7 minutes ago, von said:

I don’t believe it is. Culture is seperate to wins and losses. Culture isn’t necessarily effected by wins and losses but it may make it easier to win when the stars align. Culture allows individuals to fulfill their potential but it doesn’t guarantee success. Success in sports is highly unlikely. Very hard to do. 
 

The media also use the word without reference to what they mean. It can very quickly become a nothing word. They also swap it out with performance because it sounds more dramatic.

we’ve been given a very high standard on and off since 2018. The expectation of dynasty as a standard is over the top. The luck you need to have one goes far beyond culture.

 

Id agree in that culture and results can well be two different things.

That essences ebb and flow between.the two might be inevitable however.

Mick’s voice and opinions regarding MFC is one that I no longer respect, trust or listen to. I prefer to remain blissfully unaware of what our naysayers including Gerard Whateley have to say regarding all things Melbourne.

Anyone else wanna stick the boots in in the media? Surprised we haven't had damo Barrett - IF dees are bad at footy THEN they don't win games

5 minutes ago, von said:

I don’t believe it is. Culture is seperate to wins and losses. Culture isn’t necessarily effected by wins and losses but it may make it easier to win when the stars align. Culture allows individuals to fulfill their potential but it doesn’t guarantee success. Success in sports is highly unlikely. Very hard to do. 
 

The media also use the word without reference to what they mean. It can very quickly become a nothing word. They also swap it out with performance because it sounds more dramatic.

we’ve been given a very high standard on and off since 2018. The expectation of dynasty as a standard is over the top. The luck you need to have one goes far beyond culture.

 

Culture in Sport, is all about Winning and sustaining Success. It’s not the same as a Nations Culture, which evolves over Centuries. 
If a Club has a history of Losing, then it will never attract the best players unless they are paid “overs”

Sponsorships and Membership are always lower. 
The Demons since 1964 have massively underachieved for myriad of Reasons, and then in ‘21 they break the mould, Culture from there, is whether we can stay around the mark, like many teams do. At the moment it is looking very shaky 

11 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Id agree in that culture and results can well be two different things.

That essences ebb and flow between.the two might be inevitable however.

Our culture was trash for a very long time. I think we are doing a lot better these days. It doesn’t mean problems don’t arise at club and individual level.

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Culture in Sport, is all about Winning and sustaining Success. It’s not the same as a Nations Culture, which evolves over Centuries. 
If a Club has a history of Losing, then it will never attract the best players unless they are paid “overs”

Sponsorships and Membership are always lower. 
The Demons since 1964 have massively underachieved for myriad of Reasons, and then in ‘21 they break the mould, Culture from there, is whether we can stay around the mark, like many teams do. At the moment it is looking very shaky 

Our culture is being challenged perhaps. It’s streets ahead of where it was a decade ago though. Geelong supposedly have great culture. They have had a lot of seasons without a flag. It may be too soon to judge. Our culture to me is still in a good place. It’s how we react to issues that will define it. We have stayed top four after 21. Whether or not we win the flag from there is in large part luck.

3 minutes ago, von said:

Our culture is being challenged perhaps. It’s streets ahead of where it was a decade ago though. Geelong supposedly have great culture. They have had a lot of seasons without a flag. It may be too soon to judge. Our culture to me is still in a good place. It’s how we react to issues that will define it. We have stayed top four after 21. Whether or not we win the flag from there is in large part luck.

Agreed.
We have to keep challenging, that is the aim. That probably defines Culture in Sports the best way. 
Right now The MFC is at that Crossroad. This Year worries me, because of the way we are losing games, the Fight has dissipated and we haven’t managed to Trade in anything like the talent, that has left 

 

Dreadful man.

1 hour ago, biggestred said:

Anyone else wanna stick the boots in in the media? Surprised we haven't had damo Barrett - IF dees are bad at footy THEN they don't win games

he had a crack last week on afl's pravda.com.au last week

Mick Malthouse finds glory in war and nationalism. His idea of good culture is straight outta the 1950s. Therefore, he can stick it.  

He's not wrong about Max having to carry the can every time something bad happens on or off the field. Which is ironic given he's the club's highest achiever week in week out. 

Mick Malthouse is the ghost of football past. 

Edited June 17, 20241 yr by Rab D Nesbitt

8 hours ago, von said:

I don’t believe it is. Culture is seperate to wins and losses. Culture isn’t necessarily effected by wins and losses but it may make it easier to win when the stars align. Culture allows individuals to fulfill their potential but it doesn’t guarantee success. Success in sports is highly unlikely. Very hard to do. 
 

The media also use the word without reference to what they mean. It can very quickly become a nothing word. They also swap it out with performance because it sounds more dramatic.

we’ve been given a very high standard on and off since 2018. The expectation of dynasty as a standard is over the top. The luck you need to have one goes far beyond culture.

 

A good culture means consistent high performance. Consistent high performance in the AFL means competing for flags. Competing for flags means making/being competitive in Preliminary finals at the minimum.

Not winning flags the last couple of years doesn't make us a failure. Not making Prelims does and that should be the expectation of our supporters.

Edited June 17, 20241 yr by Dr. Gonzo

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

A good culture means consistent high performance. Consistent high performance in the AFL means competing for flags. Competing for flags means making/being competitive in Preliminary finals at the minimum.

Not winning flags the last couple of years doesn't make us a failure. Not making Prelims does and that should be the expectation of our supporters.

Yep. Straight Sets exits from the Finals is not acceptable, regardless of circumstances, if we are to emerge as a “Successful and Stable” Club 

We have to ingrain that into the Club psyche. 
 

Hawthorn have done it from 1971 onwards. They are never down for long…

9 hours ago, von said:

Our culture is being challenged perhaps. It’s streets ahead of where it was a decade ago though. Geelong supposedly have great culture. They have had a lot of seasons without a flag. It may be too soon to judge. Our culture to me is still in a good place. It’s how we react to issues that will define it. We have stayed top four after 21. Whether or not we win the flag from there is in large part luck.

Geelong may not have won many flags since 2011 but they've consistently competed for them. Prelims in 2013, 2016, 2017, 2019 & 2021 and runners-up in 2020.

In my mind that is consistent high performance.

We have not stayed top 4 after 2021. We finished top 4 after the home and away season but that is only the qualifying period for Finals. Top 4 means making Prelims and we did not do that in 2022 or 2023, hence our respective draft positions.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

A good culture means consistent high performance. Consistent high performance in the AFL means competing for flags. Competing for flags means making/being competitive in Preliminary finals at the minimum.

Not winning flags the last couple of years doesn't make us a failure. Not making Prelims does and that should be the expectation of our supporters.

Is culture more powerful than luck with injuries? Does a season outside the 8 mean culture is shot? The way the system is created means it’s very hard to defy gravity for too long. Do down years and rebuilds always point to poor culture? Hawthorn were very successful but it turns out may have not had the best culture. I think people are defining different things as culture. Our culture looked shot in 2019 but it was for the greater good in the end and our culture came through and won us a flag. 

9 minutes ago, von said:

Is culture more powerful than luck with injuries? Does a season outside the 8 mean culture is shot? The way the system is created means it’s very hard to defy gravity for too long. Do down years and rebuilds always point to poor culture? Hawthorn were very successful but it turns out may have not had the best culture. I think people are defining different things as culture. Our culture looked shot in 2019 but it was for the greater good in the end and our culture came through and won us a flag. 

A Good Culture is sustained Success and high Standards over a period of time. 

54 minutes ago, von said:

Is culture more powerful than luck with injuries? Does a season outside the 8 mean culture is shot? The way the system is created means it’s very hard to defy gravity for too long. Do down years and rebuilds always point to poor culture? Hawthorn were very successful but it turns out may have not had the best culture. I think people are defining different things as culture. Our culture looked shot in 2019 but it was for the greater good in the end and our culture came through and won us a flag. 

A season outside the 8 does not define culture, but the season itself does, the way we have played this year is like the seasons of old when we have fallen the year after being in contention. 
The job isn’t ever done, it’s a work in progress and we have to apply ourselves year in year out, not just the occasional good season here and there. We look like becoming another Footscray, good but not good enough, a 4th to 10th side.

Related to the article and not the author:

At one of the games earlier this year before the bad losses, I was so frustrated at what I was seeing I resorted to shouting out from the stand "Max can't do it all on his own".

That's how it felt for a lot of the game. He'd pop up in Defence and then moments later he was marking up the field.  That level of effort was nowhere near uniform and in contrast to the rest of the team Max's powerful performance looked like Demonic possession .  It was really frustrating for us fans to watch him battling so bravely and it wasn't the only game he'd have felt like that. 

I'm not sure if being a Demon fan is a toxic relationship, but it is really frustrating.  We're all seeking perfection in our football club, so that's only destined to drive us mad.

This preseason and Season so far with Gus, Smith, Clarry, injuries, losses, confused game plan and players have been far from perfect. It's really important in the short term that we arrest that slide in performance before it becomes really damaging.  

There are longer term frustrations too that are probably more corrosive to culture.  I think the biggest of these is the enduring failure to secure a proper home base within a reasonable distance from the MCG.

I say this as someone who loves the club and wishes for the best.  If I was a player choosing between clubs I wouldn't be attracted by the prospect of commuting daily to a far flung outer suburb like Casey with occasional days at AAMI and a lovely oval with no facilities beside a busy highway at Gosch's. 

I think getting the home base sorted is key to the club's long term identity and pride.  

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

A Good Culture is sustained Success and high Standards over a period of time. 

That seems simplistic to me. You can maintain high standards across all areas and it may not lead to on field success. What if you just don’t have the players you need? Your list and the injuries you get along the way are in large part due to luck.  It almost feels like you are setting yourself disappointed with unrealistic standards.

 

14 hours ago, Dante said:

A season outside the 8 does not define culture, but the season itself does, the way we have played this year is like the seasons of old when we have fallen the year after being in contention. 
The job isn’t ever done, it’s a work in progress and we have to apply ourselves year in year out, not just the occasional good season here and there. We look like becoming another Footscray, good but not good enough, a 4th to 10th side.

So 2019 was a no good waste of time but the year we had to have to learn how to defend? It’s hard to assess from the outside. We don’t know how this season is being viewed internally. In elite sport it takes two tenths of not much to fall away badly. Doesn’t mean the sky is falling or that the future may not be bright.

This is from the M Malthouse who has been working at the MFC for so many years?  Oh wait.  Might as well ask my dishwasher for an opinion.  It doesn't work either.

7 minutes ago, von said:

That seems simplistic to me. You can maintain high standards across all areas and it may not lead to on field success. What if you just don’t have the players you need? Your list and the injuries you get along the way are in large part due to luck.  It almost feels like you are setting yourself disappointed with unrealistic standards.

 

 

No. That just means your standards and recruitment has a lot of improvement to go. It’s a Tough Industry 

To be successful you have to demand the best

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. That just means your standards and recruitment has a lot of improvement to go. It’s a Tough Industry 

To be successful you have to demand the best

It is a tough industry and comparing yourself to Geelong might be a waste of time. Not every basketballer is Michael Jordan. Not every footballer is Gary Ablett. Doesn’t mean they aren’t professional and working to high standards. But you are starting to differentiate between culture and high performance. You can have great culture while working on your high performance and your recruiting. Recruiting is largely luck too. Who’s available and when might not always suit your needs and stamping your feet saying we didn’t get what we need doesn’t help or change the fact that it’s a lot of luck. 

Edited June 18, 20241 yr by von

14 minutes ago, von said:

It is a tough industry and comparing yourself to Geelong might be a waste of time. Not every basketballer is Michael Jordan. Not every footballer is Gary Ablett. Doesn’t mean they aren’t professional and working to high standards. But you are starting to differentiate between culture and high performance. You can have great culture while working on your high performance and your recruiting. Recruiting is largely luck too. Who’s available and when might not always suit your needs and stamping your feet saying we didn’t get what we need doesn’t help or change the fact that it’s a lot of luck. 

I don’t dispute anything you say. But as far as the Media are concerned, and that is where “Culture” is discussed mostly

It’s all about Winning at the Pointy end of the Season. 
If Culture meant anything else then Meth Coke would have been dissolved in 2007

27 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t dispute anything you say. But as far as the Media are concerned, and that is where “Culture” is discussed mostly

It’s all about Winning at the Pointy end of the Season. 
If Culture meant anything else then Meth Coke would have been dissolved in 2007

Listening to the media is not in anyone’s interest. They are reactive, short sighted and over the top. They also aren’t that bright and misuse words and phrases regularly.