POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[binman 42,988]

19 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

4 ruck contests yesterday, one centre bounce, compared to his last game where he had 14 ruck contests and 6 centre bounces

Yep.

Yesterday:

Ruck Contests

	Ruck Contests	RC %	2024 %	2023 %
Max Gawn	78	91%	82.9%	57.5%
Jacob van Rooyen	4	5%	13.4%	13.1%
Harrison Petty	4	5%	5.3%	2.0%

Edited June 11 by binman

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

I agree with this, and your entire post, except that I wouldn’t say it was hitting the panic button. 

The majority view on here after last year’s finals was that we needed to change the way we play because the repeat inside 50 forward half press wasn’t going to get us a flag. 

I don’t think the FD panicked. I think they correctly identified that some changes would make us better. Unfortunately, it just hasn’t worked and, as you say, we’ve stripped our players of their identity in the process. 

Exactly, we tried tweaks in both 2022 and 2023. Tweaks were not enough. Our players couldn't be cajoled in to simply playing a more flowing attacking style from behind the ball. It was time for a fairly substantial shake up.

And when you shake something up it usually gets worse before it gets better.

This game plan - like any game plan - requires it to be drilled and practiced and it requires the right kind of players. Which is guys who can run with and without the ball and guys who can make decisions.

Clayton Oliver who has done a full preseason in this system would be very useful. Clayton Oliver with no preseason not so useful.

Gus Brayshaw would've been very well suited as an inside mid who could accumulate the ball and make good decisions when handballing at least.

Petracca playing forward more and getting used across half forward by guys streaming through the middle would thrive in that role. We've seen glimpses of it on the days we haven't butchered it across half back on through the middle.

The change is right, we aren't beating teams like Sydney and Collingwood going slow and long bomb footy. And not only that but we aren't developing players as any more than role players in that kind of footy.

[binman 42,988]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Yep.

Yesterday:

Ruck Contests

	Ruck Contests	RC %	2024 %	2023 %
Max Gawn	78	91%	82.9%	57.5%
Jacob van Rooyen	4	5%	13.4%	13.1%
Harrison Petty	4	5%	5.3%	2.0%

And his previous game (against the saints):

Ruck Contests

	Ruck Contests	RC %	2024 %	2023 %
Max Gawn	63	81%	82.0%	57.5%
Jacob van Rooyen	14	18%	14.2%	13.1%
Harrison Petty	1	1%	4.3%	2.0%

Edited June 11 by binman

[beelzebub 23,377]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

Not sure if it’s been covered already but May clearly looks hampered by his rib injury still, saw him grimace twice with contact yesterday, he was also battling a groin issue at the start of the year which I’m sure would still be lingering 

He's trying valiantly imo..  He's feeling the pressure..  I sense he's extremely frustrated and feeling that he's letting the side and himself down. 

He's not...but i get it.

 

[BDA 22,755]

54 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Gus Brayshaw would've been very well suited as an inside mid who could accumulate the ball and make good decisions when handballing at least

Praise for Gus !

Who are you and what have you done with the real DeeSpencer.

[jnrmac 20,090]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Great analysis

In a nutshell ...  many teams better at getting the benefit of Max's efforts.....than we are.  Take a bow Melbourne 

Gee that's damning. We're clueless

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Umm he played his usual share in the ruck and was very effective. 

Goody let him be our deepest forward at times which looked good and he brought Fritsch up the ground.

Fritta is dangerous deep but is also an excellent field kick and at times did a few good things in the portion of the match I watched. I think he needs to be reminded of team footy a bit and play at half forward at times to help solve of our f50 connection issues. I get he has no defensive accountability but the VFL may change his perspective. 

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

13 minutes ago, BDA said:

Praise for Gus !

Who are you and what have you done with the real DeeSpencer.

We’ve been so bad we’ve missed him. Couldn’t kick or run in more than second gear but he could tackle, accumulate and handball.

[Deesprate 1,324]

On 10/06/2024 at 19:52, praha said:

I've only been to three games this year. I can't shake how I felt after the Carlton final after witnessing 4 straight finals losses at the MCG after watching a flag under house arrest.

I don't care what anyone says, the emotional roller-coaster we've been through has been amazing but also just demoralising. It's been bloody exhausting.

Clubs like Melbourne, Footscray... we're just not built the right way. 

I'll be back eventually but the bitterness I feel after 2021 is just unhinged. I know i shouldn't feel this way but I do 

Totally agree with those comments about being bitter. It hard to be rationale when your denied one live premiership in a lifetime after attending for years without success. It leave you conflicted whilst great to win won you feel ripped off. Made worse as when we can watch four MCG finals losses in a row including the Gus tragedy.. So here we are confronting an abyss of mediocrity and you wonder why you feel unhinged. It natural to be bitter at the sporting tragedy that bring us to this point. Just seeing Oliver and May laughing with Maynard encapsulated that feeling of bitterness. Sure there will be naysayers on here who say get over it but when you invest emotionally in a club it is easier said than done. All the best with your MFCSS

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,248]

I haven't watched any of the match ... and won't watch the replay. 

However, judging from the previous matches ...

1. Our previous success was built on the performances of the A graders ... Trac, Oliver, Viney, Lever, May, Brayshaw. We had a dream run in 2021 with injuries. None of the A graders are playing well, other than Trac. Oliver is a shadow of his former self. Same with Viney. (Is he injured?) And May. 
2. The second/third tier players looked good on the back of the A graders starring, eg. Bowey, Langdon, McVee, Fritsch, Petty. 
3. We have been selecting players who just aren't up to standard, eg  Laurie, Billings, McAdam.
4. I still hold hopes for Petty, but he should play in the backline until he can find some form.
5. Our depth is poor. If any of the current team are dropped, who would come in? BBB is cooked. Schache seems like a lost cause, Fullarton obviously not rated at all. Some of the youngies should get a go, although not all at once!
6. The overall skill level is poor. Turnovers kill us. I get very frustrated by this .... they are highly paid/full time professionals. Kicking/handballing/decision making is their job. If any of us did our jobs that badly there would be adverse consequences. 
7. Yes, the goal kicking is bad, but many of the shots were from difficult angles.
8. Disruptions such as Joel Smith/Oliver/Gus' retirement were damaging.

 FWIW, I think we'll beat Norf.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

5 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

They certainly play the game hard. Even if they bend the rules.

And even when they play within the rules they take no prisoners.

Maynard tackled very hard yesterday with six of them being very strong.

Even Moore the captain plays on the edge. I didn't think going into that pack with his knee going in first was necessary but it was totally legal 

Often times that will leave most players sore or ruing the fact they put their body on the line.

I can't say if it was intentional but the result left one of our best players hospitalized.

Their tackle count was much higher than ours and we seldom broke them like they did with ours.

I can't imagine Daicos having his career completely ended by a demons player and then pies players not responding to him in the next encounter. Rightly or wrongly they would target him at every turn. They certainly wouldn't shake his hand.

There is nothing wrong with tackling players hard or bumping them as long as it's within the rules . And in the case of Maynard certainly justified. He's an enforcer for the filth. That's why other clubs go after him.

Why shouldn't we. We just don't have that mongrel in us.

Maybe we are better for it. Maybe we are gentlemen. I mean as much as I've advocated for Maynard to be roughed up , I don't want us to become like the filth themselves.

But this is different imo.

 We have a beloved player and great contributor removed from the game.

What's three or four bone jarring tackles back in response to that. I mean at the end of the day, it's not really a gentlemen's game.

Maybe next time.

It's probably not going to happen.

 

We shouldn't be targeting Maynard with bone jarring tackles. We should be executing bone jarring tackles on all our opponents, that's the problem with us. Going after Maynard is useless, he is the type of guy who would thrive on it and let's be honest, probably laugh off most of our efforts. So you go and execute bone jarring tackles on Daicos, Sidebottom, Hoskin-Elliott, Hill etc. Nothing illegal just play hard and make them hurt. It should be like that week in, week out. That's footy, that is how you play to win.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,799]

Unlike any of my Dee tragic mates, I watch replays of our games, whether we’ve won or lost.

I recommend to Demonlanders to watch this game in replay and you’ll see that Melbourne really deserved to be much, much closer to Collingwood.

They just couldn’t miss when shooting for goal, and we had 4 posters, as well as several other misses  much easier than the angle goals they so nonchalantly slotted. Plus a couple of random bounces went their way near goal.

I can see now why I felt we’d win , at half time, despite the deficit.  I didn’t realise at that time, that Petracca had suffered a season-ending injury.  In my huge disappointment straight after the game, I walked away from the ground thinking we’d been outclassed.  Having watched the replay,I reckon  we could have given them a real run for their money, even without Trac.

Also, I reckon Clarrie played much better than I’d realised. Ditto with McVee, Bowie ,Fritsch and Windsor.

[OhMyDees 1,834]

8 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Unlike any of my Dee tragic mates, I watch replays of our games, whether we’ve won or lost.

I recommend to Demonlanders to watch this game in replay and you’ll see that Melbourne really deserved to be much, much closer to Collingwood.

They just couldn’t miss when shooting for goal, and we had 4 posters, as well as several other misses  much easier than the angle goals they so nonchalantly slotted. Plus a couple of random bounces went their way near goal.

I can see now why I felt we’d win , at half time, despite the deficit.  I didn’t realise at that time, that Petracca had suffered a season-ending injury.  In my huge disappointment straight after the game, I walked away from the ground thinking we’d been outclassed.  Having watched the replay,I reckon  we could have given them a real run for their money, even without Trac.

Also, I reckon Clarrie played much better than I’d realised. Ditto with McVee, Bowie ,Fritsch and Windsor.

Smart move to watch the replay. We did have multiple times in the game where we were playing all over Collingwood but in many of these periods we just couldn’t convert or turned the ball over at critical moments.

We could have easily closed the gap significantly in the second quarter. We had managed to narrow the margin to 8 points 3/4 of the way through the second quarter. I felt we almost had clicked into gear after Roo’s second goal.

What killed off the game in my mind was the three late goals to Harrison, Krueger, and Hoskin-Elliott before half time which blew the margin out to a defendable 27 points. This combined with losing Petracca really hurt. 

However, it’s not as if we didn’t have a chance to get close in the 3rd but we just couldn’t convert again with 2 goals 5 to their 4 straight. 

I think the effort was there on Monday and we tightened up a lot of our game compared to the Freo game but our execution with hand and foot really cost us. Pies made us pay on turnover with I think 10 goals 1 behind. We didn’t put enough pressure on them to turn the ball over in the right places.  

[Davos 921]

16 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Exactly, we tried tweaks in both 2022 and 2023. Tweaks were not enough. Our players couldn't be cajoled in to simply playing a more flowing attacking style from behind the ball. It was time for a fairly substantial shake up.

And when you shake something up it usually gets worse before it gets better.

This game plan - like any game plan - requires it to be drilled and practiced and it requires the right kind of players. Which is guys who can run with and without the ball and guys who can make decisions.

Clayton Oliver who has done a full preseason in this system would be very useful. Clayton Oliver with no preseason not so useful.

Gus Brayshaw would've been very well suited as an inside mid who could accumulate the ball and make good decisions when handballing at least.

Petracca playing forward more and getting used across half forward by guys streaming through the middle would thrive in that role. We've seen glimpses of it on the days we haven't butchered it across half back on through the middle.

The change is right, we aren't beating teams like Sydney and Collingwood going slow and long bomb footy. And not only that but we aren't developing players as any more than role players in that kind of footy.

I agree with everything you've posted here, except the last sentence. 

I don't think the change is right. We lost to last season's premier by a kick, with no forwardline to speak of and with one of our most important players knocked out of the game in the first quarter. Tweak our system if you must, develop some new set plays for F50 entries (hello Greg Stafford), but we didn't and don't need to change our entire identity just because free flowing footy is sexy again.  

[layzie 33,814]

"I thought we played well but just couldn't kick straight, look how many times we hit the post"

Any assessment of our games from now on that sound like this I'll be taking with a generous pinch of salt. 

We've got enough sample data over time where this has happened again and again and again. if it costing us two finals last year wasn't enough and you're happy to keep trotting this out, I cannot help you to see the light. 

The fact of the matter is that the bad kicking contributes to a bad performance. Part of a good performance means getting enough of those kicks through the big sticks. Time to stop bemoaning bad luck for these results, yes some of those shots were good efforts but near enough is not good enough when it comes to this area and there is no column on the ladder for near misses.

[dees189227 12,394]

Did we get selection wrong? I mean I feel tomlinson could have gone OK against Krueger & helped out may with hoskin-elliot. He would have done better than Howes or even turner. 

Don't even start me on laurie