The Premiership Window Closing?

[The Taciturn Demon 487]

On 11/03/2024 at 17:07, Sydee said:

Is it good and better than half the comp?

Not anymore, I don't think. 

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,367]

Edited August 2 by Rab D Nesbitt

[Demon17 5,188]

36 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Almost poetic that our window officially shut against the team we won a flag against.

And the losing margin of 51 points was the same as that to the Dogs by us in the 1954 grand final.

We all know what happened next.

But Norm was in charge then.

[No. 31 1,235]

I think some Demons supporters get too carried away with the 2021 Flag. It was a season where at the right time everything clicked in terms of lack of injuries, form and momentum. We all know that that the 2021 to 2023 period the Dees had a class defence and a quality midfield but the real question mark was always up front, and continued reliance on Ben Brown and TMac was hoping that lightning strikes twice again in the same spot.

In 2022 all energies should have been put into trading in an established key forward. The Gawn/Grundy experiment was worth a shot but it didn't work out.

The recent trading in of older NQR players like Schache, Billings, Hunter etc has been a real fail whilst I think the drafting of younger players has actually been decent. The loss of some depth players like Harmes, Bedford and Jordon was unfortunate and more rotations may have kept some of them at MFC (perhaps?).

Still, there is a solid core of quality up front with Van Rooyen, Pickett and Fritsch. I would go all out to secure one of the King twins from the Saints or the Suns.

I think the Dees need new blood and new approaches via fresh assistant coaches. They really need to stop with the Petty & Turner up front experiment, it is just not working.

There is still a very good core at the Dees and some promising younger players, just need some fresh blood and ideas in the football department and a bit of savvy trading and the Dees coukd be contening again very soon ... my wine glass is half full 🍷🙂

 

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

11 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

I think some Demons supporters get too carried away with the 2021 Flag. It was a season where at the right time everything clicked in terms of lack of injuries, form and momentum. We all know that that the 2021 to 2023 period the Dees had a class defence and a quality midfield but the real question mark was always up front, and continued reliance on Ben Brown and TMac was hoping that lightning strikes twice again in the same spot.

In 2022 all energies should have been put into trading in an established key forward. The Gawn/Grundy experiment was worth a shot but it didn't work out.

The recent trading in of older NQR players like Schache, Billings, Hunter etc has been a real fail whilst I think the drafting of younger players has actually been decent. The loss of some depth players like Harmes, Bedford and Jordon was unfortunate and more rotations may have kept some of them at MFC (perhaps?).

Still, there is a solid core of quality up front with Van Rooyen, Pickett and Fritsch. I would go all out to secure one of the King twins from the Saints or the Suns.

I think the Dees need new blood and new approaches via fresh assistant coaches. They really need to stop with the Petty & Turner up front experiment, it is just not working.

There is still a very good core at the Dees and some promising younger players, just need some fresh blood and ideas in the football department and a bit of savvy trading and the Dees coukd be contening again very soon ... my wine glass is half full 🍷🙂

 

Why wouldn't your mob let us get McKay?

I am surprised he wanted to stay under Curnows Shadow. He could've been our star forward and Premiership player in 2023.

[BDA 22,743]

The window is only slightly ajar

rebuild v try to extend our window? I'm not sure i trust Lamb given our recent track record. I'd rather we keep our picks and bring in young talent. Tassy are coming in soon so we can't afford to bottom out at the same time as they join.

we'll probably use our first on a midfielder and trade to bring in depth. And hope Clarry, Viney, Maxy, May can get back to their best and/or stay injury free. 

I don't know but maybe trading out those who won't be around for our next flag and go to the draft could be the go

 

[Demonland 72,155]

 

[Demonsone 2,037]

Goodwin & Co have managed to unravel this team & slam the premiership window shut, the disastrous trades over the last 2 seasons with list cloggers sitting @ Casey, whilst losing Jordan & Harmes, the ruck situation after having Jackson & Grundy,Goodwin conceding we have no other rucks worthy whilst Gawn is playing on 1 leg is a joke! Footy dept needs a review of what’s occurred and a clean out of coaches & the list cloggers! I have carried on about the pathetic trades but this is what successful multiple premiership teams eg tigers, cats , hawks  do, they improve theirs not weaken them!

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

We are not disimilar to a Sunbird motor in a SS Commodore! Looks great but....

The “Star Fire 4…”

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

59 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

I think some Demons supporters get too carried away with the 2021 Flag. It was a season where at the right time everything clicked in terms of lack of injuries, form and momentum. We all know that that the 2021 to 2023 period the Dees had a class defence and a quality midfield but the real question mark was always up front, and continued reliance on Ben Brown and TMac was hoping that lightning strikes twice again in the same spot.

In 2022 all energies should have been put into trading in an established key forward. The Gawn/Grundy experiment was worth a shot but it didn't work out.

The recent trading in of older NQR players like Schache, Billings, Hunter etc has been a real fail whilst I think the drafting of younger players has actually been decent. The loss of some depth players like Harmes, Bedford and Jordon was unfortunate and more rotations may have kept some of them at MFC (perhaps?).

Still, there is a solid core of quality up front with Van Rooyen, Pickett and Fritsch. I would go all out to secure one of the King twins from the Saints or the Suns.

I think the Dees need new blood and new approaches via fresh assistant coaches. They really need to stop with the Petty & Turner up front experiment, it is just not working.

There is still a very good core at the Dees and some promising younger players, just need some fresh blood and ideas in the football department and a bit of savvy trading and the Dees coukd be contening again very soon ... my wine glass is half full 🍷🙂

 

And let’s all hope that Carlton get Smashed 

Enough of your condescending Wine Glass

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

1 hour ago, No. 31 said:

I think some Demons supporters get too carried away with the 2021 Flag. It was a season where at the right time everything clicked in terms of lack of injuries, form and momentum. We all know that that the 2021 to 2023 period the Dees had a class defence and a quality midfield but the real question mark was always up front, and continued reliance on Ben Brown and TMac was hoping that lightning strikes twice again in the same spot.

In 2022 all energies should have been put into trading in an established key forward. The Gawn/Grundy experiment was worth a shot but it didn't work out.

The recent trading in of older NQR players like Schache, Billings, Hunter etc has been a real fail whilst I think the drafting of younger players has actually been decent. The loss of some depth players like Harmes, Bedford and Jordon was unfortunate and more rotations may have kept some of them at MFC (perhaps?).

Still, there is a solid core of quality up front with Van Rooyen, Pickett and Fritsch. I would go all out to secure one of the King twins from the Saints or the Suns.

I think the Dees need new blood and new approaches via fresh assistant coaches. They really need to stop with the Petty & Turner up front experiment, it is just not working.

There is still a very good core at the Dees and some promising younger players, just need some fresh blood and ideas in the football department and a bit of savvy trading and the Dees coukd be contening again very soon ... my wine glass is half full 🍷🙂

 

Nice trolling but we were as dominant via nearly every stat as the Bombers were in 2000 and had to do it while living in COVID bubbles away from home. 

I'd argue that no premiership in the last ten years was as deserved on in season form and performance. 

The real argument is why we were not able to capitalise on that list more than once. 

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

My take is we did everything right to build a list capable of winning flags - great trades, great drafting.

But the after the flag because the flag bought a release of pressure we made some list management mistakes and had some bad luck and suddenly we have May and Gawn the wrong side of thirty and Viney, Clarie and Trac getting on as well.

We lost the talent of Jackson, Brayshaw, lost depth in Harmes and Jordan and we brought in players that were never going to be more than depth in recent times. 

The window is over unless there are dramatic changes in trade period. We are relying on veterans.

Edited August 3 by Norm Smith's Curse

[No. 31 1,235]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And let’s all hope that Carlton get Smashed 

Enough of your condescending Wine Glass

Why is it condescending? The Dees have a flag from 3 years ago and the Blues have zilch in 3 decades.

[No. 31 1,235]

1 hour ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Nice trolling but we were as dominant via nearly every stat as the Bombers were in 2000 and had to do it while living in COVID bubbles away from home. 

I'd argue that no premiership in the last ten years was as deserved on in season form and performance. 

The real argument is why we were not able to capitalise on that list more than once. 

I wasn't trolling. I don't think there are any question marks about the 2021 Flag, the Dees were easily the best side that year and convincingly won the Grand Final. It being a Covid impacted year is no factor in my mind, same conditions for all Victorian clubs. My point is that it was achieved with what objectively was a mediocre forward line and not addressing that weakness is why the Dees sit on one flag instead of being a dynasty team like Richmond were recently.

Edited August 3 by No. 31
Typo

[leave it to deever 17,511]

3 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

I wasn't trolling. I don't think there are any question marks about the 2021 Flag, the Dees were easily the best side that year and convincingly eon the Grand Final. It being a Covid effected year is no factor in my mind, same conditions for all Victorian clubs. My point is that it was achieved with what objectively was a mediocre forward line and not addresding that weakness is why the Dees sit on one flag instead of being a dynasty team like Richmond were recently.

It was a fwd line that failed in four finals. Totally.

First with Bbb and then Tmac.

The other fwds did dodly squat and the Mfc just closed it's eyes each year .

In what other clubs would a bloke like Petty get gifted 18 games for a return of 6 goals. Madness.

Now our midfield has collapsed as well.

I see trouble in 25 even if the club doesn't again.

 

[No. 31 1,235]

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Why wouldn't your mob let us get McKay?

I am surprised he wanted to stay under Curnows Shadow. He could've been our star forward and Premiership player in 2023.

McKay is a different type of player to Curnow, don't see them as direct competitors even if both are key forwards. I actually think Harry has been having a better season than Charlie this year (in terms of contribtion to the side and team play).

Yes, he would have been a handy player for the Dees.

I think Harry genuinely likes it at Princes Park and believes he can win a flag with this group of players who he gets along well with. Harry is back in the side tonight so hoping he can help stick it to Collingwood and get us back on track for the finals by kicking a few goals tonight 🙏

[layzie 33,793]

2 hours ago, No. 31 said:

I think some Demons supporters get too carried away with the 2021 Flag. It was a season where at the right time everything clicked in terms of lack of injuries, form and momentum. We all know that that the 2021 to 2023 period the Dees had a class defence and a quality midfield but the real question mark was always up front, and continued reliance on Ben Brown and TMac was hoping that lightning strikes twice again in the same spot.

In 2022 all energies should have been put into trading in an established key forward. The Gawn/Grundy experiment was worth a shot but it didn't work out.

The recent trading in of older NQR players like Schache, Billings, Hunter etc has been a real fail whilst I think the drafting of younger players has actually been decent. The loss of some depth players like Harmes, Bedford and Jordon was unfortunate and more rotations may have kept some of them at MFC (perhaps?).

Still, there is a solid core of quality up front with Van Rooyen, Pickett and Fritsch. I would go all out to secure one of the King twins from the Saints or the Suns.

I think the Dees need new blood and new approaches via fresh assistant coaches. They really need to stop with the Petty & Turner up front experiment, it is just not working.

There is still a very good core at the Dees and some promising younger players, just need some fresh blood and ideas in the football department and a bit of savvy trading and the Dees coukd be contening again very soon ... my wine glass is half full 🍷🙂

 

I don't think this post is far wide of the mark and some of the comments to it are a bit unfair. We did have a lot come together that year and we did need reinforcements in those areas to continue to challenge at the pointy end. 

Personally I think we learned about what a lot of other teams go through when they win a flag and thinking they have a list to compete for another. The reality is it's bloody hard to stay up there unless you're constantly improving the list. 

The last paragraph is very true and not condescending, we can get back with good list management.

[adonski 12,058]

Our trading the last few years has been really poor

Lots of players getting traded for 2nd / 3rd round picks recently like Chol, d'Ambrossio, Elijah Hollands, Acres a couple years back among others who we've not even been linked to has been interesting

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

32 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

It was a fwd line that failed in four finals. Totally.

First with Bbb and then Tmac.

The other fwds did dodly squat and the Mfc just closed it's eyes each year .

In what other clubs would a bloke like Petty get gifted 18 games for a return of 6 goals. Madness.

Now our midfield has collapsed as well.

I see trouble in 25 even if the club doesn't again.

 

We all see the trouble. Don’t need a Carlton Supporter with a glass of Red in his hand, to point it out. 
 

I would love to know how Carlton can keep all these Players on Big Contracts and be under the Salary Cap

That would be a Fascinating read….

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

10 minutes ago, adonski said:

Our trading the last few years has been really poor

Lots of players getting traded for 2nd / 3rd round picks recently like Chol, d'Ambrossio, Elijah Hollands, Acres a couple years back among others who we've not even been linked to has been interesting

This is the Major problem. We have traded players in who are Casey regulars

Trading has been appalling…

Do outside players not want to come to The MFC, is it a problem?

[adonski 12,058]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is the Major problem. We have traded players in who are Casey regulars

Trading has been appalling…

Do outside players not want to come to The MFC, is it a problem?

Reckon it's more a case of the list management overrating our depth and not being interesting them

Guys like d'Ambrossio or Chol as examples wouldn't have had that many suitors, and 12 months ago we would have been a much more attractive prospect than the Hawks

[IRW 1,387]

22 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

McKay is a different type of player to Curnow, don't see them as direct competitors even if both are key forwards. I actually think Harry has been having a better season than Charlie this year (in terms of contribtion to the side and team play).

Yes, he would have been a handy player for the Dees.

I think Harry genuinely likes it at Princes Park and believes he can win a flag with this group of players who he gets along well with. Harry is back in the side tonight so hoping he can help stick it to Collingwood and get us back on track for the finals by kicking a few goals tonight 🙏

Are you suggesting that finals are still a possibility this year? 

However slim

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

4 minutes ago, adonski said:

Reckon it's more a case of the list management overrating our depth and not being interesting them

Guys like d'Ambrossio or Chol as examples wouldn't have had that many suitors, and 12 months ago we would have been a much more attractive prospect than the Hawks

Either way heads have got to roll 

We cannot allow arrogance to be apart of decision making 

We haven’t traded in a Top Liner into the Club since Ed Langdon (Grundy aside)

It’s just unacceptable 

[Little Richard 6,262]

2021 was an incredible year - everything clicked for us, every single player was playing out of their skin. That continued on into 2022 and then our momentum and form started to peter out. Throw in some mental fragility and we were cooked. I don't however, believe we're doomed to bottom out as part of the 'rebuild'.

We still have serious quality on our list, and if Oliver finds his feet again next year, we can bounce back quickly I believe. A midfield consisting of Petracca, Oliver, Rivers, McVee, Windsor, Langdon, Kozzy rolling through, and hopefully a B grade midfielder that we can trade in is going to cause problems for even the best teams.

In terms of the forwards, I think we have the makings of our best attacking group in years. JVR, Kozzy, Fritsch, Chandler, ANB, and then add in Waterman if we can get it done - that's a really solid forward group. Our defence is going to suffer as May ages, but Lever has quite a few good years left, Petty is a very good key back, and Turner has serious ability at both ends of the ground. We can keep building around them, and I like the look of Howes.

Anyway, I've got faith that it's not as bad as it looks right now and we can bounce back quickly. Can we challenge again in the next couple of years? Not so sure about that, but I believe we can definitely make the finals next year and if we keep developing the young crop who knows.

[adonski 12,058]

13 minutes ago, Little Richard said:

2021 was an incredible year - everything clicked for us, every single player was playing out of their skin. That continued on into 2022 and then our momentum and form started to peter out. Throw in some mental fragility and we were cooked. I don't however, believe we're doomed to bottom out as part of the 'rebuild'.

We still have serious quality on our list, and if Oliver finds his feet again next year, we can bounce back quickly I believe. A midfield consisting of Petracca, Oliver, Rivers, McVee, Windsor, Langdon, Kozzy rolling through, and hopefully a B grade midfielder that we can trade in is going to cause problems for even the best teams.

In terms of the forwards, I think we have the makings of our best attacking group in years. JVR, Kozzy, Fritsch, Chandler, ANB, and then add in Waterman if we can get it done - that's a really solid forward group. Our defence is going to suffer as May ages, but Lever has quite a few good years left, Petty is a very good key back, and Turner has serious ability at both ends of the ground. We can keep building around them, and I like the look of Howes.

Anyway, I've got faith that it's not as bad as it looks right now and we can bounce back quickly. Can we challenge again in the next couple of years? Not so sure about that, but I believe we can definitely make the finals next year and if we keep developing the young crop who knows.

I think pending Oliver's retention/form/health/fitness/sanity/etc we could bounce back reasonably quickly if we draft and trade well this off season