On 16/04/2024 at 07:25, old dee said:

I hope you are right DS. It is early days I don't see it at present.  

Come on OD you have been largely positive recently but this comment shows no common sense. 

Rooyie is still developing and within games and seasons he as a developing player may frustrate.

Yes his marking hadn’t been great getting hands to ball but his very athleticism plus competitiveness and IMO our clearly second best ruck relief for Maxy plays a significant role in our team. 

If he chose to not sign this deal and do a  Jacko our credibility would be an all time LOW at keeping young interstate stars. He is only 21 and plays with greater maturity than many others for his age. 30 games in 90% of Demons fans can see a fantastic career ahead and in one of the hardest key positions in the game biz. FF FP or CHF. 

And if he doesn’t play in any of these roles in our next Flag I’ll bet he will at CHB or FB in any case. 

Look at our recent recruiting and all our mediums have usually beaten our young key talls to regular games. Plenty still knocked Trac ( and wanted to clear him after season2019) before his breakout season in 2020 and 100 games on he wins games for us as a true superstar of the game and brings huge credit off the field as well to our Club. 

Think of Tom Hawkins who took 2/3 seasons to develop and the other talls on our list that are recruited for a KP spot forward or back or ruck. Jed Adams, Mark Jefferson, Will Verrall Max Gawn none were or are instant consistent successes.

Tom Hawkins also resonates the same. 

Players like the above show glimpses of class and style that gives them the best chances of succeeding in this crazy game of AFL.

You can’t see Rooy’s performances developing at this stage because you are frustrated with the glimpses of his amazing potential to be a David Schwarz or Neiter or Stephie May and he is not there fast enough. 

Patience is one virtue many.D/Lers don’t have and thank goodness we don’t pick or manage our players. Leave it to the experts and let’s revel they are monitoring our future stars with appropriate regard to their and our future.

Just as our 2021 Glad came outbid the blue the same thing happens when a young player with potential also does succeed. Just ask Judd McVee and Caleb Windsor. 

Hang in there the ride gets better every 30 games believe. 

  On 16/04/2024 at 13:44, monoccular said:

As was I.  Actually 2 GFs in my first few weeks.  Rusted on early. 

Your a 48 er Mon same as me!! 

JVR. WE LOVE YA. BUT PLEASE JUST TAKE A MARK. DROPPING TOO MANY RIGHT NOW.  

  On 16/04/2024 at 10:32, Jaded No More said:

He did get a nice gift, the honour of playing for Melbourne for 4 more years and probably a lot of money for a 21 year old 😂

 

  On 16/04/2024 at 09:22, rpfc said:

He ain’t Winx and we don’t have a second steeplechaser worthy of a game besides Gawn. 

So chase them steeples, Jacob…

Agree RPFC. I believe JVR’s potential as a MFC player is being enhanced by his 2nd ruck situation and enables him to get into the game and learn about AFL footy not just a KP which he will undoubtedly succeed in being for us. 

Lack of height plays against him, not a ruckman or a key forward.

I would like to see him up the ground, half forward type.

Very happy to hear of this signing. 

Hopefully he has plenty of upside going forward as AFL is a very hard gig to crack into, let alone stay and play regular games.

However at the end of the day it's a performance based sport and, like any other player, Roo will need to hit some marks set to him by the coaches / FD over the months/years to retain his spot.

As to the length of contract, well that is the club's prerogative but for mine i cannot see how anyone but the very cream of the crop gets signed on for more than two or three years at a time.

5 years is about two to three years too many for about 80% of the talent pool of 40 odd listed players at all clubs imho.

In addition, regardless of performance aspects and/or development of prospective talent, you just don't know what's around the corner as a player. 

Anything can and sometimes will go wrong as we've witnessed with so many players over the years.  Gus a great example.  Murphy from the Pies another.  Hannebery on the Saints list for four years without playing for the most part of those.

If we were to trawl through the history books there'd be a list as long as our arms and legs for players who ended up out of the game with years of potential great games left in them, for whatever reason.

Good luck to Roo and here's hoping he ends up being a very very good (or better) KF for us at some point.

He's in a down patch lately. But let's remember he's only been playing for twelve months.

But he's certainly shown enough at a young age that he's definitely a keeper.

Well done to all.

Agree with Bluey that he's probably a chf than a deep fwd.

And while having a great leap and doing ok in the ruck, I don't think he's ideal as a second.

His competitiveness and energy is top shelf and I expect him to have a long a fruitful career in footy. Still needs to learn a few things but he has all the hallmarks of being a very good footballer.

Due to start clucking them all soon and then a nice bag of sausage rolls. 

Edited April 17, 20241 yr by leave it to deever

  On 16/04/2024 at 23:35, bluey said:

Lack of height plays against him, not a ruckman or a key forward.

I would like to see him up the ground, half forward type.

He is 194 cm, isn't he? I bet he can still grow a couple more cm, be 196 or 197 in the end. Not too bad in my view.

  On 16/04/2024 at 23:53, Demon Dynasty said:

Very happy to hear of this signing. 

Hopefully he has plenty of upside going forward as AFL is a very hard gig to crack into, let alone stay and play regular games.

However at the end of the day it's a performance based sport and, like any other player, Roo will need to hit some marks set to him by the coaches / FD over the months/years to retain his spot.

As to the length of contract, well that is the club's prerogative but for mine i cannot see how anyone but the very cream of the crop gets signed on for more than two or three years at a time.

5 years is about two to three years too many for about 80% of the talent pool of 40 odd listed players at all clubs imho.

In addition, regardless of performance aspects and/or development of prospective talent, you just don't know what's around the corner as a player. 

Anything can and sometimes will go wrong as we've witnessed with so many players over the years.  Gus a great example.  Murphy from the Pies another.  Hannebery on the Saints list for four years without playing for the most part of those.

If we were to trawl through the history books there'd be a list as long as our arms and legs for players who ended up out of the game with years of potential great games left in them, for whatever reason.

Good luck to Roo and here's hoping he ends up being a very very good (or better) KF for us at some point.

I think it's good that the club shows loyalty to a player. We have been complaining about the Jacksons and Pettys, so let's reward those who want to stick around.

  On 17/04/2024 at 00:20, ElDiablo14 said:

He is 194 cm, isn't he? I bet he can still grow a couple more cm, be 196 or 197 in the end. Not too bad in my view.

Don't think he'll grow any taller. He's 21

What he lacks in height ..not that 194 is short...he makes up with his giant leap. One of the best.

I would prefer to see him play chf with his athleticism and tank.

And despite his leap maybe have someone taller giving Max a chop out. Although Jvrs skills at ground level are pretty good. Time will tell.

I get the feeling that at the moment he's trying too hard. His hands are hitting the ball too fast and so he's not holding as many. Needs to just drop his hands at the last second and cushion the impact a little. Once he starts holding them which is mostly technical then he will be a weapon.

I really think he's got a huge career ahead of him.

And your spot on about loyalty.

Edited April 17, 20241 yr by leave it to deever

  On 17/04/2024 at 00:22, ElDiablo14 said:

I think it's good that the club shows loyalty to a player. We have been complaining about the Jacksons and Pettys, so let's reward those who want to stick around.

Three years for (any) up and coming developing talent is plenty enough imv Diab.

Five is more than enough for any player but should only be reserved for the top line proven players.

In addition to the points in my earlier post you responded to, you have to leave some incentive in the bank for a player to keep performing.  Even the greats!

  On 16/04/2024 at 20:11, spirit of norm smith said:

JVR. WE LOVE YA. BUT PLEASE JUST TAKE A MARK. DROPPING TOO MANY RIGHT NOW.  

clunked a good one in the last quarter

  On 17/04/2024 at 00:38, Demon Dynasty said:

Three years for (any) up and coming developing talent is plenty enough imv Diab.

Five is more than enough for any player but should only be reserved for the top line proven players.

In addition to the points in my earlier post you responded to, you have to leave some incentive in the bank for a player to keep performing.  Even the greats!

Well, I am sure this deal is not on big coin. The incentive is still there, for him to be able to renegotiate that deal down the road. Once he establishes himself as a top 5 fwd in the league, he can demand more money.

  On 16/04/2024 at 23:35, bluey said:

Lack of height plays against him, not a ruckman or a key forward.

I would like to see him up the ground, half forward type.

Bluey I find this quaint, at 194cm he is identical height to Curnow All Australian Forward, 2cm taller than David Neitz and 1 cm shorter than Szwartta, 2cm shorter than Jeff White. 6’41/2”. He’s no Gorilla McKay 6’7” , Cameron & Lynch 6’6”. He is the same height at Tex Walker and Darcy Fogarty.😁 both very good forwards, why do we feel obliged to downsize ours.

Very pleasing news.

However he needs another gun forward to partner up with him over the next 5 years. JVR alone isn't enough.

As per last Thursday night, he's not going to be the player we want him to be if he's not getting support from his forward colleagues. 0 marks to 3 quarter time between Petty, Fritsch (his early goal was a free not a mark) and BBB who are supposed to be there to support him and pick up the slack is a disgrace on their part. 

  On 17/04/2024 at 01:31, DeeZone said:

Bluey I find this quaint, at 194cm he is identical height to Curnow All Australian Forward, 2cm taller than David Neitz and 1 cm shorter than Szwartta, 2cm shorter than Jeff White. 6’41/2”. He’s no Gorilla McKay 6’7” , Cameron & Lynch 6’6”. He is the same height at Tex Walker and Darcy Fogarty.😁 both very good forwards, why do we feel obliged to downsize ours.

I feel the same but he just doesn't seem as tall as this blokes. Maybe because they have filled out more. I still agree with Bluey that Jvr would be best a chf. Not because of height but more his athleticism.

Below are some of the better KPFs in the game today. Just players who were drafted in the last 6~ years, and the stat is goals kicked in their first four seasons (from debut).

We all want, and need, JVR to be taking a leap this year - but patience is required.

Season #	1	2	3	4
JVR	28
M. King	22	38	52	28
B. King	17	25	47	40
McDonald	9	15	32
Curnow	5	20	34	18
McKay	3	21	26	21
Daniher	3	28	34	43
Naughton	2	32	15	47
Larkey	0	26	14	42
Allen	0	20	18	28
Average	9	25	30	33

For reference, old mate Weideman kicked 3, 3, 10, 11....

Edited April 17, 20241 yr by seventyfour

  On 16/04/2024 at 23:53, Demon Dynasty said:

Very happy to hear of this signing. 

Hopefully he has plenty of upside going forward as AFL is a very hard gig to crack into, let alone stay and play regular games.

However at the end of the day it's a performance based sport and, like any other player, Roo will need to hit some marks set to him by the coaches / FD over the months/years to retain his spot.

As to the length of contract, well that is the club's prerogative but for mine i cannot see how anyone but the very cream of the crop gets signed on for more than two or three years at a time.

5 years is about two to three years too many for about 80% of the talent pool of 40 odd listed players at all clubs imho.

In addition, regardless of performance aspects and/or development of prospective talent, you just don't know what's around the corner as a player. 

Anything can and sometimes will go wrong as we've witnessed with so many players over the years.  Gus a great example.  Murphy from the Pies another.  Hannebery on the Saints list for four years without playing for the most part of those.

If we were to trawl through the history books there'd be a list as long as our arms and legs for players who ended up out of the game with years of potential great games left in them, for whatever reason.

Good luck to Roo and here's hoping he ends up being a very very good (or better) KF for us at some point.

And who do you think can even replace roo if he is dropped? , shaky? What a joke, roo shows more in his bad Games then shaky shows in a good game, he kicked 28 goals last year and is on track for around 30 to 40 goals already, if you can't see that he is already our best tall forward then  WT

  On 16/04/2024 at 23:35, bluey said:

Lack of height plays against him, not a ruckman or a key forward.

I would like to see him up the ground, half forward type.

Lack of height is not a problem as he has a great jump if he used it more by being in front.

He is very competitive and determined and would be lost trying to play a half forward type of role as pace would be a major problem keeping up with pacier players. 

Also he could/can play as a defender if he fails as a forward as a third or second defender KP or in the back pocket from game to game. 

If he is developed further he is a prospect for 200 plus games as a versatile player on our list. 

 

 

  On 17/04/2024 at 01:39, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Very pleasing news.

However he needs another gun forward to partner up with him over the next 5 years. JVR alone isn't enough.

As per last Thursday night, he's not going to be the player we want him to be if he's not getting support from his forward colleagues. 0 marks to 3 quarter time between Petty, Fritsch (his early goal was a free not a mark) and BBB who are supposed to be there to support him and pick up the slack is a disgrace on their part. 

Figured we were hoping to have Petty back to his best alot earlier than we've seen to do just that.  Take the oppo's best defender and act as the major focal point.

If Roo was more experienced / advanced in his development i reckon the FD 'may' have just gone with Roo & BBB till now and had Petty on a longer pre-season prep with a game or two at Casey thrown in before getting the call up.  Eg;  most likely a return targeted for Anzac eve or even against the Cats the week after.

Unfortunately we instead felt the need to rush Petty back weeks too soon, most likely for the very purpose discussed above re support for Roo. 

Having said that, at some point over the next few seasons, Roo also needs to start hitting some highs and winning a fair share of the 50/50s.  Even against tougher opponents.

The development of this aspect of his game is critical, not just for Roo, but for our fortunes in general during his time (and Petty's) with us.

BBB probably won't go on beyond this season so we are then left with Roo & Petty holding the fort as KFs for 2025.

  On 17/04/2024 at 02:32, seventyfour said:

Below are some of the better KPFs in the game today. Just players who were drafted in the last 6~ years, and the stat is goals kicked in their first four seasons (from debut).

We all want, and need, JVR to be taking a leap this year - but patience is required.

Season #	1	2	3	4
JVR	28
M. King	22	38	52	28
B. King	17	25	47	40
McDonald	9	15	32
Curnow	5	20	34	18
McKay	3	21	26	21
Daniher	3	28	34	43
Naughton	2	32	15	47
Larkey	0	26	14	42
Allen	0	20	18	28
Average	9	25	30	33

For reference, old mate Weideman kicked 3, 3, 10, 11....

Can we also add efficiency to this chart?

I am pretty sure JVR was above 70%, and few if any out in the full. Great set shot technique.

  On 17/04/2024 at 03:58, ElDiablo14 said:

Can we also add efficiency to this chart?

I am pretty sure JVR was above 70%, and few if any out in the full. Great set shot technique.

I just pulled it all from AFL tables, I don't think that has efficiency. You could do a basic G:B ratio but it wouldn't have out on the full.

The analysis would be better if it was 'average goals per game' for the first 50 games, rather than goals per season. It's crude analysis but still highlights that JVR has started well.

Shades of when Hawthorn gave Franklin a long early contract when he was still a teenager, and Franklin went on to kick 300 goals over the next 4 seasons.

Definitely the same. Okay, so maybe just 200 goals, but that's the effect of the modern game. ;)

But, seriously, Van Rooyen has shown enough that we can be confident he'll be a valuable contributor and a relatively flexible key forward throughout a full AFL career.

  On 16/04/2024 at 11:57, DubDee said:

I literally cannot remember a time when all our players wanted to sign up in the past 40 years

The club and staff have to be commended 

Poor start to 2024 but he has the aggression and skill to be a 200 game KPF

You nailed the crux of the issue DD.  

So proud of a club with leadership and culture that now is a destination club.  All one way to us.

Yes I know about Hogan - but absolute extenuating circumstances to go home , and who can blame Jacko - he became a premiership star with us, so home then became way more attractive.. Understandable.

 

  On 17/04/2024 at 06:19, Demon17 said:

You nailed the crux of the issue DD.  

So proud of a club with leadership and culture that now is a destination club.  All one way to us.

Yes I know about Hogan - but absolute extenuating circumstances to go home , and who can blame Jacko - he became a premiership star with us, so home then became way more attractive.. Understandable.

 

Jackson's case is also due to the pathetic protection that clubs have with their high draft picks. I have said it many times, 2 year contracts are laughable for top 10 players.

It should be 3 + 1 (club option).