The Drums are starting to beat for North

[Demon trucker 1,800]

13 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes. The AFL make money propping up GW$ & GC $un$, but they won’t have any benefit from propping up North. 
The Moment Brayshaw stepped down as President, that was the Final Curtain 

We all know for the future of the game, North Melbourne should have merged with Fitzroy was an easy solution, but the AFL was against it, just because North Melbourne was a good team at a time,  short-term thinking

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

8 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

If I remember correctly we spent more than 4 years down the bottom. 2007 to 2017 was absolute misery. Best finish was maybe 12th(?) and again, without counting, 3 times dead last? 6+ times bottom 3 or 4? 

North have resigned Larkey, have some decent kids and a wise old coach. 3 - 4 more top 30 draft picks at the end of this year and 2025 and 3-4 smart FA pick ups (the don't need to be superstars) and the wheel will turn. 

IMV, the long term viability of all the existing clubs would have been considered by the AFL before signing off on Tasmania and I'd be stunned if relocating an existing team wasn't considered as an option.  

You are forgetting that other clubs also need talent. 
if North were in this situation alone, i would agree with your points. 
But they are not alone, compounded by Tassie’s entry

I doubt North will win a game this year, so it will be difficult to keep the list together. Hawthorn might win 1-2. 
Richmond needs a list rebuild 
I disagree with Tassie coming in right now, but that is happening, so I don’t see how North can survive this next phase

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

14 minutes ago, sue said:

That is doubtless true, but how much less would that revenue be if there was no GWS or Suns?  Surely if there are few members supporting those teams, there also aren't many in NSW/QLD watching those matches. So the extra profit to broadcasters must come from supporters of other teams being prepared to watch their own team play against almost anything.  I guess that may be sufficient.

You are talking about the NSW and QLD markets. It’s big money. The AFL are not losing out of these deals, even if the stadiums are almost empty. It’s all about TV

That is exactly why the Fixture is now a dog’s breakfast 

[Dee*ceiving 1,736]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You are forgetting that other clubs also need talent. 
if North were in this situation alone, i would agree with your points. 
But they are not alone, compounded by Tassie’s entry

I doubt North will win a game this year, so it will be difficult to keep the list together. Hawthorn might win 1-2. 
Richmond needs a list rebuild 
I disagree with Tassie coming in right now, but that is happening, so I don’t see how North can survive this next phase

I can see your point too SWYL. We can agree to disagree. 

Whilst painful and difficult to turn into solvency I don't feel consecutive losing seasons are a significant threat to a clubs livelihood in the current AFL climate. Their is stacks of money to go around and options to create more if/when needed. Plenty of low hanging fruit (IMV)...

Regarding talent, yes there will be less to go around for a time but in 1 or 2 generations I think we'll find Suns, Giants and Devils will have stirred their local talent pools considerably purely through their existence which will benefit every club. 

But, I could be wrong too!

Edited April 30, 2024 by Dee*ceiving

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

7 minutes ago, Demon trucker said:

We all know for the future of the game, North Melbourne should have merged with Fitzroy was an easy solution, but the AFL was against it, just because North Melbourne was a good team at a time,  short-term thinking

They had a Second Chance, that they also turned down 

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

6 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

I can see your point too SWYL. We can agree to disagree. 

Whilst painful and difficult to turn into solvency I don't feel consecutive losing seasons are a significant threat to a clubs livelihood in the current AFL climate. Their is stacks of money to go around and options to create more if/when needed. Plenty of low hanging fruit (IMV)...

Regarding talent, yes there will be less to go around for a time but in 1 or 2 generations I think we'll find Suns, Giants and Devils will have stirred their local talent pools considerably purely through their existence which will benefit every club. 

But, I could be wrong too!

I am not saying other clubs are not in danger of having hard times. The next 10 years could be very difficult. But North are Rock bottom and have been for 2-3 years, this will take a lot more than money to repair. 

[Fat Tony 5,322]

The Kangas are in massive trouble. Free agency, the ineffectiveness of the draft and fixture inequities all make it very hard for small/poor clubs to rebuild from rock bottom. The removal of priority picks and the northern academies also work against the bottom clubs.

The AFL also needs less teams. It makes money from fans watching every game. And even the most avid football watcher is only able to pay attention for max 7 games per week . The Kangas games are always the last on the list to watch and are negative value.

I can see a shot gun marriage between the Suns or Giants and Kangas at some point in the next decade.

[The heart beats true 18,188]

13 hours ago, wobbie said:

My preference is to remove and disband both GWS Giants and GC Suns 😇

My preference is for Collingwood, Carlton and Geelong to disband.

[Jibroni 5,048]

They should have moved to Gold Coast when they had the chance.

James Brayshaw chose to stay and now their stuck in the mud, this situation is on them.

[DubDee 26,395]

3 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

They should have moved to Gold Coast when they had the chance.

James Brayshaw chose to stay and now their stuck in the mud, this situation is on them.

such a flippant thing people say.  Would you have been happy to move to GC in 2015?

No bloody way we would have been happy.  You want your club to fight tooth and nail to remain

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

such a flippant thing people say.  Would you have been happy to move to GC in 2015?

No bloody way we would have been happy.  You want your club to fight tooth and nail to remain

North have failed that fight, that’s the problem 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,072]

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

Giants and Suns aren't going anywhere.

Perfect expression that everyone can agree with.

It can be read positively, meaning that GWS and GCS are certain to remain, or it can be read negatively, meaning GWS and GCS are hopeless and not making any headway.

[Roost it far 9,767]

It’s Richmond and the Saints that are about to suffer. They’re not a lot of high draft picks left come the Tassie side. I hope we manage the next 2 drafts perfectly so we can ride out 4-5 years.

[DubDee 26,395]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But North have been down since 2016, they were offered a Lifeline before that, but turned it down. 
The Major problem is other clubs need young talent as well, as well as a Brand new Club. 
The onfield turn around won’t just happen, they have already done 4 years on the bottom

It smells of Fitzroy to me

North have been down for 7 years and before that made finals 4 out of the previous 5 years. 

The Demons missed finals for 10 years and had some horrific years.

North have Sheezel, Wardlaw, Durrsma, Scott, LDU, McKercher, McDonald, Larkey, Curtis, Powell, etc.  Heaps of great youth.

North are better placed that the teams dropping now, like the Tigers who wont get many draft picks. They just need to get games into the youth. Once they start winning, players will stay

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,072]

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

It’s Richmond and the Saints that are about to suffer. They’re not a lot of high draft picks left come the Tassie side. I hope we manage the next 2 drafts perfectly so we can ride out 4-5 years.

The difference between Richmond and St Kilda on the one hand and North on the other is that both Richmond and St Kilda (and probably every other team in the competition) can survive some periods at or around the bottom of the ladder because of large and/or wealthy support bases. North does not have the same cushion to fall back on having always been a club with a relatively small number of supporters who are not generally considered to be wealthy.

The AFL can only support a club like North Melbourne for as long as the other clubs want it to. And that's Eddie's point...will there come a time when the remaining clubs decide enough is enough? While North remains at the bottom of the ladder, it acts as a handbrake on the health of the competition and puts itself at risk of irrelevance and eventually demise. 

[DubDee 26,395]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

North have failed that fight, that’s the problem 

no they haven't - they still exist and have one of the best ever Coaches at the helm

[Roost it far 9,767]

1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The difference between Richmond and St Kilda on the one hand and North on the other is that both Richmond and St Kilda (and probably every other team in the competition) can survive some periods at or around the bottom of the ladder because of large and/or wealthy support bases. North does not have the same cushion to fall back on having always been a club with a relatively small number of supporters who are not generally considered to be wealthy.

The AFL can only support a club like North Melbourne for as long as the other clubs want it to. And that's Eddie's point...will there come a time when the remaining clubs decide enough is enough? While North remains at the bottom of the ladder, it acts as a handbrake on the health of the competition and puts itself at risk of irrelevance and eventually demise. 

They’ll survive alright but in the bottom 6 for maybe 12-15 years

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

North have been down for 7 years and before that made finals 4 out of the previous 5 years. 

The Demons missed finals for 10 years and had some horrific years.

North have Sheezel, Wardlaw, Durrsma, Scott, LDU, McKercher, McDonald, Larkey, Curtis, Powell, etc.  Heaps of great youth.

North are better placed that the teams dropping now, like the Tigers who wont get many draft picks. They just need to get games into the youth. Once they start winning, players will stay

You are not factoring in Tasmania into this debate. Not all those recruits will be star players at North, not all of them will stay either. 
Clarkson cannot get a win out of them now 

The moment the AFL let Horne Francis walk out after 1 year, North were in serious trouble 

[cookieboc 780]

 Unfortunately, they dont have fans turning up to games like the eagles do, to ride out any storm. 

I dont think the Saints are too far behind them.

[DubDee 26,395]

24 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You are not factoring in Tasmania into this debate. Not all those recruits will be star players at North, not all of them will stay either. 
Clarkson cannot get a win out of them now 

The moment the AFL let Horne Francis walk out after 1 year, North were in serious trouble 

of course I am. As they have the most young high draft picks out of any team and will get the even more, they are better placed than a few teams to ride out the Arrival of Tassie in 4 years. Sure they’ll lose some but get picks in return

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

4 minutes ago, DubDee said:

of course I am. As they have the most young high draft picks out of any team and will get the even more, they are better placed than a few teams to ride out the Arrival of Tassie in 4 years. Sure they’ll lose some but get picks in return

North are just going to get belted week after week 

Where is the Leadership?

[Dee*ceiving 1,736]

Players come and go. The players are the products of the club's leadership. If North get the leadership right, just like we did with Jackson and Roos (and others), (after several failures!), they'll turn the ship around. 

Didn't GC and GWS enter the competition during our doldrums? 

IIRC correctly GWS cost us Scully & our captain but directly netted Hogan, Salem and Tyson. That netted out ok (and we hadn't yet gathered the premiership winning administration)...

The list is not the hardest thing to fix IMO. Getting good leaders into the club and getting them aligned on the same objectives is the number 1 challenge. 

BTW, NM has recorded 50,000 members for the last 2 years

[DubDee 26,395]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

North are just going to get belted week after week 

Where is the Leadership?

I think we all get your point by now. North suck. 

like most terrible teams they have poor leadership. They need to draft well and build it up from within.  Same as we need and the tigers and the blues etc. We all came from the same place North are at. Tigers 34 of pain probably the worst of the lot. Lucky they have so many fans

The wheel will turn for North like it always has 

[Diamond_Jim 12,719]

2 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

BTW, NM has recorded 50,000 members for the last 2 years

Membership numbers are so fudged these days they often mean nothing. Free 3 game memberships given to Tasmania for example in return for Tas Gov't money. (We probably do the same with NT). Child members etc.

The only true guide is attendances.

Corporate box use is another guide. Many companies elect to close their box for a lesser game.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

11 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I think we all get your point by now. North suck. 

like most terrible teams they have poor leadership. They need to draft well and build it up from within.  Same as we need and the tigers and the blues etc. We all came from the same place North are at. Tigers 34 of pain probably the worst of the lot. Lucky they have so many fans

The wheel will turn for North like it always has 

I certainly don’t have your unbridled enthusiasm that North will survive. They are too far down the well.
19 clubs do not add up long term, and i don’t see a 20th Club emerging from the NT, as some others do.