2024 Game Style

[Adam The God 30,407]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

It's not one result. It's the West Coast game, Carlton game, Brisbane game, the Port game, the Swans game.....

The Carlton game encapsulated all that is wrong with us. Goody goes out to play 'our style' when it is clear the other teams have worked Carlton out. Stop Cripps and Walsh. He doesn't appear to me to adjust his game plan to the team we are playing. He makes the occasional match up change but not so much game plan.

 

 

Of those games, we won the Port game and had a horrible first quarter against Carlton, otherwise the game style held up.

And you can't blame the game style on the West Coast loss. Not sure if you were at the Brisbane game, but that also had nothing to do with game plan. We were as flat as a tack.

As for stop Cripps and Walsh as some sort of master plan, easier said than done.

I acknowledge that we've had 4 very ordinary, verging on pathetic results this year. Game style may have a small impact on this as we adjust to the new style, just as I said Collingwood and Carlton faced. Remember the Carlton nuffies wanted Voss sacked midway through last year and then they make a prelim.

Again, I'm not prepared to write off the game style just yet. I think it's our inability to implement it for 4 quarters that is seeing our form fluctuate.

[WheeloRatings 1,163]

5 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Last night, after Sydney scored a goal from a defensive half turnover, it was quoted they were #1 at scores from this source with 13 points a game.  @WheeloRatings is this correct? It would make no sense to base game plans off defensive half turnover if the number #1 ranked team only scored 12% of their total score from this source?  It would also mean that they score 27 points a game from kickins and defensive half stoppages. Could that be correct?

That doesn't look correct based on the numbers I have. I have them averaging 30.5 points from defensive half turnovers.

Average points scored per match, by source and half, 2024

Team	Kick-in	Stoppage - Centre	Stoppage - Defensive	Stoppage - Forward	Turnover - Defensive	Turnover - Forward
Sydney	3.7	10.2	6.6	20.2	30.5	31.6
Gold Coast	1.9	13.9	6.8	12.8	29.3	27.5
St Kilda	2.2	9.4	4.8	10.8	28.5	16.5
Greater Western Sydney	4.9	12.5	7.5	13.6	25.7	28.3
Geelong	5.5	15.0	7.0	14.8	25.6	27.5
Adelaide	6.3	10.2	4.8	13.4	23.3	20.3
Essendon	3.2	12.3	7.1	16.3	22.4	23.2
Brisbane	4.0	9.9	5.7	18.0	22.3	24.7
Western Bulldogs	5.0	13.7	4.7	21.0	22.3	26.0
Fremantle	2.9	11.3	6.5	14.3	19.8	21.9
North Melbourne	2.8	9.2	4.6	12.5	19.6	19.0
Collingwood	2.8	12.4	6.2	18.1	18.6	29.2
Carlton	3.6	13.1	7.3	17.0	18.0	33.2
Melbourne	3.0	12.6	9.8	14.9	17.9	22.2
Richmond	5.3	4.3	5.6	10.2	17.5	19.3
Port Adelaide	7.2	14.5	7.8	14.4	16.8	29.3
Hawthorn	3.9	7.9	5.5	13.8	16.5	23.3
West Coast	6.5	11.6	6.7	14.8	13.8	18.9

Average points conceded per match, by source and opponent half, 2024

Team	Kick-in	Stoppage - Centre	Stoppage - Defensive	Stoppage - Forward	Turnover - Defensive	Turnover - Forward
North Melbourne	3.1	17.2	8.7	16.5	37.3	36.3
Richmond	9.2	13.8	6.2	16.9	28.5	29.7
Essendon	3.3	12.2	4.5	12.1	24.9	24.8
Carlton	4.5	13.5	6.9	21.8	24.8	18.8
Collingwood	5.8	8.1	6.6	13.0	23.9	23.6
Greater Western Sydney	2.7	12.2	7.2	12.5	23.1	22.4
Brisbane	3.8	8.3	4.9	15.4	22.5	17.9
West Coast	5.3	16.1	6.9	22.4	21.7	21.4
Geelong	3.3	14.2	6.3	19.8	21.6	19.9
Port Adelaide	6.1	9.8	6.8	13.4	19.9	25.0
Western Bulldogs	4.5	9.8	8.0	10.2	19.7	24.2
Gold Coast	2.6	9.3	4.9	14.2	19.2	31.5
Hawthorn	3.3	14.4	8.1	18.7	18.7	27.0
St Kilda	5.0	7.6	8.1	11.2	18.4	26.4
Melbourne	2.2	8.0	5.3	13.4	18.0	24.2
Adelaide	2.8	11.5	7.3	15.1	16.5	24.3
Fremantle	3.2	8.3	5.0	13.5	16.3	22.3
Sydney	4.1	10.1	3.4	12.6	15.1	23.3

[binman 43,757]

Just now, WheeloRatings said:

That doesn't look correct based on the numbers I have. I have them averaging 30.5 points from defensive half turnovers.

Average points scored per match, by source and half, 2024

Team	Kick-in	Stoppage - Centre	Stoppage - Defensive	Stoppage - Forward	Turnover - Defensive	Turnover - Forward
Sydney	3.7	10.2	6.6	20.2	30.5	31.6
Gold Coast	1.9	13.9	6.8	12.8	29.3	27.5
St Kilda	2.2	9.4	4.8	10.8	28.5	16.5
Greater Western Sydney	4.9	12.5	7.5	13.6	25.7	28.3
Geelong	5.5	15.0	7.0	14.8	25.6	27.5
Adelaide	6.3	10.2	4.8	13.4	23.3	20.3
Essendon	3.2	12.3	7.1	16.3	22.4	23.2
Brisbane	4.0	9.9	5.7	18.0	22.3	24.7
Western Bulldogs	5.0	13.7	4.7	21.0	22.3	26.0
Fremantle	2.9	11.3	6.5	14.3	19.8	21.9
North Melbourne	2.8	9.2	4.6	12.5	19.6	19.0
Collingwood	2.8	12.4	6.2	18.1	18.6	29.2
Carlton	3.6	13.1	7.3	17.0	18.0	33.2
Melbourne	3.0	12.6	9.8	14.9	17.9	22.2
Richmond	5.3	4.3	5.6	10.2	17.5	19.3
Port Adelaide	7.2	14.5	7.8	14.4	16.8	29.3
Hawthorn	3.9	7.9	5.5	13.8	16.5	23.3
West Coast	6.5	11.6	6.7	14.8	13.8	18.9

Average points conceded per match, by source and opponent half, 2024

Team	Kick-in	Stoppage - Centre	Stoppage - Defensive	Stoppage - Forward	Turnover - Defensive	Turnover - Forward
North Melbourne	3.1	17.2	8.7	16.5	37.3	36.3
Richmond	9.2	13.8	6.2	16.9	28.5	29.7
Essendon	3.3	12.2	4.5	12.1	24.9	24.8
Carlton	4.5	13.5	6.9	21.8	24.8	18.8
Collingwood	5.8	8.1	6.6	13.0	23.9	23.6
Greater Western Sydney	2.7	12.2	7.2	12.5	23.1	22.4
Brisbane	3.8	8.3	4.9	15.4	22.5	17.9
West Coast	5.3	16.1	6.9	22.4	21.7	21.4
Geelong	3.3	14.2	6.3	19.8	21.6	19.9
Port Adelaide	6.1	9.8	6.8	13.4	19.9	25.0
Western Bulldogs	4.5	9.8	8.0	10.2	19.7	24.2
Gold Coast	2.6	9.3	4.9	14.2	19.2	31.5
Hawthorn	3.3	14.4	8.1	18.7	18.7	27.0
St Kilda	5.0	7.6	8.1	11.2	18.4	26.4
Melbourne	2.2	8.0	5.3	13.4	18.0	24.2
Adelaide	2.8	11.5	7.3	15.1	16.5	24.3
Fremantle	3.2	8.3	5.0	13.5	16.3	22.3
Sydney	4.1	10.1	3.4	12.6	15.1	23.3

Imagine if the people paid to cover the game did their own research...

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Whatever game style we're implementing we need to at least be very good to excellent in what it is we are attempting to implement.

With regard to disposal execution.

We are presently a mostly kicking team vs handball.  Our kicks make up 61.5% of dispoals.  Ranked the 4th highest kickimg team behind the Lions (1st @ 64.3%), then Port & the Swans.

However we are only ranked 9th in the league for kicking efficiency (66.6%).  Sitting just below the AFL average (66.8%).

The Lions in 8th spot (67.2%).  Sydney the best of this bunch (68.7%... ranked 4th) and Port 17th (64.7%).  The lowest ranked kicking efficiency title is presently held by the Cats, ranked last @ 62.8%.

Other teams rely heavily on handball such as Freo, the Doggies, GWS, the Bombers & the Pies.  Freo ranked the No.1 HB efficiency team @ 84.7%.  Followed by the Doggies (83.5 ranked 2nd) and the Bombers (83.4 ranked 3rd).  The Pies & GWS a fair way off the front runners sitting in equal 14th (80.3%) and below the AFL ave of 81.7%.  The lowest ranked team is presently the Demons @ 78.9%.

Stats courtesy of www.wheeloratings.com

[Kent 2,914]

I don't really care what game plan as long as we get a good start in first quarter kick the goals when we get the opportunity and tackle the [censored] out of the opposition

[fr_ap 2,529]

Honestly this is getting uselessly academic & tiresome. At best, game styles are almost entirely aspirational and depend on what each opposition brings. Add in the randomness of 36 on-ground individuals making distinct and random decisions, as well as external factors like weather and umpires...you get the drift. Some sports have narrower guardrails by their nature - we are pretty free form.

Imo the point of the 'gamestyle' isn't to dictate how and when we execute plays -  but is moreso about imbuing principles - contest, defence, tempo - that players can remember and execute in split second decisions in the heat of battle. 

For a few years there, our principles were strong and clear and suited the strengths of our key players and role players. We also established really high standards and fostered a culture that maintained this. The list build was informed by these principles and standards, and so we were in sync at all levels - AFL through to VFL. 

To take advantage of this, we had several of the best players in the AFL in key positions, and some pretty good players in other positions too. Ultimately this is the most important thing. The best players will always control who wins games. 

Following the flag, the culture and standards started to fall away, and crucially we've recruited individuals who were not suited to our principles (Hunter, Schache, Billings, Fullarton). A lot of our 'very good' players who's strengths agreed to our principles (Brayshaw, Hibberd) either retired, regressed (Sparrow, Bowey, Brown, Mcdonald) or left the club (Harmes, Jordon, Jackson, Bedford). All these guys had flaws, but were strong at our principles. We've replaced them with players who have some other strengths, but don't align to the Melbourne principles. They become weak links in the chain.

Most importantly, the remaining players who embodied our principles the most (Viney & Oliver) have fallen off a cliff for different reasons.

We look so unrecognisable because our contest is gone. We're no longer winning more than our share of critical contests - bottom 4 at clearances, bottom 10 at contested footy. Our tackling is weak. 

This is not the fault of the coaching staff, who showed they could build the environment and a set of principles that can be successful. It's way too easy to blame our issues on a "gamestyle". 

Our window is over because of our recruiting and list building since the flag, which has been probably the worst of any team in the comp. Other than Windsor this year, we have not added a single player who has added positively to the team. Not a single one. 

There has been plenty of quality on the market in positions we needed. We either can't identify it, can't attract it, or couldn't pay for it because we've locked up so many on long term contracts. 

Why Tim Lamb gets love around here is beyond me - he's done a horrendous job. He wouldn't be making list decisions in a vacuum, but it ultimately falls on him. 

JT, Josh Mahoney, Roos, Jackson, Brendan Mccartney and Goodwin were responsible for our flag, and Lamb is responsible for our stagnation since.

Gamestyle gamestyle gamestyle bla bla - Goodwin no longer has the cattle at his disposal. 

Edited May 25 by fr_ap

[binman 43,757]

2 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Honestly this is getting uselessly academic & tiresome. At best, game styles are almost entirely aspirational and depend on what each opposition brings. Add in the randomness of 36 on-ground individuals making distinct and random decisions, as well as external factors like weather and umpires...you get the drift. Some sports have narrower guardrails by their nature - we are pretty free form.

Imo the point of the 'gamestyle' isn't to dictate how and when we execute plays -  but is moreso about imbuing principles - contest, defence, tempo - that players can remember and execute in split second decisions in the heat of battle. 

For a few years there, our principles were strong and clear and suited the strengths of our key players and role players. We also established really high standards and fostered a culture that maintained this. The list build was informed by these principles and standards, and so we were in sync at all levels - AFL through to VFL. 

To take advantage of this, we had several of the best players in the AFL in key positions, and some pretty good players in other positions too. Ultimately this is the most important thing. The best players will always control who wins games. 

Following the flag, the culture and standards started to fall away, and crucially we've recruited individuals who were not suited to our principles (Hunter, Schache, Billings, Fullarton). A lot of our 'very good' players who's strengths agreed to our principles (Brayshaw, Hibberd) either retired, regressed (Sparrow, Bowey, Brown, Mcdonald) or left the club (Harmes, Jordon, Jackson). All these guys had flaws, but were strong at our principles. We've replaced them with players who have some other strengths, but don't align to the Melbourne principles. They become weak links in the chain.

Most importantly, the remaining players who embodied our principles the most (Viney & Oliver) have fallen off a cliff for different reasons.

We look so unrecognisable because our contest is gone. We're no longer winning more than our share of critical contests - bottom 4 at clearances, bottom 10 at contested footy. Our tackling is weak. 

This is not the fault of the coaching staff, who showed they could build the environment and a set of principles that can be successful. It's way too easy to blame our issues on a "gamestyle". 

Our window is over because of our recruiting and list building since the flag, which has been probably the worst of any team in the comp. Other than Windsor this year, we have not added a single player who has added positively to the team. Not a single one. 

There has been plenty of quality on the market in positions we needed. We either can't identify it, can't attract it, or couldn't pay for it because we've locked up so many on long term contracts. 

Why Tim Lamb gets love around here is beyond me - he's done a horrendous job. He wouldn't be making list decisions in a vacuum, but it ultimately falls on him. 

JT, Josh Mahoney, Roos, Jackson, Brendan Mccartney and Goodwin were responsible for our flag, and Lamb is responsible for our stagnation since.

Gamestyle gamestyle gamestyle bla bla - Goodwin no longer has the cattle at his disposal. 

Sorry, not sure i follow. 

[fr_ap 2,529]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Sorry, not sure i follow. 

Sure, I rambled a little. I'll sum it up. 

Gamestyle matters very little and our problem is that the team itself isn't much chop, and that culture and standards have fallen. Plenty on here saw it coming.

You lot are wasting your time throwing theoretical "gamestyle, score source" arguments into the void to avoid coming to terms with the more jarring reality that this list is no longer capable of success. It's easier to blame tactics. I get it. Most EPL club owners do the same thing.

[binman 43,757]

22 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Sure, I rambled a little. I'll sum it up. 

Gamestyle matters very little and our problem is that the team itself isn't much chop, and that culture and standards have fallen. Plenty on here saw it coming.

You lot are wasting your time throwing theoretical "gamestyle, score source" arguments into the void to avoid coming to terms with the more jarring reality that this list is no longer capable of success. It's easier to blame tactics. I get it. Most EPL club owners do the same thing.

So if this list does achieve success you will reassess?

[640MD 3,429]

Not sure individuals can be blamed 

recruiting through the draft has been great. 
for the most part .

you only get good players from other clubs if you give value.  Give nothing get nothing of value in return.

i think we are better off trolling through the vfl or country lists for someone who missed as a junior but might have grown a brain at 23.

hope we win this weekend but I think you need to reach the bottom before rising again 

[DemonWA 3,936]

On 22/05/2024 at 21:35, No. 31 said:

He had a great Grand Final. His time has now passed but that should never diminish the positive legacy he left for MFC which was an important contribution to a first flag in 57 years!

Yes I agree. The post chain above was in reposne to people saying we should have gone after someone else other than BBB. That sort of comment forgets Ben filled an important gap that helped us get a flag. He may be on his very last legs but he's still a flag hero in my book

[whatwhat say what 22,938]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Sure, I rambled a little. I'll sum it up. 

Gamestyle matters very little and our problem is that the team itself isn't much chop, and that culture and standards have fallen. Plenty on here saw it coming.

You lot are wasting your time throwing theoretical "gamestyle, score source" arguments into the void to avoid coming to terms with the more jarring reality that this list is no longer capable of success. It's easier to blame tactics. I get it. Most EPL club owners do the same thing.

i for one loathe going for a side that has finished top 4 three years in a row

for the first time in my lifetime

and for the first time the club has done so since the 1960s

[fr_ap 2,529]

3 hours ago, binman said:

So if this list does achieve success you will reassess?

Sure. But they won't. Kidding yourself 

[fr_ap 2,529]

40 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i for one loathe going for a side that has finished top 4 three years in a row

for the first time in my lifetime

and for the first time the club has done so since the 1960s

38 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i for one loathe going for a side that has finished top 4 three years in a row

for the first time in my lifetime

and for the first time the club has done so since the 1960s

I'm not talking about the team we were. I'm talking about the team we are now. 

[DeeZone 10,100]

51 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i for one loathe going for a side that has finished top 4 three years in a row

for the first time in my lifetime

and for the first time the club has done so since the 1960s

Can’t argue with that wwsw I was doubting that I would ever see another but our ‘21 Team did us all proud. You need a lot of luck to win a flag.❤️💙

[whatwhat say what 22,938]

19 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

I'm not talking about the team we were. I'm talking about the team we are now. 

if we finish top 4 this year it'll be four years in a row

we're still there, thereabouts

[titan_uranus 25,043]

10 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Honestly this is getting uselessly academic & tiresome. At best, game styles are almost entirely aspirational and depend on what each opposition brings. Add in the randomness of 36 on-ground individuals making distinct and random decisions, as well as external factors like weather and umpires...you get the drift. Some sports have narrower guardrails by their nature - we are pretty free form.

Imo the point of the 'gamestyle' isn't to dictate how and when we execute plays -  but is moreso about imbuing principles - contest, defence, tempo - that players can remember and execute in split second decisions in the heat of battle. 

For a few years there, our principles were strong and clear and suited the strengths of our key players and role players. We also established really high standards and fostered a culture that maintained this. The list build was informed by these principles and standards, and so we were in sync at all levels - AFL through to VFL. 

To take advantage of this, we had several of the best players in the AFL in key positions, and some pretty good players in other positions too. Ultimately this is the most important thing. The best players will always control who wins games. 

Following the flag, the culture and standards started to fall away, and crucially we've recruited individuals who were not suited to our principles (Hunter, Schache, Billings, Fullarton). A lot of our 'very good' players who's strengths agreed to our principles (Brayshaw, Hibberd) either retired, regressed (Sparrow, Bowey, Brown, Mcdonald) or left the club (Harmes, Jordon, Jackson, Bedford). All these guys had flaws, but were strong at our principles. We've replaced them with players who have some other strengths, but don't align to the Melbourne principles. They become weak links in the chain.

Most importantly, the remaining players who embodied our principles the most (Viney & Oliver) have fallen off a cliff for different reasons.

We look so unrecognisable because our contest is gone. We're no longer winning more than our share of critical contests - bottom 4 at clearances, bottom 10 at contested footy. Our tackling is weak. 

This is not the fault of the coaching staff, who showed they could build the environment and a set of principles that can be successful. It's way too easy to blame our issues on a "gamestyle". 

Our window is over because of our recruiting and list building since the flag, which has been probably the worst of any team in the comp. Other than Windsor this year, we have not added a single player who has added positively to the team. Not a single one. 

There has been plenty of quality on the market in positions we needed. We either can't identify it, can't attract it, or couldn't pay for it because we've locked up so many on long term contracts. 

Why Tim Lamb gets love around here is beyond me - he's done a horrendous job. He wouldn't be making list decisions in a vacuum, but it ultimately falls on him. 

JT, Josh Mahoney, Roos, Jackson, Brendan Mccartney and Goodwin were responsible for our flag, and Lamb is responsible for our stagnation since.

Gamestyle gamestyle gamestyle bla bla - Goodwin no longer has the cattle at his disposal. 

Amongst a bucket load of rubbish in this post is a kernel I agree with: our list is not as good as many think it is. I’m more fortified in that view as every week goes by.

Despite the legions of “Goodwin can’t coach” posters on here, I actually think the truth is that Goodwin’s an excellent coach (tactically and motivationally) who has done wonders with a list that, yes, is star studded at the top, but patchy through the middle and too weak at the bottom, and just doesn’t stack up to most of this year’s flag contenders. 

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

11 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Honestly this is getting uselessly academic & tiresome. At best, game styles are almost entirely aspirational and depend on what each opposition brings. Add in the randomness of 36 on-ground individuals making distinct and random decisions, as well as external factors like weather and umpires...you get the drift. Some sports have narrower guardrails by their nature - we are pretty free form.

Imo the point of the 'gamestyle' isn't to dictate how and when we execute plays -  but is moreso about imbuing principles - contest, defence, tempo - that players can remember and execute in split second decisions in the heat of battle. 

For a few years there, our principles were strong and clear and suited the strengths of our key players and role players. We also established really high standards and fostered a culture that maintained this. The list build was informed by these principles and standards, and so we were in sync at all levels - AFL through to VFL. 

To take advantage of this, we had several of the best players in the AFL in key positions, and some pretty good players in other positions too. Ultimately this is the most important thing. The best players will always control who wins games. 

Following the flag, the culture and standards started to fall away, and crucially we've recruited individuals who were not suited to our principles (Hunter, Schache, Billings, Fullarton). A lot of our 'very good' players who's strengths agreed to our principles (Brayshaw, Hibberd) either retired, regressed (Sparrow, Bowey, Brown, Mcdonald) or left the club (Harmes, Jordon, Jackson, Bedford). All these guys had flaws, but were strong at our principles. We've replaced them with players who have some other strengths, but don't align to the Melbourne principles. They become weak links in the chain.

Most importantly, the remaining players who embodied our principles the most (Viney & Oliver) have fallen off a cliff for different reasons.

We look so unrecognisable because our contest is gone. We're no longer winning more than our share of critical contests - bottom 4 at clearances, bottom 10 at contested footy. Our tackling is weak. 

This is not the fault of the coaching staff, who showed they could build the environment and a set of principles that can be successful. It's way too easy to blame our issues on a "gamestyle". 

Our window is over because of our recruiting and list building since the flag, which has been probably the worst of any team in the comp. Other than Windsor this year, we have not added a single player who has added positively to the team. Not a single one. 

There has been plenty of quality on the market in positions we needed. We either can't identify it, can't attract it, or couldn't pay for it because we've locked up so many on long term contracts. 

Why Tim Lamb gets love around here is beyond me - he's done a horrendous job. He wouldn't be making list decisions in a vacuum, but it ultimately falls on him. 

JT, Josh Mahoney, Roos, Jackson, Brendan Mccartney and Goodwin were responsible for our flag, and Lamb is responsible for our stagnation since.

Gamestyle gamestyle gamestyle bla bla - Goodwin no longer has the cattle at his disposal. 

Ouch.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

10 hours ago, binman said:

So if this list does achieve success you will reassess?

Yeah nah.

We're not achieving success this year.

Last year was our 1998. Had we not lost Melksham and Petty (who was in unreal form) then we would have played off in the grand final at least.

All the stats at the time and the ones On The Couch showed us at the time, had us right in the top tier premiership team. We were playing a brand that was well equipped to win the whole thing.

2023 will always be known to me as the closest opportunity to a flag that got away from us.

[Adam The God 30,407]

Watching many of our games this year, it's pretty clear that we don't know the right time to launch attacks consistently. In fact, we often pick the wrong time and the wrong kick. I would hope it starts to become more instinctive the longer we practice it in game.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I think we're still definitely capable of doing some damage at the end of the season but we'd have to improve a lot, the gap between our best and worst footy is widening, the form of some of our really important players is still a long way off their best and we're relying on a 21 year old and a 24 year old to carry our forward line when one has always been a defender and one is still finding his feet at AFL level, we're asking a fair bit. 

The loss of Gus has been profound on the team. 

The big positive is that at the end of the season and moving forward we will have considerable salary cap space open and some assets to trade so we can plug some holes and look to re-load for 2025 if we don't get there this year. 

a gun key forward would be very very handy 

[PaulRB 6,411]

Loving the discussion, we all want us to improve and have theories on what’s wrong and if/how we could fix it. 
I agree with the “changing the golf swing” analogy, and would add that this strategy has been retarded through the absence of Bradshaw (a huge loss), and the injuries to some of our HB distributors in Salem and Bowey (whom have both been off since return). 
Add to this our difficulties in stabalising our tall forwards with TMac exit, BBB near retirement, JSmith out, and Petty slow to build form post injury. 

Despite all this Goody is still looking to evolve our game and blood new talent.

Agree with the optimists that, while we are deep in the pack as we reach the middle of the seasons race, we are capable of finding our mojo and momentum over the next month…

We shall see.

Go demons! 

[Adam The God 30,407]

So forward half territory game it is again.

Exacerbates scoring inefficiency, but it's pretty effective given our midfield.

[fr_ap 2,529]

20 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Amongst a bucket load of rubbish in this post is a kernel I agree with: our list is not as good as many think it is. I’m more fortified in that view as every week goes by.

Despite the legions of “Goodwin can’t coach” posters on here, I actually think the truth is that Goodwin’s an excellent coach (tactically and motivationally) who has done wonders with a list that, yes, is star studded at the top, but patchy through the middle and too weak at the bottom, and just doesn’t stack up to most of this year’s flag contenders. 

My most important point is the one you agree with. Every other "rubbish" point pretty much supported that. 

So what is it you disagree with? 

That we've added quality? Who? 

That our flag was primarily the work of Jackson (who acquired Roos), Roos (who set the culture and made the call on Oliver), JT (who drafted almost the entire team), Mahoney (who acquired Lever, May and Langdon), or McCartney (who made our young mids the best contest players in the game), or Goodwin (who executed the flag year as a coach)? 

That before setting a game-style, teams identify the principles of their culture? Might be news to you but it actually is how it's done. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

3 hours ago, fr_ap said:

My most important point is the one you agree with. Every other "rubbish" point pretty much supported that. 

So what is it you disagree with? 

That we've added quality? Who? 

That our flag was primarily the work of Jackson (who acquired Roos), Roos (who set the culture and made the call on Oliver), JT (who drafted almost the entire team), Mahoney (who acquired Lever, May and Langdon), or McCartney (who made our young mids the best contest players in the game), or Goodwin (who executed the flag year as a coach)? 

That before setting a game-style, teams identify the principles of their culture? Might be news to you but it actually is how it's done. 

I disagreed with almost all of the rest of it. 

Game plans aren’t aspirational and this conversation isn’t academic. Coaches talk about how they set up to play every week FFS.

Nebulous comments about “principles of their culture” are just that, nebulous. Clubs set about instilling whatever principles they want, of course, but that doesn’t happen devoid of also instilling what they want to do on the field. 

List-wise, Judd McVee’s a star addition to our side, JVR is hugely exciting for a 20 year old and Howes has showed plenty. So whilst our list has holes and isn’t as good as others, it hasn’t been the disaster you suggest it is. 

The culture and standards haven’t “fallen away” to any relevant extent. You just infer that from our comparatively worse seasons in 2022-23, I think.

You named four “very good” players who left. Of those, only Jackson fits that description. Bedford’s the most overrated player in the AFL whilst Harmes and Jordon were in the “regressed” camp.

Put some names to the “quality in the market” who we needed but couldn’t afford? And having identified that we need talent in key positions, is it then a problem that we have salary cap tied up in long term deals for our A-graders that perhaps has prevented us from splashing more cash in 2022-23?

So yeah. Don’t agree with much of it.