the game and all agreed that none of their teams would have beaten Freo the way they played yesterday. They were simply elite in every facet of the game. 

The way they covered the ground was just scary. Haven't seen any team this year execute the high press while covering the corridor like that as well as they did yesterday. The run and spread was just incredible.

I do think we could have done a better job with our positioning in the middle, especially around ruck contests to make it more 50/50 balls to win. Far too often Darcy just palmed down to an uncontested mid who was able to get the ball out to runners far too easily and quickly.

They executed a game plan perfectly with elite skill execution, running and pace. Hats off. Move on

[Docs Demons 1,778]

I'm with Kev in that we are a very young side, and inconsistencies will occur. This is where our mid-range experienced players like fritta, kozzie, sparrow etc. need to perform at a higher level to assist the youngsters and our older guys.

Feel sorry for kolt. He was like a deer in the headlights, but the experience will improve him. We need a few more Windsor's that have the skills and more importantly the pace. Most of our other smaller type players do not have the pace to break lines.

It is not the end of the world. We have another game this week and win it we are still in with a chance. 

One thing I noticed yesterday was the fact an old, old bad habit returned. We had 3/4 players all congregated around the ball against 1/2 Freo's and naturally ball gets out and we have no one on the outside.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

11 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Had some good morning chats around the office this morning with Sydney, Geeling and Carlton supporters. All watched the game and all agreed that none of their teams would have beaten Freo the way they played yesterday. They were simply elite in every facet of the game. 

The way they covered the ground was just scary. Haven't seen any team this year execute the high press while covering the corridor like that as well as they did yesterday. The run and spread was just incredible.

I do think we could have done a better job with our positioning in the middle, especially around ruck contests to make it more 50/50 balls to win. Far too often Darcy just palmed down to an uncontested mid who was able to get the ball out to runners far too easily and quickly.

They executed a game plan perfectly with elite skill execution, running and pace. Hats off. Move on

I think Freo have been a bit of a sleeper this year and have finally started getting it altogether at the business end of the season.

But as good as they were, we were equally as bad. I think they missed a lot of early opportunities and it could have been a 100 points demolition.

I appreciate your positive attitude but I think you overlooking how inconsistent we are this year.

How many games have we seen where you could cal it over from just watching the first ten mins?

Yesterday was another one of those. I don't know why there is such a huge difference between our best and worst.

So yea sure credit to Freo but absolutely none to us. And at this stage of the season and with a finals birth on the line you would like to see that we were a fighting side. 

It was hard for me to take positives from that game. In an apparently close season we were absolutely demolished and it was embarrassing how slow we were. I almost felt like counting the number of Dockers players there were on the field at times because their numbers to the contest were overwhelming.

I guess despite the home advantage over there and Max out, I expected to see more passion and fight.

Goodness help us if we sneak through into the final 8 and have to play them again.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

31 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

I'm with Kev in that we are a very young side, and inconsistencies will occur. This is where our mid-range experienced players like fritta, kozzie, sparrow etc. need to perform at a higher level to assist the youngsters and our older guys.

Feel sorry for kolt. He was like a deer in the headlights, but the experience will improve him. We need a few more Windsor's that have the skills and more importantly the pace. Most of our other smaller type players do not have the pace to break lines.

It is not the end of the world. We have another game this week and win it we are still in with a chance. 

One thing I noticed yesterday was the fact an old, old bad habit returned. We had 3/4 players all cong1regated around the ball against 1/2 Freo's and naturally ball gets out and we have no one on the outside. Is

But it's been players like Jvr, Mcvee and Windsor who are the stand out consistent good players.

For me the issue is with our more veteran players. ..in Oliver, Lever, Petty, Sparrow, Fritta and to a lesser extent Anb.

Agree about the Kolt. He wasn't playing too badly but I was impressed with Billings for once.

The only two youngsters that are up and down are Turner and AMW. The latter has only played a couple of games.

 

Edited July 22 by leave it to deever

[Docs Demons 1,778]

Turner nearly had a good game. Got his hands on the ball in marking contests quite a few times and failed to hold them. It will come for him.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,222]

Perhaps we were loading?

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Last year saw twelve wins get a finals birth.

Since our percentage is so low thanks to Freo twice we will need 13 wins.

We need to win three of the last five games against some tough opponents.

I don't think Hawks will make it because of their percentage.

The dogs have some tough games including us but have two easy ones in tigers and North and they have a strong percentage so are a solid chave of sneaking in.

That means if we play finals I see the Giants and power having to drop out.

The cats have some easy teams to play so are safe.

We also get to play three contenders so the reality is our destiny is in our own hands.

The real challenge to Swans are the Lions who have found form at the right time, Freo and Carlton.

Although the latter are hard to gauge. Carlton have kicked some good scores this year but in three of their games decided by a goal or less they have won all of them. ( We one won of our three).

I don't see Cwood or suns making it due to percentage.

Next week is a must win. Two reasons, it increases our likelihood and pushes  gws out . Although mathematically we are still a chance if we lose it will be highly unlikely.

It's such a close season that that Carlton game umpiring really hurts just like our percentage being demolished by Freo twice.

 

 

 

Edited July 22 by leave it to deever

[Brownie 5,969]

18 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Probably our worst defensive game structurally that I can remember. The number of goals they scored by just being all on their own in f50 is completely bewildering. Lever seemed at fault for probably 10 goals. I'm sure he wasn't as clearly they just walked the ball down the field uncontested which makes his life difficult, but gee whiz...

Simon why would you push the defensive line high with no ruck against a dominant ruck duo? We compressed the field...leading to stoppages....leading to clearance loss ...leading to them running back to goal uncontested when they are pacy and we are not...

Like honestly what the hell was the plan? 

Yep, that's the bit that did my head in most.

Ok. You go in with a plan and strategy but if they're pulling so many cheap goals over the back, by quarter time you have to adjust.

There seemed to be no change in our tactics and setup until it was all too late.

Again!

Thrashed in the same way by the same team in under 2 months.

C'mon FD do your job.

This doesn't let the players off the hook but geez, if you're playing a high press game and you're watching them waltz it out everytime. It must be crushing trying to stick to a method that is obviously not working.

 

[Brownie 5,969]

26 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

Turner nearly had a good game. Got his hands on the ball in marking contests quite a few times and failed to hold them. It will come for him.

He copped a lovely punch to the back of the head at one point directly in front of goal.

Dropped the mark for some strange reason and deemed a fair contest, play on.

JVR was not holding much a few months ago and now he's clunking them.

Disco seems to be at least getting into the right position at the moment.

He's improving for sure.

[darkhorse72 1,903]

I switch off the Alice game, but watched us live yesterday all the way to the end... 

Freo were good.  They were well drilled in moving the ball from contest to the open, and maintain their structure with players staying out to receive the relaxing handball.  They also setup for a fast break from defence.  Once it cleared half back it was one, very quickly as their players run very hard to be an option, hence all the 1 out makes in their forward line.  As others noted by trying to compress the field we could not stop this.

Our movement from defence.  Freo spread and blocked any space very quickly (like we did in 2021 and early 2022), it was impressive to watch.  Hence why we often kicked downtime line to a contest against the giants of Freo (Who also controlled our half forward space).  Hence I think maybe only a couple of times did we manage to get any runs and flow.  

Even with Max Trac and Brayshaw in the side, it would have been a challenging game.  Personally I blame the open taring session they are now doing.  Both games this year in Perth they had an open training session the day before and we got pumped.  Up till this year they didn't have them, that's my unscientific reason for losing at our second home. 

some great signs with the young players, but while we may sneak into the 8, we wont be seriously contending unless we hit some rare form quickly.  

[Radar Detector 1,347]

18 hours ago, BDA said:

Totally unacceptable performance

The youngsters and May get a pass. The rest were awful.

 

Billlings finished with the 6th most possessions (18) for the team plus a goal in less than a half of footy. He gets a pass too.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

16 hours ago, ANG13 said:

He’s definitely not wasted at Fremantle in my opinion. 

LJ will only ever be a cherry on top player. 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

3 minutes ago, darkhorse72 said:

I switch off the Alice game, but watched us live yesterday all the way to the end... 

Freo were good.  They were well drilled in moving the ball from contest to the open, and maintain their structure with players staying out to receive the relaxing handball.  They also setup for a fast break from defence.  Once it cleared half back it was one, very quickly as their players run very hard to be an option, hence all the 1 out makes in their forward line.  As others noted by trying to compress the field we could not stop this.

Our movement from defence.  Freo spread and blocked any space very quickly (like we did in 2021 and early 2022), it was impressive to watch.  Hence why we often kicked downtime line to a contest against the giants of Freo (Who also controlled our half forward space).  Hence I think maybe only a couple of times did we manage to get any runs and flow.  

Even with Max Trac and Brayshaw in the side, it would have been a challenging game.  Personally I blame the open taring session they are now doing.  Both games this year in Perth they had an open training session the day before and we got pumped.  Up till this year they didn't have them, that's my unscientific reason for losing at our second home. 

some great signs with the young players, but while we may sneak into the 8, we wont be seriously contending unless we hit some rare form quickly.  

Good observations. Our structure was definitely not right. Is it the result of our list status, missing Gawn or just poor coaching? This stuff isnt execution - well maybe not entirely. 

[640MD 3,355]

1 hour ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

Yeah the inconsistency is something I struggle with. I don't mind losing, but our best and worst is worlds apart. 

Disappointed   Was hoping we might win  but really was looking to the team "turning up" ready to play, That did not happen,  Team selection  or players  Just do not know.

[ANB Fan Boy 8]

19 hours ago, wizardinoz said:

Then why take him over with the team to WA? We had nothing to lose by playing him.

Not a very popular suggestion I am sure, but is it Gawn, who is stopping us playing another Ruckman? He is not getting any younger and it seems like we have no long-term plan for when/if Gawn retires. Just a point for discussion.

Edited July 22 by ANB Fan Boy

[Young Angus 770]

Very disappointing game to watch, young players are great though they are exciting.  Pretty sad aftertaste though really.

Older players need to lift and lead more.

[dino rover 710]

16 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Hawks would’ve paid overs to get Meek. We can’t afford to pay overs. We have too many big contracts taking up $$$. It’s why we have to go for left field options like Fullerton. From what I’ve seen of the VFL. I’d probably play Verrall next week. Swing Petty back, and bring Jefferson in. 

I think so

the days when you “give the kids a go” might be in the past particularly after Watts got bullied but the again we are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Rucking is aerobically demanding both because you are wrestling a 100kg monster but also because you need to get to contests and more

doing that and then offer repeat leads in the forward line when resting from ruck duties on an interrupted pre season (Petty) is crazy

id like to see Verrall given a chance as a third tall forward and ruck or ruck relief if Max plays

i wouldn’t play Jefferson on form 

[layzie 33,743]

2 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

One thing I noticed yesterday was the fact an old, old bad habit returned. We had 3/4 players all congregated around the ball against 1/2 Freo's and naturally ball gets out and we have no one on the outside.

At least back then we'd win some contested ball and clearances.