Garry Lyon analysis

[Macca 17,032]

19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I dont blame the players at all in this regard. I agree is absolutely a coaching/gameplan issue.

You could chop and change in/out whoever in the front half and it wont make one iota of difference if we keep playing that style.

It is THE dumbest front half footy going around.

 

Players are at fault as well but less so

Thinking for themselves is an option

[Macca 17,032]

@beelzebub

An example of a player thinking for himself is our best forward - Fritsch

He's often goal hungry and often doesn't palm it off ... but when he kicks the goal we don't mind

When he misses?

But do you palm it off to those who have the yips in front of goal? 

And he still does it so does the coaching mind that he is goal-hungry?

[Macca 17,032]

On a brighter note we still sit 4th and if we beat the Saints and the Pies win this weekend, there's an excellent chance that we'll be effectively 2 games clear in 4th spot (percentage factored in)

Need the Dons to win to be assured of that buffer

So it's not all doom & gloom but we need to start winning

[beelzebub 23,383]

I really dont think it's quite all of our own doing in the sense that there ARE two teams out there and two Coaches battling wits.  Our intent , and for quite some time now has been to enter the forward 50 as deep as can lobbing the ball to a contest and then pressing that contest with the idea of oppornistic extraction  resulting in goals.

Essentially it is hoped to put maximum pressure on the opponents defence.  If they fumble  or fail to clear  we , in theory, can score. This worked OK whilst oppositions weren't geared to this.  Back in 21 etc   We didint kick to the pockets nearly as much . We did try to put the ball closer to the square...and in front.  We played the wings a bit tighter in.  But since our 'glorious' Sept   our game has been studied, disected and in many areas countered.  Knowing we WILL bomb away oppositions now force that contest wider.. Knowing our adversion most of the time to the corridor oppositions have forced our wing play..wider... As a result the delivery starts wider and remains wider..  Opposition defenders almost know what we'll do before we do...it's become that predictable.

What irks me no end is if oppositions want to force our little pack formations out to the pockets theres an obvious upside....there's invariable space opening up behind it..closer to the corridor...about 30-40 out or thereabouts..Ironically..excatly where you want to be. But we seldom have anyone there and when there is...more often than not burnt. We do it sometimes but it looks very un-natural

This sort of awareness and craft CAN be taught, can be practiced.  If we dont change our way(s)  we're wasting the efforts of the rest of our players....   we're wasting our time

[rjay 25,088]

24 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

But since our 'glorious' Sept   our game has been studied, disected and in many areas countered. 

Also a big factor is not having a fit Brown or Tommy Mac...

[beelzebub 23,383]

14 minutes ago, rjay said:

Also a big factor is not having a fit Brown or Tommy Mac...

Very much..  Tmac possibly more than Benny though ideally they play a different role.  Tom very instrumental in angling the ball in..  We miss that

[Adam The God 30,407]

20 hours ago, demon3165 said:

People are missing the point, having McVee or Bowey forward is not going to help, it's the game-plan going into the forward line, it's that simple, they never change angles...

If you can't hit difficult kicks, you're hardly going to change the angle. And you shouldn't. You should play the percentages. This is why getting better users forward of centre has merit.

[demon3165 2,804]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

If you can't hit difficult kicks, you're hardly going to change the angle. And you shouldn't. You should play the percentages. This is why getting better users forward of centre has merit.

Lmfao suggest you read your reply...lmfao

[Adam The God 30,407]

I give up with you, East Bentleigh. 

[JV7 2,354]

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Have got no doubt we will be in most games with our current style, but we sure aint winning finals like this.. 

We keep doubling down on this style of game and the players just need to fluff a few moments, every game in the balance....We are actually way to good to play in this fashion. We are just keeping average teams within striking distance.

We get very few quality entries playing this current style and it seems to me the players are not having much fun, not many backslaps or smiles going on out there.

We don't have to go away from being a good contested team, but we do actually need to stop trying to set up for repeat forward stoppages if there is no quality to them.  Better to win the ball back through middle of the ground and actually hurt the opposition. Currently imo we are playing THE most negative game of all the AFL teams currently.  Our coach is ridiculously stubborn.  There is a complete lack of trust in our team  with our game plan. The players are implementing what Goody wants, apart from the inaccurate kicking. They would be losing faith that he has the actual gameplan that lets them play like a champion team. Everything is so restrictive atm, there is no freedom in the way we are playing the game.

It is like we don't actually enjoy the regular season grind, we should be embracing pressure with  a list this good, yet we seem terrified when the games are in the balance. The mindset of the coach needs to change, or we are just going to fluff a few moments to blow our season playing a style that keeps every team in it up to their eyeballs.

Agreed that the players look as if they are playing scared & safe, not brave enough to take on the risky option for the fear of turning the footy over. We saw this throughout last season & it seems as though the coaches went to task in the office season to be more attacking & we saw that throughput the first part of this year however as I mentioned I feel they thought we were too easy to move the ball against & have reverted back to the old method we are seeing now... It worked on KB the problem & to be honest this style of a grind is more suitable to finals footy than free flowing (for the past few years anyway, Collingwood may be bucking the trend).

I'm not saying I agree with how we are playing as I personally think we are shot this year especially with Fritsch missing for an extended period but I feel we sure trying to tinker with a few things to give us the best shot at a run towards the back end of the year but my view is injuries & unsettledness will catch us.

[demon3165 2,804]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I give up with you, East Bentleigh. 

That's all you can say...lmfao I think you even realise what you wrote, try again.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

48 minutes ago, JV7 said:

Agreed that the players look as if they are playing scared & safe, not brave enough to take on the risky option for the fear of turning the footy over. We saw this throughout last season & it seems as though the coaches went to task in the office season to be more attacking & we saw that throughput the first part of this year however as I mentioned I feel they thought we were too easy to move the ball against & have reverted back to the old method we are seeing now... It worked on KB the problem & to be honest this style of a grind is more suitable to finals footy than free flowing (for the past few years anyway, Collingwood may be bucking the trend).

I'm not saying I agree with how we are playing as I personally think we are shot this year especially with Fritsch missing for an extended period but I feel we sure trying to tinker with a few things to give us the best shot at a run towards the back end of the year but my view is injuries & unsettledness will catch us.

Totally agree. I think the problem is every time Goodwin tinkers with our game it has had varied results.

2019 i believe was when he tried to make wholesale changes to our game and we forgot the basics. We do it earlier in the season and look good but it backfires a few times and we revert to safe and slow/wide. 

Scares me during his entire tenure we are going to revert to this gamestyle time and time again regardless of what assistants we have.  Selection and gamestyle will kill us before injuries imo...we got the players.

[demon3165 2,804]

16 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is spot on.

 

Been saying that since last year and got howled down, hope Goody was watching and also hoped AF watched it as well.

Edited July 6, 2023 by demon3165

[JV7 2,354]

8 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Totally agree. I think the problem is every time Goodwin tinkers with our game it has had varied results.

2019 i believe was when he tried to make wholesale changes to our game and we forgot the basics. We do it earlier in the season and look good but it backfires a few times and we revert to safe and slow/wide. 

Scares me during his entire tenure we are going to revert to this gamestyle time and time again regardless of what assistants we have.  Selection and gamestyle will kill us before injuries imo...we got the players.

Yep, I've mentioned here in other topics... We are completely wasting an elite list who should be in their prime. Talks of a dynasty were a little premature but also correct... With the list we should be playing in Prelim, Grand Finals & winning them. 

[Supreme_Demon 3,899]

Garry Lyon hit the nail on the head with his analysis.

Really spot on with what he identified. I am actually glad that Garry Lyon did it!

Hopefully this is addressed during match review this week between the Demons coaching staff and players.

I also hope they look to possibly play Bowey or even Salem half forward to assist with our connection into the forward line.

 

[Macca 17,032]

44 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Garry Lyon hit the nail on the head with his analysis.

Really spot on with what he identified. I am actually glad that Garry Lyon did it!

Hopefully this is addressed during match review this week between the Demons coaching staff and players.

I also hope they look to possibly play Bowey or even Salem half forward to assist with our connection into the forward line.

It would be robbing Peter to pay Paul but the way we enter the forward line needs hard-nuts front & centre

Those who relish contact and don't mind getting knocked about (like Viney & Brayshaw)

To be honest, apart from a lack of real talent in the forward line we need an injection of real vigour up forward

Edited July 6, 2023 by Macca

[Macca 17,032]

4 hours ago, rjay said:

There is no answer personnel wise in the short term so how do we structure a winning plan?

Take risks when entering the forward line and take risks from half-back (through the corridor)

Another loss gets us closer to not being a true contender so what have we got to lose?

Even more so without Fritsch because with our current non-productive style, he's been our only decent forward

The greatest risk is not taking a risk. Risk-free football is actually risky

What lives in our memory is have much dare we showed in 2021

Where has that gone?

[bing181 9,328]

1 hour ago, JV7 said:

 With the list we should be playing in Prelim, Grand Finals & winning them. 

Another Demonland myth. 
 

[bing181 9,328]

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I dont blame the players at all in this regard.

Not what Petracca said. “It’s all on us” or words to that effect. 

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

7 hours ago, Macca said:

I still have a strong hope for the rest of the season despite our shortcomings

We win the ball enough and our midfield & defence is strong and classy

But we fall down up forward both with delivery to the forward line (method) and also with regards to how our forwards go about it

The fix is not that hard

For instance, (despite the wet weather last Sunday) if we had attempted to pass the ball into the forward line with most of our 73 forward line entries, then we would have given ourselves numerous chances to take marks or win free kicks and therefore, have as a result any number of set shots at goal

Of course, those would-be passes might not have all ended up with positive outcomes but that's the chance you take

Anf it's imperative that our forwards play in front with the front & centre smalls playing their part

The above is coached and practised in the lower leagues at suburban level and is standard practice

What we are currently doing with regards to our forward entries is quite farcical and lazy.  Just doesn't make sense

I think we all have high hopes for the rest of the season, and this heartbeat is a major element of being a current Dees' fan, just like to eons beforehand.  In terms of likelihood, it is being shaped otherwise; a malleable mass led to fail, most likely. We are consequently disheartened and disappointed - from the first signs that we know are endemic to the last bounce of the season - it is a great tragedy yet it is capable of remediation and an increase in dignity. Start 'prepping for the next season - this time anew in all regards. Maybe the early bird will catch the worm or at least a confused slug wallowing in a puddle - because that would be a step forward! 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Deemania since 56

[Roost it far 8,587]

We have the best defence in the league, the best contested team in the league, it just makes no sense not turning inside, playing on and getting it forward quickly, preferably to a leading target.  It shouldn't matter if it comes back out as we're so good defensively. Not only that it'll give our smalls so much more room to work in if 30 odd players aren't camped out in there. I can't help but think this is about to happen. I reckon the poor conditions our last 2 games have been played in have really jammed our groove. I'm going on Saturday as I'm fascinated to watch us on a dry track. I think we might just explode into action. Really wish Oliver was playing but them's the breaks. 

[rjay 25,088]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Take risks when entering the forward line and take risks from half-back (through the corridor)

Another loss gets us closer to not being a true contender so what have we got to lose?

Even more so without Fritsch because with our current non-productive style, he's been our only decent forward

The greatest risk is not taking a risk. Risk-free football is actually risky

What lives in our memory is have much dare we showed in 2021

Where has that gone?

Even that part of the game in Brisbane early this year after the outage.

We came on and threw everything at it and nearly got the win.

I would like to see us move away from the current conservative game.

It's going to be an interesting watch over the rest of this season.

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Not what Petracca said. “It’s all on us” or words to that effect. 

I get that....but if they've been sold a pup they'll be chasing their tails...   I cant blame them for that.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is spot on.

 

Hope the penny is dropping and they aren't under the illusion that it's merely an accuracy issue.

If so we're toast and we'll just keep seeing more of the same entries to low percentage areas with the same horrid results where we end up kicking double or triple the amount of points to goals.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[SFebes 4,884]

I see the team practiced shots around poles etc for an extra hour before training the other day....but what I'm wondering is if they practiced leading at the ball kicker and forward entries that will equate to those shots? All well and good to practice shots at goal but still doesn't fix the problem with connection and delivery.......