Simon Goodwin Coaching Record

[binman 43,105]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

MaCrae has already proved he is better at making players perform and more tactically innovative than Buckley. And with the same list Buckley had got them from 17th to top 4 in no time. I don't think the Pies win the flag this year and expect us to dismantle them, but that won't change my opinion of MacRae.

Don't get me started on how poor a coach Buckley is though.  He inherited the best position imaginable (better than what Scott inherited at Geelong). Pies were the youngest ever premiers in 2010 (oldest player was 28).  Lost only 3 games in 2011 (one was the GF).  They should have contended for the next 6 years, but it went downhill and they underperformed 6 years in a row.  Maybe unlucky to lose 2018 GF by a kick, but on the flipside very lucky to coach a team that gets a dream draw and could easily have finished outside the top 4 if they had to play Geelong in Geelong and we got to play Geelong only at the G!  You could also argue he was lucky they made the GF in 2018 and can probably thank a very ordinary 7ft beanpole who fluked about 10 marks in 15 minutes in a prelim.  He was not a good coach by any measure considering the list he inherited and the support and resources that club has.

 

You've convinced me. Mcrae def a better coach than Buckley.

Never liked Buckley. Dislike him even more as a footy media type.

[Neil Crompton 5,574]

I think it’s little wonder that the “soccer” coaches are called managers, not coaches. Because that’s what they do - manage. From what I can gather, AFL coaches are really not coaches as they were in say the Norm Smith era, they are now managers. They have to manage the gaggle of assistant coaches (who really do the direct coaching of the players), the support staff as well as the players.  And in our case, we have someone (Richo) overseeing Goody and the whole process. (Smithy would have loved that!).

The point I’m leading to is that the coach doesn’t win a club a premiership,, he is simply one (important) cog helping to manage the collective parts making up the whole. Therefore to say that one modern era coach is better than another because they win a premiership is, I believe, no longer an accurate statement. What you can say is that in 2021, the MFC was the best Club as a whole, not that Goody necessarily was a better coach than Bevo.

[Macca 16,983]

@Neil Crompton

I reckon Smith was a great manager of men so the coach being more like a manager in our sport probably goes back a long way

Further to the comparisons ...

Interesting stat from the Northey era ... over a 4 year period ('87 to '90) we defeated the Hawthorn powerhouse 5 times

And they had the best line up of players I've ever seen ... super strong in all areas of the field

Great talent and top level coaching wins big in any sport ... but what is more important? 

Can great talent win without top level coaching?  Possibly and maybe even probably

Can top level coaching win big with an average list?  I'd so no but it may have happened

[rufus 1,162]

I think the coach is the most important person at an AFL club and by some margin. Without Clarkson those Hawks sides would not have achieved close to what they did. Same goes for Richmond. Both were able to get full buy in...players prepared to sacrifice a bit of their own potential glory for the good of team (which ironically ends up enhancing the reputation of the individuals anyway).

For Goodwin to have got that buy in during 2021 is something I will forever be grateful for and in awe of. We had everyone bought in all the way down to getting more physicality from our less physical players like Fritsch.

Hopefully Goodwin can conjure that up again with this group at some point between now and when Oliver and Gawn are too old to be the cream that can carry us over the top. We are not quite there at this stage.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,400]

4 hours ago, binman said:

Deep man.

You think mcrae is a better coach than Buckley. Got it.

How will you assess him if the pies don't win the flag this year, given every person and their dog think it is pies and then daylight and they are a lock for top spot with 5 games to go? On him or the players?

Ps - I guess circle work is supposed to be a clever retort of some sort? But I've got zero idea what it refers to, so if it is some sort of attempt at a clever sledge, a heads up, it hasn't landed.

My comment of Macrae > Buckley was in response to your comment that the impact of coaches is overrated. Macrae is the most recent example of how much the right coach can have on a team. 
With regards to how I will assess him, that for me will be after his coaching tenure is up. I still believe we can win the flag this year. As we know success in our game only has one true measure and that is winning the premiership. Before the Lions game, Fagan was interviewed (can’t remember if it was tv or radio) and said words to the effect of credit should be given to teams that consistently play finals regardless of winning the premiership or not due to the toughness of the competition. I get what he was saying, but as we know there are no passengers when it comes to the top job.

As for my comment of circle work, no it wasn’t an attempt of a clever sledge or has some cryptic meaning. I wrote it because the discussion you and I have with regards to Ben Brown go around in circles. 
I make a comment, you reply with a statement, I reply with a question, you don’t respond, I make comment to someone else, you respond with your original comment but without answering my question….

And tonight we learn BBB has been omitted, so what are to make of this? Was he to be rested this week regardless of form to keep him cherry ripe for finals? 

 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,859]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:56 AM, Demons11 said:

We have had great list over different periods and never won a flag.  Goody has won us a flag and kept us in the top 4 for 3 years now which is a fantastic effort.  Premierships are extremely difficult to win and just because we think our list is better than everyone else’s this is not the reality in an extremely even competition. 

A cliche that doesn't stand-up to scrutiny. Assuming a club doesn't shoot itself in the foot, they can be won reasonably frequently. Most, (but not all admittedly), don't win them frequently due to, in the main, ineptitude.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

21 hours ago, Macca said:

But Northey & Daniher got the maximum out of the teams they coached ... add 4 or 5 top players to those era's and we would have tasted ultimate success in those days, in my view

Strong coaches but I disagree that they got the absolute maximum out of their lists.

Strawbs O'Dwyer was rubbed out in the Prelim in 1988.  He should have been rubbed out the previously week, caught wonderfully on the replay.  Swooper put 6' 0"  David Williams at FF. He, tallest on the FF line, was 3" shorter than Ayres, the shortest HFC on the FB line.  Too short up  forward!  I have been stopping people in the street and telling them this but I see that Wikipedia says he was HFF and Wight was FF.  I wait with interest and trepidation to be corrected.

This "Little Bigman" theory as the paper called it in the early 70's did not work and has its echo in Melksham playing as the second tall forward.  This didn't seem to work at the end of last year when I suggested to some derision that Mitch Brown just for his size.   Could be a podcast topic.

The 2003 list was much the same as 2002 but crashed.  Daniher had his non-performing favourites (e.g. Yze post 2002)  and non-favourites (e.g. Lamb),  and gave the dead horse a tickle-up.  The President, Szondy, noted this at the time but recanted within the week.

  

11 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The issue during the Daniher years was unfortunately we could never recruit a star player and that was purely due to having no money and [censored] poor facilities etc. In fact, we could barely recruit solid players consistently. 

Always felt had we been able to recruit a star player or two we could have potentially snagged a flag.

Losing Jeff Farmer put us back imo. 

We lost Steven Powell and Farmer (gammy hammy) because the club wanted to put them on one year contracts.  Wilson went.  G. Healy left.  We had the stars but they went.  Now I think depth is unimportant, considering the number of fringe players who left and got a premiership medal. It is the Dusty's, Petracca's, Bont's that matter.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

Goodwin has become a good coach overall.  Loved that he said that they had Grundy working on his leads, at Casey.  Love a solution for a problem.

Interesting that he was second choice for understudy after Dew?? said no.

[Macca 16,983]

2 hours ago, redandbluemakepurple said:

Strong coaches but I disagree that they got the absolute maximum out of their lists.

Strawbs O'Dwyer was rubbed out in the Prelim in 1988.  He should have been rubbed out the previously week, caught wonderfully on the replay.  Swooper put 6' 0"  David Williams at FF. He, tallest on the FF line, was 3" shorter than Ayres, the shortest HFC on the FB line.  Too short up  forward!  I have been stopping people in the street and telling them this but I see that Wikipedia says he was HFF and Wight was FF.  I wait with interest and trepidation to be corrected.

This "Little Bigman" theory as the paper called it in the early 70's did not work and has its echo in Melksham playing as the second tall forward.  This didn't seem to work at the end of last year when I suggested to some derision that Mitch Brown just for his size.   Could be a podcast topic.

The 2003 list was much the same as 2002 but crashed.  Daniher had his non-performing favourites (e.g. Yze post 2002)  and non-favourites (e.g. Lamb),  and gave the dead horse a tickle-up.  The President, Szondy, noted this at the time but recanted within the week.

  

We lost Steven Powell and Farmer (gammy hammy) because the club wanted to put them on one year contracts.  Wilson went.  G. Healy left.  We had the stars but they went.  Now I think depth is unimportant, considering the number of fringe players who left and got a premiership medal. It is the Dusty's, Petracca's, Bont's that matter.

We were always 5 or 6 good players short of premiership standard during the Northey & Daniher era's so to play in so many finals series was quite an achievement

We won our fair share of finals during both era's but made it to 2 GF's with a 14 & 8 and 13 & 9 records.  A remarkable effort really

Our midfields were never strong and the backlines were iffy

We punched above our weight

Go back and have a look at the Hawthorn lineup of the 80's and the Lions & Bombers line-ups in the 2000's

Miles better talent wise.  Streets ahead in fact

Now with the current team our only real weakness is in the forward line ... but that can be rectified with a medium sized forward line (Petracca, Melksham, Fritsch) with Kozzie & Chandler buzzing about along with 1 of the 2 talls firing (one can do the bollocking work/decoy work)

We'll need to hit up the forwards and the forwards will need to create separation but again, that's entirely possible

Our backline & midfield is supreme

And by the way, we had to play David Williams as a lead up forward as we didn't have anyone better ... as it was, he did very well, all things considered

But Williams at FF wasn't the issue anyway ... the Hawks were just a superior outfit when it counted

As were a few other teams during those 2 era's

Edited July 27, 2023 by Macca

[old55 23,613]

7 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

ATM he's had 2 good years & 4 poor years.

2022 was a disaster & we got no explanation from the Club.

Gawn stated that 6 players went into the finals injured. This largely due to the BT playing guys who were out of form or carrying niggles despite any number of potential replacements killing it at Casey.

Don't win the flag = Disaster 

OK

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

7 hours ago, Macca said:

Another way to size things up would be to compare the best 23 from the 3 era's (Northey, Daniher & Goodwin)

Not forgetting that the lists were set up in some ways by Barassi, Balme & Roos

A task for @WERRIDEE who would no doubt relish such an undertaking

I've answered the call.

Best team under Northey era

B: Yeats, Hughes, Johnson

HB: B.Lovett, Wight, S.Febey

C: Stretch, Wilson, Flower

HF: Lovell, Spalding, Lyon

F: Jackovich, Bennett, R.Jackson

FOLL: Stynes, T.Viney, Greg.Healy

IC: Obst, Grinter, O'Dwyer, Rohde

[Macca 16,983]

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

I've answered the call.

Best team under Northey era

B: Yeats, Hughes, Johnson

HB: B.Lovett, Wight, S.Febey

C: Stretch, Wilson, Flower

HF: Lovell, Spalding, Lyon

F: Jackovich, Bennett, R.Jackson

FOLL: Stynes, T.Viney, Greg.Healy

IC: Obst, Grinter, O'Dwyer, Rohde

Thanks Werridee, you've done well

That's quite a good team and because we have fond memories of all the players you've listed, it's hard to do critical analysis

All the players when playing at their best, were all very good

But where we fell down was when we were up against other teams of similar ilk (you win some, you lose some) and then when up against teams who at their best, were superior

For instance, in '87, Carlton was a tremendous team as were the Hawks

In '88 we managed to get past teams around our mark but the Hawks were waiting for us in the GF

Cats & Hawks were both really good in '89 and it all came together for the Pies in 1990

Hawks again (and the Eagles) were better teams in '91

So we were a very good team but not quite good enough

But extremely well coached

So ... if we insert May, Lever, Petracca, Oliver and Kozzie into that team, the team suddenly can take on all comers

Who goes out, Werridee?  haha

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

Best team in the Daniher era.

B: Whelan, Shanahan, Ward

HB: Brown, Ingerson, Bizzell

C: Tingay, Woewodin, M.Febey

HF: Robertson, Schwarz, Yze

F: Farmer, Neitz, Green

FOLL: White, Leoncelli, J.McDonald

IC: Johnstone, Davey, Bruce, Rigoni 

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

Best team in the Goodwin era

B: Jetta, May, Lever

HB: Salem, Petty, Hibberd

C: Langdon, Jones, Brayshaw

HF: Petracca, T.McDonald, Neal-Bullen

F: Pickett, Brown, Fritsch

FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, J.Viney

IC: Vince, Harmes, Rivers, Lewis 

[Macca 16,983]

Just now, WERRIDEE said:

Best team in the Daniher era.

B: Whelan, Shanahan, Ward

HB: Brown, Ingerson, Bizzell

C: Tingay, Woewodin, M.Febey

HF: Robertson, Schwarz, Yze

F: Farmer, Neitz, Green

FOLL: White, Leoncelli, J.McDonald

IC: Johnstone, Davey, Bruce, Rigoni 

Again, a very good team but premiership worthy?  Can't see it and history tells us that we never really were a serious challenger for the flag

So the Reverend did about as well as anyone could have given the lack of A & B+ talent

The backline just wasn't anywhere near strong enough but as individuals, they ranged from solid to reasonably good to quite good

Compare that backline to our current backline ... poles apart

Midfield compared to our current 7 rotated midfielders falls short too.  But the Daniher led midfield wasn't too shabby

I'd have the forward line though .... easily better than our current set-up

Put that forward line into our current team and I'm not sure we'd lose many games at all

Talent is the key but before you have that talent you need a great recruiting team ... and that's what we have now

So the future under Goodwin looks rosy. 

I like that we may be going after another possible future star in Harley Reid ... it tells the football world that we are not going to sit back.  We aim to get better

 

[Macca 16,983]

4 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Best team in the Goodwin era

B: Jetta, May, Lever

HB: Salem, Petty, Hibberd

C: Langdon, Jones, Brayshaw

HF: Petracca, T.McDonald, Neal-Bullen

F: Pickett, Brown, Fritsch

FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, J.Viney

IC: Vince, Harmes, Rivers, Lewis 

Now there's a great team ... not so strong in the forward line but the forward line's collective best was reasonably good to quite good (when comparing to great forward lines that we've seen across all the teams)

You've had to leave some good players out too ... Sparrow, Jordon, Bowey, Hunt, Grundy, Hunter etc etc but the exercise illustrates the point that we've built from the backline & midfield with the current outfit

But if one of JVR or Jefferson turns up trumps and we recruit a top quality KPF this off-season, we're going to be in contention for quite some time

Replacing May down the track is the question ... but there's nothing stopping us getting a May type in the same way we acquired May himself (was it pick 5?)

[whatwhat say what 22,783]

no glenn lovett at all? hm...

matt febey in daniher's best team? hm...

no sean charles?

[He de mon 937]

If you are going to pick a "best team" of a coaches era, you need to be a bit more honest

Both coaches did not have all these players at his disposal at any given time of their tenure.

For instance Lewis and Vince had retired by the time Brown, Langdon, Rivers and Kozzie had debuted with us.

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,400]

7 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Best team in the Goodwin era

B: Jetta, May, Lever

HB: Salem, Petty, Hibberd

C: Langdon, Jones, Brayshaw

HF: Petracca, T.McDonald, Neal-Bullen

F: Pickett, Brown, Fritsch

FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, J.Viney

IC: Vince, Harmes, Rivers, Lewis 

Best team in the Goodwin era won the premiership.

[Roost it far 8,298]

9 hours ago, Macca said:

We were always 5 or 6 good players short of premiership standard during the Northey & Daniher era's so to play in so many finals series was quite an achievement

We won our fair share of finals during both era's but made it to 2 GF's with a 14 & 8 and 13 & 9 records.  A remarkable effort really

Our midfields were never strong and the backlines were iffy

We punched above our weight

Go back and have a look at the Hawthorn lineup of the 80's and the Lions & Bombers line-ups in the 2000's

Miles better talent wise.  Streets ahead in fact

Now with the current team our only real weakness is in the forward line ... but that can be rectified with a medium sized forward line (Petracca, Melksham, Fritsch) with Kozzie & Chandler buzzing about along with 1 of the 2 talls firing (one can do the bollocking work/decoy work)

We'll need to hit up the forwards and the forwards will need to create separation but again, that's entirely possible

Our backline & midfield is supreme

And by the way, we had to play David Williams as a lead up forward as we didn't have anyone better ... as it was, he did very well, all things considered

But Williams at FF wasn't the issue anyway ... the Hawks were just a superior outfit when it counted

As were a few other teams during those 2 era's

My memory says we were closer than that. We struggled to keep our best 22 on the park. Schwarz, Yze, Lyon, Charles, Tingay, GLovett all lost crucial games in their careers. We were in it several times but you need the ounce of luck which we never had.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,400]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:45 PM, binman said:

Yes Freo have fallen in a hole since they beat us, but were travelling pretty well at that point (David King famously predicted they would take our spot in the top 4 after they beat us - peanut).

And the Giants, who are currently seventh only 2 games behind us, have not lost a game since beating us, including overcoming a three goal deficit at three quarter time and wining by 14 points against the Crows at Adelaide Oval the week before the Crows pushed us right to the line. No team will beat GWS easily or the rest of this season.

You had a better read on them than me, I had the Dogs doing a number on them today.

[SFebes 4,884]

15 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

You had a better read on them than me, I had the Dogs doing a number on them today.

It was pretty easy to read BA, look at their form line and who they've beaten in the last 7 odd weeks.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,400]

10 minutes ago, SFebes said:

It was pretty easy to read BA, look at their form line and who they've beaten in the last 7 odd weeks.

So you tipped them? The Dogs have been playing some good footy also but not always getting the wins.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,400]

21 minutes ago, SFebes said:

It was pretty easy to read BA, look at their form line and who they've beaten in the last 7 odd weeks.

Out of interest how many have you tipped this week? I’m on 1, the Swans. Just about everyone I know, or comments I’ve read on here or social media the most I’ve seen tipped so far is 2. Some tipped the Crows and the Swans. That also includes the so called experts on tripple M and SEN pages. If you tipped them that’s an awesome get in footy tipping comps. I see Ballarat being similar to the NT for us, Canberra for GWS and Bellerive Oval for the Hawks.

[BoomerTJ 15]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:24 AM, Jaded No More said:

But the Pies are going to win the flag so who even cares

Stats say otherwise. Whilst Pies will very likely be minor premiers, between 1994 and 2022 only ten minor premiers have gone on to win the premiership.