Jump to content

PODCAST: QF vs Collingwood


Demonland

Recommended Posts

Part 1:

While there is massive carry on over losing, a few observations:

- Pies generally cleaner with the ball and get better entries as often on the break into clear forward line, also Sidebottom excellent passes were a highlight in the fast half for Pies ☹️

- Demons not as clean with ball, lots of entries into crowded forward line, but we still had multiple shot on goal where we should have done better, probably left 18 points slip in Q4 alone

- Brayshaw being taken out, unsettled Demons in 1st quarter and also hurt us for rest of game

So only losing by 7 points is frustrating but we can beat the Pies!

Re the forward line misfiring, losing BBB, Petty and Melksham or equivalent is going to damage any forward connection! Add in TMac and Fritsch injuries just hurts each players form coming back. Fritsch kicks his shank from 40, like he normally would and I think we go onto win the game!

JVR out, creates opportunity to bring Grundy in! I would ruck him 80% first half, Max at FF in goal square Pickett or Chandler next to him, and let Fritsch go we’re he wants to in forward line and every other for more on 50 metre arc or higher! One defender on Max won’t cut it, so the extra defender going to Max, leaves a free player, who must then go to space! If not working at half time move Max into ruck 80% and flip around! 


Your thoughts on Max one out in the square, ideally with Kossie?

Part 2:

Defensively as McKay is likely out, bring in Turner, Lever plays miles better with extra tall. Also with Rivers, McVee, Bowey, Hibberd and Salem we can cover Carlton small options and revert to only two talks in the backline if required! Agree or disagree?

Ins/Outs
JVR - Grundy (reasoning above)

Brayshaw - Jordon (most like for like available)

Laurie - Turner (Laurie unsighted, Turner helps Lever)

Sub - TMac (Forward line was too tall and didn’t take enough marks last week, so TMac, JVR and Smith 3 talls replaced with Max/Grundy and Smith) Smith or Grundy not working bring in TMac mid/late 3rd qtr! Thoughts ?

Effectively Forward:

Max FF deep trying for one out

Smith CHF playing high 

Thanks for the podcast, you guys are terrific!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No question just wish this podcast could be brought forward a couple of days. The MFCSs is biting hard after that loss now with no Gus, no Roo, a,b,c and D options taken from Forward line! Need some positive Binners and George insights to bring the mood back up! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm something of a stats man ala Binman. I believe that, overtime, statistical dominance in key areas of the game translates to scoreboard dominance.

 However, the Dees have an issue. I believe that we lose more games when the expected score predicts that we should have won than any other team. I wish I had access to the predicted score database over the last few years because I would like quantify that statement but I'd be surprised if it's not the case. 

So, I now believe that there's something more intangible going on that the stats aren't telling us. I feel like we're the reverse Collingwood. We lose when we should win and they win when they should lose. 
 

So what's going on? I feel like there's something in our gameplan more significant than straight kicking. Our mistakes often cost us easy goals. Our full ground defensive web takes a huge amount of effort and I'm worried that it leaves us spread out too thin to run in waves on the turnover. It feels like the goals we concede are easy goals, where as ours are the result of brutally hard efforts and contest work. Teams seem content to play the game in our forward half, causing congestion and basically forcing us to kick stoppage goals.

I'd love your thoughts on this. 

I feel like we're good enough to beat any team but we make everything harder than it needs to be. This is why these losses are so frustrating.

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Clap 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/8/2023 at 10:42 PM, sam6172 said:

I'll keep it short and ask the question that is really the only one that matters. Can we beat Carlton with the team we have?

Thanks guys.

Yes. If we play like we did against Collingwood and kick straight this time, should be good enough to win comfortably.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve just finished watching the replay. It wasn’t as obvious to me at the ground, but I think the main part of the reason we lost is the coaches didn’t anticipate some of the structural changes Collingwood implemented behind the ball. They held their defenders (particularly Moore and IQ) very deep. Perhaps it was the absence of Murphy/Moore for a few weeks but Collingwood were pressing too high the last few weeks and were leaking goals out the back. They clearly worked on that during the bye. Even when our players created a forward half turn-over, Moore was always there in our D50. Our coaches were too slow to react to this and I didn’t think any meaningful action was done to bring their defence higher. Perhaps bringing up JVR, Smith and McDonald higher up the ground, isolating Kozzy. Even isolating Trac if that was an option. Collingwood were successful isolating Elliott but unfortunately for them he couldn’t kick straight and Hibberd was huge.

I agree at times we bombed it in and didn’t try and bring up the Pies defenders, but I think one thing we’re overlooking is the smart and strategic coaching by Collingwood to hold their defenders back. They were excellent and we failed to adjust.

So my question to Binman/George is this:

If Carlton employ a similar tactic and hold Weitering really deep, what can our forwards and mids do? When Carlton has their defence set, do we kick around and chip the ball to bring forward their defence? Isolate Petracca and encourage the other forwards to get higher? I felt we had near to none genuine one-on-ones on Thursday.

I haven’t watched the second half of the Swans v Blues game in detail, but I’m keen to see how Sydney got really good looks against the Carlton defence.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi gents, like many others on Demonland, watching us fall behind early against the Pies made me want to comb my hair with a potato peeler. 
 

It seems we often take a while to get going. How do you fix slow starts? Is it even possible, or is the Dees’ propensity to play from behind just one of those mysteries of the universe? 

if we concede the first 3 to the Blues I’ll have an outer body experience from which I may never recover.

thanks in advance 

Edited by FreedFromKysaiah
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OMG - where do we start?  

Obviously the cause of most of our losses has been, and remains, our forward line and mid-forward connection, such as it is.

What is the point, George, of us winning "expected score" week after week - it is the actual score that we, and the football world at large,  care about.   The Demons' inability to convert has become ingrained as the hallmark of this squad; players, coaches and maybe even recruiters.      100%, and it frustrates the bejeezus out of most of us fans.

Bomb it long to a huge pack, when we don't have any pack marking forwards!   What could be more insane.  Wouldn't it be better to bomb it long (if they must) into  any semi-empty space and at least have an opportunity for a crumber to crumb?    Or to spear it into space or even a contest low?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, (especially when it clearly doesn't work)  and expecting a different result.   

If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you always got.

Thinking ahead to the off season, (hopefully >3 weeks away) surely the club must get a new and different thinking forward coach.

What are the panel's thoughts on replacing JVR?  Some on this board have suggested Disco Turner.  I am unaware if he has ever played or even trained with the forwards.  Would "trying him out" in a cutthroat final be sane?  Maybe it would: could it be worse?   My guess would be Schache though I don't in any way enthuse.  Was TMc as bad as many here post?

And of course there is the elephant in the room - Brundy.   Is there any place at all for him?  Desperation all forward - really desperate??  Extra tall mid?????    I am not sure if as sub he would offer sufficient versatility.

Many thanks once again for your hard work and fantastic podcast - even after such a heartbreaking loss your calm analysis (sometimes) helps allay my MFCSS.

 

Edited by monoccular
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more question from me, does Goodwin need to instruct the players to use the corridor more? We are ranked 18th from use of the corridor and it’s robbing us opportunities of really good looks. There was a great segment on this on First Crack on Saturday night. I feel this must be tweaked for Friday.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I have three questions for the panel:

1. What happened to our pressure?  Finals demand pressure and so does our game style. Can we win with an average pressure of only 176 like last week and without hitting levels of 200 for at least some quarters, and from who and where on the ground do we need more pressure?

2. What was our plan to nullify their rebound off the half-back?  This is critical to the way they play, but our small defensive forwards seemed to be missing in action and our entries into our forward 50 seemed very shallow particularly in the first quarter or so, enabling them to waltz it out of defence and rebound multiple times in the first quarter.  If they hadn't missed some gettable set shots from these rebounds they would have been much further ahead in the first Q.

3. Where's the running in waves that we saw in previous seasons and the faster ball movement we saw at the beginning of this season including our better kicks such as Bowey, Hunter, Salem, etc. taking on the corridor? As ABG pointed out above, there were opportunities to move through the corridor and move the ball more quickly, but we often opted for the safety of moving along the boundary line and slowed down our movements into our forward 50 allowing them plenty of time to setup defensively.  Do you think we lowered our risk profile too much because of the weather which didn't seem to be as wet as predicted earlier in the week?

Really frustrating and emotionally draining game on many levels (I really hope Gus is okay) and thus very much looking forward to your excellent podcast.  And thankfully the weather looks perfect for our game against the Blues!  

Edited by Nairobi_Demon
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not so much a question but a general thought Gents.

I no longer care if we win or lose this Friday.

All I need to see is the character of this group, first and foremost to stand up for their mate Angus. Second for the proud team I know they are after what they accomplished in 2021.

Please MFC don't start flat like last Thursday. Let's leave it all out on the field!

 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With plenty of chat around expected score again (we should’ve won by 3 goals), I wanted to ask about another element of our forward line. 
When watching other teams, I’m always amazed at how open their forward lines are and how easily they can get a mark inside 50 compared to us. Richo was mentioning in the commentary our lack of marks inside 50. 
Can we still keep a high number of inside 50s with a more open forward line? I feel that shifting our players outside of the 50 will protect against the rebound game of Carlton and Collingwood, while allowing more space to lead into, hopefully resulting in more marks inside 50. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys,

Looking forward to this one! A few of my thoughts you might want to discuss.  
 

- the Pies fans seem to be mostly angry, aggressive, horrible, disgusting people. Im so happy im not one of them. 
- pristine dry conditions this Friday will be perfect for talls up fwd and down back. 
- Dees ran out the game well against the Pies. Im hoping Blues are out if gas. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does the football media need to be held to a higher standard? In the 24 hr news cycle and Twitterverse have we allowed this to become too much of a free for all where serious issues like concussion and CTE are concerned?

In the Alir and Jones collision we had ex players like Cornes defending medical staff and inadvertently (in my view) playing down the seriousness of this issue.

We've now got ex players saying that Maynard's act was a pure football act and some even suggesting that Brayshaw should have protected himself better. 

Concussion and CTE is a serious health issue that is transcending the expert game knowledge and commentary of ex footballers. I believe these figures have a platform and with that, a responsibility to not provide misinformation and headlines that could influence the public and players at lower levels in a negative way. Does this field and this subject need to be better regulated in the media?

 

  • Clap 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, layzie said:

Does the football media need to be held to a higher standard? In the 24 hr news cycle and Twitterverse have we allowed this to become too much of a free for all where serious issues like concussion and CTE are concerned?

In the Alir and Jones collision we had ex players like Cornes defending medical staff and inadvertently (in my view) playing down the seriousness of this issue.

We've now got ex players saying that Maynard's act was a pure football act and some even suggesting that Brayshaw should have protected himself better. 

Concussion and CTE is a serious health issue that is transcending the expert game knowledge and commentary of ex footballers. I believe these figures have a platform and with that, a responsibility to not provide misinformation and headlines that could influence the public and players at lower levels in a negative way. Does this field and this subject need to be better regulated in the media?

 

They are trying to reverse any of the few baby steps the sport was taking to prevent concussion.

I wonder if it's coming from the old boys club who don't want to relinquish their power and how the sport should be played?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Psychology is a big part of footy and the modern game relies on an ability to work through your emotions. As Goody often claims, you need to be able to 're-set' both in game and from week to week.

I think we'll take care of Carlton, but the main variable, if you like, is the psychological fall out from the QF.

It can go one of two ways. Trac said the players were obviously flat after the game, which was certainly mirrored by the supporter sentiment and my own emotions.

Now, if we use that hurt and flatness, the second chance that we have, it could be the re-set that we need to kick start our way to a 14th flag. Backs against the wall, have to go the toughest route now, like the Bulldogs in 2021, and missing Petty, Melksham, JVR and now Gus (possibly forever). But unlike the Bulldogs in 2021, who IMV we had the measure of that year, if we can get to a Granny against Collingwood, I reckon our guys would be supremely confident and want to make amends.

The alternative, of course, is we are rocked by Gus' likely retirement, we're a little bit banged up ourselves after a bruising QF and Carlton running on emotion like we were in 2018, with the crowd on their side, gets it over us.

IMO, we start the first quarter well, get a small lead and convert all our gettable opportunities, and we won't be beaten.

However, how much do you guys think the psychology of losing the QF and losing Gus will play into the result this week?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Gents, looking forward to the podcast.

Binman will rightfully point out how he predicted that a poor first quarter, and anything beyond a 3 goal jump would be hard to pull back, and others on Demonland will want an explanation and fix for our forward 50 connection, inefficiency and kicking inaccuracy. 
 

But I reckon you should iterate to all that there’s a bigger elephant in the room. Injuries across a season are the most objectively reliable indicator of success, for any team. Look at just our forward line……long stretches of unavailability for Tmac, Ben Brown, Bailey Fritsch, Harry Petty, and now Jake Melksham. No JVR this week to boot. Our injury stats this year (obviously compared to our flag competitors) simply look like making it a bridge too far. It’s a depressing perspective, I know, but won’t be ignored. It’s the most inconvenient truth in football. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


10 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

looking forward beyond 2023... with hibberd's impending retirement do you think petty will return from injury forward or back and what will that mean for the balance of the defensive 7 in 2024 and beyond?

I think we'll park this one for the post season. We have bigger fish to fry this week.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is speed of ball movement the missing key?

The last few games it's really stood out that we are kicking into a far more crowded forward line much more often than the opposition. It appears to be because the dynamic speed of ball movement we had at the beginning of the season has gone enabling opposition teams to get back and choke our forward 50. We seem to consequently have to kick from further out and on more acute angles or attempt snaps closer in under great pressure which has led to our goal kicking accuracy dropping off a cliff. 

It was clear at the beginning of the season that our speed of ball movement had improved significantly and after a summer of goal kicking practice and shots closer to goal our accuracy went through the roof. Do you agree this is a key issue and can we fix them in time. 

Just saw you've cut off questions while I was typing. Second week in a row I've been too late. 

Edited by Its Time for Another
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Cutting off the questions here. Got so much to talk about and a lot of prep getting all the questions into the right place. Lot of overlap of issues but we'll try to find a solution that the FD will listen to.

Yes Andy, do tell Goody and his team; if you want to win, Demonlad the podcast listen you must.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Its Time for Another said:

Is speed of ball movement the missing key?

The last few games it's really stood out that we are kicking into a far more crowded forward line much more often than the opposition. It appears to be because the dynamic speed of ball movement we had at the beginning of the season has gone enabling opposition teams to get back and choke our forward 50. We seem to consequently have to kick from further out and on more acute angles or attempt snaps closer in under great pressure which has led to our goal kicking accuracy dropping off a cliff. 

It was clear at the beginning of the season that our speed of ball movement had improved significantly and after a summer of goal kicking practice and shots closer to goal our accuracy went through the roof. Do you agree this is a key issue and can we fix them in time. 

Just saw you've cut off questions while I was typing. Second week in a row I've been too late. 

I'll squeeze it in with a similar question.

I have to have a cut off time in order to prep and make the questions flow.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Andy, George & Binman.

 

Left a few vmails, fair to say I’m on edge & have gone through a gambit of emotive states in the preceding days but I’ve somehow ultimately landed in a good, super confident space!

 

Lose this week and we become the FIRST team, since the year 2000 — To go out in straight sets in consecutive years. This is something that even a premiership will struggle to change, straighten, course-correct — which for me is another reason why this simply WONT happen. Melbourne FC are the best side in it, this isn’t a debate it’s fact. I’m convinced we will show that this week & for the masses worrying about selection this week, it actually matters little which way we go, as the 22nd player won’t win this game, topline talent/skill will, which is also why we’re the best team in it! Our defence will stand-up again, Max will dominate, Clarry will explode & Trac will do Trac things to lead us to victory. Personally I think Jordan will come in 

I wanted to write as yet again, like a big barramundi strutting through a muddy river, biting at every bit of lure and bait that’s bobbing about the place despite knowing full well what it represents, and that it’s there to entice and trap me, to make me click it, to sell clicks and more clicks.. but seriously, what a crock.

To see that absolute douchecanue Damian Barrett and Lloyd say on AFL.Com that “we’ve been figured out” — is just manifestly, grossly & abhorrently incorrect & incongruously false in every single way. We had an expected score of a 4 goal WIN, HOW does that have ANYTHING to do with being figured out??? Can anyone tell me why Barrett writes this verbal fecal-matter on a consistent basis?

How does player’s inability to convert correlate to being figured out? 

My query gents, is am I having some sort of reverse MFCSS and can’t see the writing painted in scarlet red on the white gyprocked wall? Am I delusional? I have no idea why I’m so fired up, but I need some leveller here… Are we the biggest flop and false-flag I’m the smart 23yrs? It cannot be, right? I’m right surely… I have no doubts we’re taking on the pies come GF day, I felt it right when Jack and May-blow-hard were jumper shoving & those invalid fools were chanting “Cooollingwooood” whilst our Gus laid lifeless in the middle of the G’ for a full 120s…

WE WILL HAVE OUR VENGEANCE!!! Right?

 

#itisgonnabeonglongweek & yet I still absolutely love it 🙌🙌🙌

 

Lordy, sorry Andy in the throes of typing I again missed your cut-off — must’ve been a big week of Q’s for a 3pm cut, no surprise there 😂😂😂

 

Have a great shows guys, as always. It’s gonna be a big week — can’t wait 🔴🔵

 

Edited by Nudge
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/8/2023 at 10:42 PM, sam6172 said:

I'll keep it short and ask the question that is really the only one that matters. Can we beat Carlton with the team we have?

Thanks guys.

I echo @sam6172 - feeling pretty flat still: the media have written us off and not many give us a chance with our decimated forward line. What tricks could or should be pulled out of the bag, to be get us over a Carlton side that will be feeling very confident? It feels like when we played the Hawks in 2018 - except this time, we are the Hawks 😭

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    BLOODY BLUES by Meggs

    The conclusion to Narrm’s home and away season was the inevitable let down by the bloody Blues  who meekly capitulated to the Bombers.   The 2024 season fixture handicapped the Demons chances from the get-go with Port Adelaide, Brisbane and Essendon advantaged with enough gimme games to ensure a tough road to the finals, especially after a slew of early season injuries to star players cost wins and percentage.     As we strode confidently through the gates of Prin

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    2024 Player Reviews: #5 Christian Petracca

    Melbourne’s most important player who dominated the first half of the season until his untimely injury in the Kings Birthday clash put an end to his season. At the time, he was on his way to many personal honours and the club in strong finals contention. When the season did end for Melbourne and Petracca was slowly recovering, he was engulfed in controversy about a possible move of clubs amid claims about his treatment by the club in the immediate aftermath of his injury. Date of Birth: 4 J

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 21

    2024 Player Reviews: #2 Jacob van Rooyen

    Strong marking youngster who plays forward and relief ruck, continued to make significant strides forward in his career path. The Demons have high hopes for van Rooyen as he stakes his claim to become an elite attacking forward. Date of Birth: 16 April 2003 Height: 193cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 41 Goals MFC 2024: 30 Career Total: 58 Brownlow Medal Votes: 1

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 26

    LIVE AND LET DIE by Meggs

    The Demons’ impressive late season charge to finals will most likely come unstuck this Saturday evening when the Bombers blow up the also-ran Blues in the Ikon Park double-header.   To mangle McCartney, what does it matter to ya? To have any chance to play next week Narrm has got a job to do and needs to do it well.  We’ve got to give the Pie sheilas hell, say live and let die! It’s Indigenous Round for this game and the chance to celebrate and engage with Aboriginal and Torres

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons

    2024 Player Reviews: #32 Tom Sparrow

    Had to shoulder more responsibility as the club’s injury concerns deepened but needs to step up more as he closes in on 100 games. Date of Birth: 31 May 2000 Height: 186cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 95 Goals MFC 2024: 6 Career Total: 34 Games CDFC: 1 Goals CDFL: 0

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 24

    2024 Player Reviews: #35 Harry Petty

    Date of Birth: 12 November 1999 Height: 197cm Games MFC 2024: 20 Career Total: 82 Goals MFC 2024: 9 Career Total: 28 Brownlow Medal Votes 3 Failed to fulfill the promise of his breakout six goal effort against the Tigers in 2023 and was generally disappointing as a key forward. It remains to be seen whether Simon Goodwin will persevere with him in attack or return him to the backline where he was an important cog in the club’s 2021 premiership success.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 18

    2024 Player Reviews: #22 Blake Howes

    After a bright start to the season, playing mostly in defence, Howes seemed to lose his way in midseason but fought back with some good performances at Casey and finished the year back at AFL level. One to watch in 2024. Date of Birth: 7 March 2003 Height: 191cm Games MFC 2024: 15 Career Total:  15 Goals MFC 2024: 0 Career Total:  0 Games CDFC 2024: 6 Goals CDFC 2024: 0

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    2024 Player Reviews: #33 Tom Fullarton

    Originally an NBL basketballer with the Brisbane Bullets, he moved across town in 2019 to the AFL Lions where he played 19 games before crossing to Melbourne where he was expected to fill a role as a back up ruckman/key forward. Unfortunately, didn’t quite get there although he did finish equal sixth in Casey’s best and fairest award. Date of Birth: 23 February 1999 Height: 198cm Games CDFC: 14 Goals CDFL: 13

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 8

    2024 Player Reviews: #10 Angus Brayshaw

    Sadly, had to wrap up a great career in midstream on the back of multiple concussions which culminated in the Maynard hit in the 2023 Qualifying Final. His loss to the club was inestimable over and above his on field talent given his character and leadership qualities, all of which have been sorely missed. Date of Birth: 9 January 1996 Height: 188cm Games MFC 2024: 0 Career Total: 167 Goals MFC 2024: 0 Career Total: 49

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 8
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...