3 hours ago, djr said:

Good article by Robbo in the HS.

Mark Robinson: In the professional era, Clayton Oliver needs to accept he’ll be a Demon in 2025

The Dees have walked a tightrope with Clayton Oliver and he can whinge and moan if he wants about a failed trade, but he must be ready to give his best to the Dees in 2025, writes Mark Robinson.

Footy changed for many of us when Alastair Clarkson handballed two club greats – Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis – to other clubs at the end of the Hawks’ dynasty.

The four-time premiership heroes became commodities and they were no longer needed by Hawthorn.

With comforting words from Clarkson, it was basically off you go lads, thanks for everything.

Professionalism has grown year-on-year in this billion-dollar industry, but this was a different kind of professionalism. This was a ruthless business decision from a club looking after its best interests.

The romanticism of being a one-club player, and all those lovey-dovey words such as loyalty, camaraderie, integrity, respect and trust, didn’t mean much in the end.

Clubs do what they have to do – in their best interests.

Which brings us to Clayton Oliver.

I’m bored of the Oliver headlines generated by certain media people – presumably having spoken to Oliver’s management – wanting the football world to feel sorry for the Melbourne midfielder. Oh, Oliver doesn’t want to be there and wants to go to Geelong.

He will take a pay cut. And he’s cleaned out his locker.

All because he’s upset because the club decided to shop him.

Well, boo hoo. I find it difficult to feel sorry for Clayton Oliver. He’s got mental health woes, sure, but find someone in this world who hasn’t. That’s not being dismissive of Oliver’s issues, but it is the reality for everyone, for mental health is a national epidemic.

Oliver’s may be extreme, but at the same time, he has extremely high-level care and assistance available to help him.

For sure, Melbourne has had its challenges dealing with real-world problems in the cocoon world of AFL, but those challenges, in part, have been delivered on a platter by Oliver.

That’s not sheeting home all of Melbourne’s off-field drama to him, but there is a question to be asked: Did the bad culture influence Oliver or did Oliver help bring the bad culture?

The Demons have walked a tightrope with the 27-year-old for some time. Stupidly, they put him on a bumper deal that pays him $1.3 million per year when they were aware of his mental distress. His volcanic off-field behaviour may have come later.

For at least two years now, Melbourne has tried to help him. Medically and psychologically. They have cuddled him and cared for him. They have forgiven him and they encouraged him and they have also eyeballed him.

In turn, Oliver has let himself and the club down, although it must be said the Demons are thrilled with the maturity of Oliver throughout the year. Clearly, there’s people at Melbourne who wanted to trade him. And to think chief executive Gary Pert went lone wolf is laughable.

And there’s people at Melbourne who don’t want to give up on him and they include the club’s stand-in president Brad Green.

The fact is Melbourne shopped him. They let it be known that he was gettable if the price was right. As yet, there are no takers. And there won’t be this trade period.

Is it any surprise that the Demons were open to the idea?

They fluffed it by telling pork pies at the start of trade week, but other than that, they haven’t done too much wrong. Everyone lies – that’s another national epidemic – and they got caught out.

So, it looks like Oliver is staying, which brings us back to professionalism.

Football is a business, players are a commodity and, right now, Oliver is signed to a $1.3m-a-season contract. He can whinge and moan until the cows come home, but the expectation is that he returns for the 2025 season fit and energised to fulfil his contract at the Demons.

To be fair, Melbourne people say that despite the past 10 days of headlines, Oliver understands the situation. And he hopes – and the Demons hope – and footy hopes – that he rediscovers the form that had him rated as a top-10 player in the competition for many years.

Which brings us to Bailey Smith. He also has his mental health issues and also wants to get to Geelong. At 23, he said recently: “There’s a level of when you outgrow a place, or you just need a fresh change for whatever reason. I won’t get too deep into it. I feel like I’d be doing myself a disservice for the player I want to become and the person I want to become by staying in the same environment.”

We’re all for self-discovery, but the Bulldogs, who spent years managing Smith’s complex world, are all for looking after their best interests.

They want a pick better than Geelong’s No. 17, but that doesn’t look like eventuating.

Don’t send him to the draft. Take the pick and run. It’s a business, after all.

The last statement sums this bloke up in a nutshell. "It's a business, after all". No mate, it's a life.

1 minute ago, BLWNBA said:

I thought that despite you having a lot more to do with the club than just being a cheer-squad member, you weren't one to stand on top of the mountain and shout it out for all to hear?

I said that because I knew I wouldn't be believed.  Thank you for proving my point.

Just now, Katrina Dee Fan said:

I said that because I knew I wouldn't be believed.  Thank you for proving my point.

Right. 

I also never said I was a “meer Cheersquad member”. That’s Dazzkedavey36’s line. 

3 hours ago, Kent said:

Great article

What does the club do if Clayton shows up in poor shape at preseason

I really hope he doesnt but there is a degree of lack of trust in his behaviour

He WON'T turn up in poor shape, I think his pride might have been stung. I would expect him to be in the best condition of his life!! If he isn't then ?????????  

On 11/10/2024 at 11:49, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Believe it or not I have a lot more to do with the club than just being a cheersquad member.  But unlike others I'm not one to stand on top of the mountain and shout it out for all to hear.

@Katrina Dee Fan unsure where your reference to "meer" has come from, but assuming it's directed me. Just thought I'd kindly remind you I've simply used your own language from this post here. 

4 minutes ago, picket fence said:

He WON'T turn up in poor shape, I think his pride might have been stung. I would expect him to be in the best condition of his life!! If he isn't then ?????????  

Exactly

So what then

33 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Their names are Caitlin Nobes (Media Dept) and Tamara Jade Quarmby (player sponsors).  Go ahead and ask their opinion.  I'm sure they wouldn't mind.  Given you seem skeptical.

To be fair, they wouldn't have much of an idea of any cultural issues which might be prevalent within the board, senior admin, FD or playing group.

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To be fair, they wouldn't have much of an idea of any cultural issues which might be prevalent within the board, senior admin, FD or playing group.

To be fair, do you have any idea? 

19 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

@Katrina Dee Fan unsure where your reference to "meer" has come from, but assuming it's directed me. Just thought I'd kindly remind you I've simply used your own language from this post here. 

I’m in the cheer squad, but I do other things on a voluntary basis as well. I’ve served in committees, I was involved for example with the working parties on the constitutional reforms a couple of years back, and through that got to know David Rennick. Any member can get involved in doing these things, it’s a matter of getting involved. But yes, it has afforded me the opportunity to work with and get to know people in the club. Not sure what is so hard about that to fathom. 

According to Wikipedia India averages the most derailments in the world. 

Demonland must be closing in.

29 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

He didn't. He managed to include that, even though it is more than two years old ( in which time we had two top four finishes).

Correct, but isn't it also possible to have culture issues while having success? There wouldn't be many who thought the 2006 West Coast side didn't have issues.

Cultural issues can be in the eye of the beholder as it's more 'the way we do things round here' than a set guide handed out to every club. Unfortunately there have been a lot of these events now, plenty of media beat ups but a lot of factual incidents too and on balance people are probably right to be questioning our culture.

No culture is perfect though either, Simon Goodwin has said that it is an ongoing process. However I do think at some point we need to realise that not everything written about us is a scripted conspiracy. We need to improve. 

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

It isn't just mfc players that may be implicated.

True. There’s also ex Dees that moved on to other clubs after the story dropped. Allegedly. 

20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To be fair, they wouldn't have much of an idea of any cultural issues which might be prevalent within the board, senior admin, FD or playing group.

Despite the fact they both work quite closely with both AFL and AFLW teams. 

I just hope everyone arrives with their shoes this year if we have a preseason camp!

46 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm saying the culture is not as great as the club wants to think it is. To be honest I don't really care about those other clubs but yes, the culture of Collingwood in 2017 was a disaster too. Who was CEO there at the time?

Keep your head in the sand Katrina, the club loves supporters like you who forgive every indiscretion of the club and every poor administrator we've had, supporters who clap the team off when 10 goals down at half time. I want to see a successful MFC, that doesn't happen when you sweep massive issues under the rug and don't hold those in charge to account.

Yep, sure, and the club LOOOVES "supporters" like you who slag off at everything and, as I said before, rely on rumours, defamatory statements without support...

 

Why do I bother going on? I'm getting really sick of this site and its unbelievably unsupportive "supporters".

1 hour ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Their names are Caitlin Nobes (Media Dept) and Tamara Jade Quarmby (player sponsors).  Go ahead and ask their opinion.  I'm sure they wouldn't mind.  Given you seem skeptical.

If nothing else, at least you're being transparent and citing endorsements of the working culture at MFC HQ. It may not show fully the culture of our playing group and football department but it does count for something and can be taken into account.

There's a lot of opinions flying around at the moment but I think we need to keep this as a civil discussion. 

I have been posting on this site for 20+ years, and this place has never been more toxic.

Embarrassing to see this level of drivel, chest beating and pointless point scoring.

The culture at our club may not be great, but it's probably better than the culture that's creeped into this place from the same usual suspects, who think they have the right to belittle others and repeat the same rubbish over and over and over again.

The moderators do their best, but I think everyone here is an adult (or should be) and therefore should take responsibility for their own behaviours. Hiding behind a screen, does not give you the right to be a gigantic asshat. 

I have nothing to hide, you all know what my first name is, anyway.  If anyone is interested, my surname is Oxley.  There you go. I'm transparent.

Clarry is staying 

59 minutes ago, djr said:

To be fair, do you have any idea? 

I have no inside knowledge or contacts but I am able to see the fallout from those cultural issues which play out publicly and are reported on. Someone trying to play down those issues which are publicly known based on people within the club saying "nothing to see here" is fanciful.

58 minutes ago, layzie said:

Correct, but isn't it also possible to have culture issues while having success? There wouldn't be many who thought the 2006 West Coast side didn't have issues.

Cultural issues can be in the eye of the beholder as it's more 'the way we do things round here' than a set guide handed out to every club. Unfortunately there have been a lot of these events now, plenty of media beat ups but a lot of factual incidents too and on balance people are probably right to be questioning our culture.

No culture is perfect though either, Simon Goodwin has said that it is an ongoing process. However I do think at some point we need to realise that not everything written about us is a scripted conspiracy. We need to improve. 

We'll said layzie, you're often the voice of reason (and levity) around here mate, love your work 👍

57 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Yep, sure, and the club LOOOVES "supporters" like you who slag off at everything and, as I said before, rely on rumours, defamatory statements without support...

 

Why do I bother going on? I'm getting really sick of this site and its unbelievably unsupportive "supporters".

I don't slag off at everything, I've applauded the club over recent years and backed Goodwin to the hilt during 2020 when many wanted him gone. I did waver briefly in that 2020 offseason but took a "wait and see" attitude to 2021 which worked out well. I've often had "discussions" on here with others (won't name them) who were ready to blow the place up because success didn't come along quick enough based on how the process was playing out and could see we were on the right track despite those results not coming quick enough. I've also said many times on here that this administration/coaches have the runs on the board and deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt. Well to me, those doubts are now becoming reality and the ongoing leaks and issues out of the club mean those in charge need to be held to account. Things can keep on keeping on as they are but success won't happen if that's the way we want to let things play out. When the "cultural issues" (can't say more due to DL policy) are so prevalent, when the performance dips, when key players want out of the club, when the club is consistently leaking to the media - questions need to be asked about the current administration and leadership.

It's laughable to say I'm the kind of supporter who is negative for negatives sake, I've been posting here for probably close to 15 years (🤯) I was very negative during the Neeld/Schwab years, was far more positive during the Roos/Jackson/Goodwin years and even up until late last year. What has happened over the last 18 months (not just onfield results) is alarming for those who want and expect the club to have good solid governance and leadership that will lay a foundation for sustained success.

Edited October 16, 2024Oct 16 by Dr. Gonzo

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We'll said layzie, you're often the voice of reason (and levity) around here mate, love your work 👍

Haha appreciate that, admittedly also the voice of insanity sometimes.

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

It isn't just mfc players that may be implicated.

I was just about to write just that. Apparently there are players from up to three other clubs, the majority NOT being MFC players.