PREGAME: Rd 19 vs Fremantle

[binman 42,896]

46 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

based on today's vfl game, the only change i'd be considering if gawn doesn't come up is ben brown in for harry petty

if woey 2.0 is injured then it'll probably be howes as next man up

Watching the case game, I thought don't sleep on Benny Brown.

Looked in good nick and did some nice thing's. 

[Adam The God 30,220]

3 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I would stay with JVR and Petty as well.  I am praying it’s wet next Sunday and we have no change. Freo will have a huge hit out to advantage benefit and it will be easier for us to nullify if it’s wet and slippery.  Last time they beat Max in hitouts to advantage (+6), smashed us in clearance (+25), resulting in +14% in time in forward half and +42 points in score from stoppage. 

But more important on who rucks is whether Goody sticks with the stoppage structures from last night regardless of the weather.  We went in with a plan to bring extras to the stoppages to nullify Drapers advantage, something Goody has been reluctant to do even when it’s wet.  The benefits were pretty obvious (winning more clearances and a more open forward line).  We actually have a very quick forward line that is dangerous when it’s not crowded, but completely ineffective when there is no space.

I think our stoppage set up last night was purely for Essendon. They like to chain out of the stoppage with hand balls. By setting up on the defensive side of the stoppage, we constantly nullified their quick exits and chaining.

I must admit, I'm not convinced we brought up an extra to the stoppage, I'm pretty sure we played even numbers. (happy to be corrected on that front)

Edited July 14 by Binmans PA

[ManDee 7,134]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Ahh but has it snowed ?? 🤔🤣🤣

Not in Mansfield, not sure about the hill.

[old55 23,546]

I don't think it's certain Darcy plays. It might actually be to our advantage if he does. Jackson alone would dominate the ruck anyway and they could play another runner.

[binman 42,896]

21 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I think our stoppage set up last night was purely for Essendon. They like to chain out of the stoppage with hand balls. By setting up on the defensive side of the stoppage, we constantly nullified their quick exits and chaining.

I must admit, I'm not convinced we brought up an extra to the stoppage, I'm pretty sure we played even numbers. (happy to be corrected on that front)

Jones said we were doing so on the coverage.

Maybe he meant an extra in the sense we are normally one down?

That's to say even numbers. 

He also said the high half forwards were pushing up to to stoppages too. 

It drives me nuts they don't show graphics with the set ups and all ground structure.

The coverage of afl feels as if it hasn't improved or changed in 20 years.

That used to he true of cricket, but coverage of cricket is brilliant now with fantastic use of special comments  graphics and video. It's adds so much to my understanding of a game I love and know well.

[Watson11 2,240]

47 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I think our stoppage set up last night was purely for Essendon. They like to chain out of the stoppage with hand balls. By setting up on the defensive side of the stoppage, we constantly nullified their quick exits and chaining.

I must admit, I'm not convinced we brought up an extra to the stoppage, I'm pretty sure we played even numbers. (happy to be corrected on that front)

It was probably even numbers at them but that’s down to the bombers following our half forwards in to keep it even.  Throlstrup and Chandler were at a lot of stoppages (stoppage below was the first I found in 2 minutes trying to freeze frame on a wing stoppage). It meant the stoppages were a contested slog and we had more space in our forward line.  Jones and Luke Hodge both commented on it.

I hope it was not a once off.  It would be a mistake to give Freo an extra at stoppages or an open stoppage setup next week. 

 

 

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,237]

4 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree with this but query the last paragraph.

The fact that it worked this week vs Draper doesn't mean it's going to work next week vs Darcy/Jackson.

The threat they pose at stoppage with their clearance work, and around the ground (both are much better than Draper), means the task next week is a step up at least. Plus it rained last night, which I'm going to assume won't be the case next week.

Plus JVR's just played a game in the ruck and has to get on a plane to Perth. 

There are plenty of reasons why, despite it working this week, we may need to reconsider it for next week.

As L.P.  Hartley wrote (first sentence of The Go Between) -

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."

 

[Adam The God 30,220]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Jones said we were doing so on the coverage.

Maybe he meant an extra in the sense we are normally one down?

That's to say even numbers. 

He also said the high half forwards were pushing up to to stoppages too. 

It drives me nuts they don't show graphics with the set ups and all ground structure.

The coverage of afl feels as if it hasn't improved or changed in 20 years.

That used to he true of cricket, but coverage of cricket is brilliant now with fantastic use of special comments  graphics and video. It's adds so much to my understanding of a game I love and know well.

Yeah, I heard that on the replay too, but at the game, it looked even to me.

Edited July 14 by Binmans PA

[Adam The God 30,220]

We were super aggressive pushing up last night too and in the first quarter our defence looked really exposed a few times.

It looked very 2018ish last night at times.

Not in a bad way, because our personnel is vastly better than 2018.

[DubDee 25,835]

Surely Laurie has to be considered. Only based on stats but looks like he has a cracker. I’d give Woey a full game at Casey and bring Laurie in

[Adam The God 30,220]

7 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Surely Laurie has to be considered. Only based on stats but looks like he has a cracker. I’d give Woey a full game at Casey and bring Laurie in

Who for?

Before you say Sparrow, Tom plays a brutal defensive mid role. Can Laurie play that? I don't think so.

So who else?

Edited July 14 by Binmans PA

[binman 42,896]

10 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Yeah, I heard that on the replay too, but at the game, it looked even to me.

Really, playing one down at stoppages has only been made possible by having generational players in maxy, tracc, clarry and jack.

And as you've noted the clever tactic of having a high half forward, usually nibbla sitting of the contest.

I reckon Jones, who played in that system, meant even numbers not an extra. 

Again, what drives me nuts is their lack of explanation about the impacts of that decision.

For one thing, we use the spare created by playing one down at stoppages behind the ball in an intercepting role.

Which would help explain why we didn't do that well in terms intercept and intercept marks differentials, basically breaking even whereas in past seasons we routinely smashed teams for intercepts, particularly intercept marks.

[Pennant St Dee 13,171]

6 hours ago, binman said:

Picket, to be honest you are coming off as not having a great grasp on what might drive selection in modern footy.

I think it is reasonable to assume goody selection is largely driven by picking a team he thinks gives us the best possible chance of winning that game (I say largely because a factor sometimes might be an eye to getting a player ready for finals - so, an eye to winning future games).

If goody is picking petts at this point in the season, in a critical 8 point game, it is reasonable to assume he did so because he believed it would help us win. 

Petty is clearly playing a role, and doing what is asked of him.

He is a work horse who gets to contests and provides a down the line marking option.

In case you haven't noticed goody has ALWAYS had a player playing such a role in his teams. BBB and Tmac are two such examples.

It is a critical part of his structure and method - not least because it gives maxy a chop out from being smashed in such aeriel pack contests all game.

And have a listen to goody's answer to another inane question about our forward line.

Asked about the forward line mix working in the last 2-3 weeks, implying something radical had changed, he, politely, pointed out that the only change to that mix has been melk and that petts, jvr and disco have played together for most of the season.

Cohesion is critical in sport he pointed out. And that takes time he also pointed out. It takes continuity.

That's exactly what they have been doing - continuity in selection and building cohesion.

And we are seeing the fruits of that approach.

Dropping petty does not contribute to continuity or cohesion.

And brining in another kid like Jefferson does nothing to help us win, or for cohesion - or the kid's development for that matter.

And seriously, do you really think Fullarton would have helped us win last night? Bloke is barely passing muster as a ruck at VFL level

Despite the frankly ridiculous hand wringing on here about selection, we won the raw clearance count - which by the by is not a particularly useful stat these days as it's not a measure of impact.

What is a measure of impact is scores from stoppages, which critically we won by 14 points.

In fact it was arguably the deciding factor in our win given they scored 3 more points from turnover.

That doesn't happen without petty.

Goody deserves credit and praise not brickbats.

Which is why, when responding to a question about who we might play in the ruck against freo goody visibly bristled, before noting the option he ran with this week clearly JUST WORKED, implying the obvious- why would we change something that literally just proved successful?

Not having a grasp on selection, he doesn’t have a grasp on modern footy

[DubDee 25,835]

17 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Who for?

Before you say Sparrow, Tom plays a brutal defensive mid role. Can Laurie play that? I don't think so.

So who else?

I suggested Woey 

[binman 42,896]

13 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Not having a grasp on selection, he doesn’t have a grasp on modern footy

I edited my original post.

My first draft was little less diplomatic.

Edited July 14 by binman

[Nascent 9,212]

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

Who for?

Before you say Sparrow, Tom plays a brutal defensive mid role. Can Laurie play that? I don't think so.

So who else?

Woey got injured at Casey so there might be an opportunity there as sub. Realistically he's in competition with Tholstrup for that half-fwd position but unlikely to see him dropped on current form.

Edited July 14 by Nascent

[Deemania since 56 6,634]

8 hours ago, DubDee said:

Hitouts we lost 43 to 27

Clearances we WON 44 to 32

Do people really think tap work matters that much?

Darcy and LJ could kill us around the ground and that’s what we should focus on. Can Fullarton or Verral help with that?

 

Great questions. Interesting (not impossible) suggestions.

[Jaded No More 68,901]

Anyone know what the injury to Woey is? 

[Adam The God 30,220]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Really, playing one down at stoppages has only been made possible by having generational players in maxy, tracc, clarry and jack.

And as you've noted the clever tactic of having a high half forward, usually nibbla sitting of the contest.

I reckon Jones, who played in that system, meant even numbers not an extra. 

Again, what drives me nuts is their lack of explanation about the impacts of that decision.

For one thing, we use the spare created by playing one down at stoppages behind the ball in an intercepting role.

Which would help explain why we didn't do that well in terms intercept and intercept marks differentials, basically breaking even whereas in past seasons we routinely smashed teams for intercepts, particularly intercept marks.

It means we're more likely to win in inclement conditions, because we don't rely on May and Lever taking intercept marks in quite the same way that we used to. Of course, they are still important parts of our defence, but we're less vulnerable in wet conditions because we've learnt to score in different ways - ie ideally, we're turning the ball over in our forward half or between the arcs.

[Dingo 1,059]

7 hours ago, ManDee said:

Never believe weather forecasters! "Should stop raining in Mansfield sometime this afternoon". 

Hasn't rained all day!

 

Edit. They got cold right.

Weather forecasters get it right 99% of the time in Melbourne 

[Superunknown 4,217]

Just read was it the roar or ro co re the dees run home specifically v freo “they always lose to freo”

jeez I’d love to stick it right up them at fortress optus 

[whatwhat say what 22,740]

2 minutes ago, Dingo said:

Weather forecasters get it right 99% of the time in Melbourne 

it's easy when the forecast is 'it'll rain for a bit, then be sunny for a bit, then rain for a bit, before it clears up...oh, and it'll be windy'

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,237]

4 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

It means we're more likely to win in inclement conditions, because we don't rely on May and Lever taking intercept marks in quite the same way that we used to. Of course, they are still important parts of our defence, but we're less vulnerable in wet conditions because we've learnt to score in different ways - ie ideally, we're turning the ball over in our forward half or between the arcs.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14 by Winners at last

[Dingo 1,059]

9 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

it's easy when the forecast is 'it'll rain for a bit, then be sunny for a bit, then rain for a bit, before it clears up...oh, and it'll be windy'

Look at the BOM website!
They breakdown the day / night into parts and tell you what will happen.

And it does!

[croydick 142]

Depending on weather, I'd swap Fullarton for Petty (assuming Max not fit), maybe if there conditions are completely perfect we try Verrall but probably not. I dont think we can risk the no ruck play against a dual ruck team with two strong rucks, think we need at least a real ruck to play on Darcy.