POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS

[beelzebub 23,383]

36 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Thanks TU. Without the time to research this in depth, I would argue we would have a few missed ‘gimmies’ most games, leaving the shallow and wide shots the more considerable culprit.

I would also argue against this growing point from a few that these are ‘reentries’ due to our high press.

That is what you get with a high press. That is by design.

Its a feature, not a bug. 

If we can’t maximise it and kick more than 70 points, we shouldn’t play it and we should sit back more and develop chains off half back.

So ‘reentries’ is another excuse for our poor connection and delivery into the forward line.

Excellent observations..

You also have to question the waste of energy.  It's not efficient..   its footy's version of scattergun. Just blaze away..push push push ....and hope.

The problem with this approach is you need a hell of a lot of skills in your bag to be able to pounce on that supposed deliberate loose ( forced ) ball.

There's no intent to control the ball.. it controlling the space and expecting the ball to follow suit.

This is quite simply ridiculous.  A team that CAN control possession will beat you every time ( all other things equal )

Edited July 3, 2023 by beelzebub

[Jaded No More 68,974]

12 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

I’m hearing Fritch is out for 6-8!weeks, having surgery today. 

Expected this news to be honest 

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

28 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

How many goals have we scored in the last 13 or so games where a forward has led towards the kicker and marked out in front.

I am struggling to think of too many.

We make it so hard for ourselves.

Remember the Cats of 2021

Slow ball movement and over use to keep their possession / control of game going.

We were somewhat of a variation of that in 2022.... 

Difference is the Cats recognised their issues and changed things up.  Went on to win the cup.

We've gone for more of the same but just added an extra ruck (that has added nothing other than an assist to Max) and basically brought more of the same on transition in 2023.  Swapped Jordan out for his doppelganger Hunter.

Still playing the long game around the wings off HB with over use of HB.  That method and over use of HB sometimes works in the dry if you win the contest battle and spread from there effectively.  Certainly nb for us at times with Clarry in there.  Not so good in wet or greasy conditions, especially without Clarry.

The best teams are transitioning off HB alot faster and more efficient coming inside than we are, often through the corridor.  And most play wet weather footy somewhat differently.

In 2021 we were a surge team, in some aspects we had a few similar traits to the Tigers during their years of success but without so many smalls up front.

The 2022 / 23 Demons are a long way from that, more resembling the bogged down 2021 Cats imho.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[jnrmac 20,185]

Here's a quote from Robbo  - who I don't normally rate - but I think he is on the money here:

Melbourne plays density football. It’s a strong contest and combative team. They don’t play so-called easy football with spares everywhere. It’s labour intensive, man v man, which means their football is tough and grinding.

Our game style is very taxing. We make it hard on ourselves. Its an arm wrestle and tries to wear down the other teams. SG has shown no inclination to change that except for the finals series in 2021.

So maybe that is his go. Get to finals and 'flick the switch' as it were.

I can see why that makes some sense - get to finals - but there is a lot wrong with that if that in fact is the case. And it isn't an easy thing to change style late in the piece.

My observation is that during pre-season and the early part of this season we were playing a lot more daring football and kicking angles into the corridor. Hence our accuracy at goal as many of the shots were front and centre. But as we have seen in the past 5 weeks it has shifted dramatically to old style of kick along the boundary and bomb the ball into our fwd line. 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by jnrmac

[binman 43,762]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Thanks TU. Without the time to research this in depth, I would argue we would have a few missed ‘gimmies’ most games, leaving the shallow and wide shots the more considerable culprit.

I would also argue against this growing point from a few that these are ‘reentries’ due to our high press.

That is what you get with a high press. That is by design.

Its a feature, not a bug. 

If we can’t maximise it and kick more than 70 points, we shouldn’t play it and we should sit back more and develop chains off half back.

So ‘reentries’ is another excuse for our poor connection and delivery into the forward line.

A serous question rpfc.

Do you think the way we play will change as we approach the finals, as it did in 2021 and 2022, with our scores going up and the game style being more expansive and looking like rounds 1-6 this year?

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

11 hours ago, binman said:

Sure

In dry conditions.

And besides 77 inside 50s is very misleading.

I'm guessing half of them were reentries. Meaning the ball was coming back into a forward line with 30 odd players in there.

No space at all. No leading lanes. All but impossible to take a contested mark. Wet. Slippery. Chaos. 

We basically didnt score on transition. In part because the ball was in our forward half most of the time. Meaning there was almost always congestion ahead of the ball. And no overlap run meant no free players ahead of the ball. 

And again, its worth pointing out the giants scores to inside 50 efficiency was significantly worse than ours -  26% to our 36%. 

Unfortunately their goals to inside 50 ratio was a hell of a lot better than ours.

We kick straight. We win.

Yet we won the centre clearances 15-2, 6-6-6 ahead of them and we made virtually nothing of those entries either.

Our system is pretty dysfunctional atm and it is not just due to inaccuracy......Our gamestyle leads to not very good looks at goal.  Exhausting style to watch let alone play i would imagine!  The players are doing what the coach is telling them to do set up for repeat stoppages.  

Also i believe that Goodwin has got the selections massively wrong over last few weeks and it is hurting us immensely.

We were doing ok with Petty as a defensive forward that was starting to find to impose himself and come up the ground as a marking option.  In the last few weeks Stewart then Haynes destroyed us.  Both were allowed to do as they please.

It is some strange coaching, dropping Tomlinson then shifting the magnets with Petty who was really showing something as a forward, who actually helped block for JVR.  With Petty and JVR combo we at least compete in the air and on the ground.  We also lock down their best interceptor, which we 100% need because we choose to dump kick all day into F50.

[binman 43,762]

29 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Here's a quote from Robbo  - who I don't normally rate - but I think he is on the money here:

Melbourne plays density football. It’s a strong contest and combative team. They don’t play so-called easy football with spares everywhere. It’s labour intensive, man v man, which means their football is tough and grinding.

Our game style is very taxing. We make it hard on ourselves. Its an arm wrestle and tries to wear down the other teams. SG has shown no inclination to change that except for the finals series in 2021.

So maybe that is his go. Get to finals and 'flick the switch' as it were.

I can see why that makes some sense - get to finals - but there is a lot wrong with that if that in fact is the case. And it isn't an easy thing to change style late in the piece.

My observation is that during pre-season and the early part of this season we were playing a lot more daring football and kicking angles into the corridor. Hence our accuracy at goal as many of the shots were front and centre. But as we have seen in the past 5 weeks it has shifted dramatically to old style of kick along the boundary and bomb the ball into our fwd line. 

 

 Spot on jnr.

I didn't see this post before making my previous one.

'My observation is that during pre-season and the early part of this season we were playing a lot more daring football and kicking angles into the corridor. Hence our accuracy at goal as many of the shots were front and centre. But as we have seen in the past 5 weeks it has shifted dramatically to old style of kick along the boundary and bomb the ball into our fwd line.'

This is exactly right.

In a nutshell, it is my contention that in the middle of the season they don't have the run in the legs to implement the model you describe we employed in the first third of this season (and in the first halves against the pies and lions ladt season,and the back end of 2021).

But will employ again if we can get the run in our legs back. 

The interesting question is whether goody should modify the model now to mitigate the core elements of the game plan that make brutal and blunt now (forward half pressure, contest, reentries etx etc). Essentially adopt a new, or at least modified sytem.

Or if doing so risks players not instinctively understanding the system and the role they play in it come finals.

Goody has clearly gone with the latter philosophy (though had def made some adjustments this season in this mid year phase eg reinforcing the defensive focus, less rusky kick etc).

And one assumes that is because it will increase our chances of winning the flag.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by binman

[jnrmac 20,185]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

But will employ again if we can get the run in our legs back. 

Goody has clearly gone with the latter philosophy (though had def made some adjustments this season in this mid year phase eg reinforcing the defensive focus, less rusky kick etc).

And one assumes that is because it will increase our chances of winning the flag.

 

A big IF for mine but maybe they have seen the back half of the season and concluded that it is an 'easier' run of games and there is time to build.

Rd 16 we are top 4 so things are all OK. Start to fine tune our form into finals with a hopefully healthy list. It has quite a bit of risk to it though but it is a long season

I maintain we changed the way we play for the Carlton game as a pre-cursor or dress rehearsal for the Collingwood game. We now know that works. Similar to what Geelong did against us last year - they revealed some tactics assuming they would meet us in finals. That gives me some comfort they have a plan they are working towards. A finals style that can win big games.

But the jury is still out for me and it seems like we are playing with fire a bit. A few things go wrong - like Fritsch - and we are back in the pack making life much harder for ourselves.

 

 

[rpfc 28,777]

1 hour ago, binman said:

A serous question rpfc.

Do you think the way we play will change as we approach the finals, as it did in 2021 and 2022, with our scores going up and the game style being more expansive and looking like rounds 1-6 this year?

You are alluding to the focus of the team changing slightly and that leading to higher scoring and better conversion.

That may happen but I am more interested in how it would happen; players need to alter behaviour and look shorter or with hands, we need to work into space and not sit in it in the forward line, and we need to make better decisions with ball in hand. There is no switch for that. 

It is being predictable, trusting your teammate to do adhere to the above, and trusting yourself to take the extra second that our pressure doesn’t allow others. 

These are simple concepts but I have seen teams flirt with form and be unable to regain the above. So much of this game is mental and there is nothing as simple as a switch when it comes to the collective mind of a footy team.

[binman 43,762]

18 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

A big IF for mine but maybe they have seen the back half of the season and concluded that it is an 'easier' run of games and there is time to build.

Rd 16 we are top 4 so things are all OK. Start to fine tune our form into finals with a hopefully healthy list. It has quite a bit of risk to it though but it is a long season

I maintain we changed the way we play for the Carlton game as a pre-cursor or dress rehearsal for the Collingwood game. We now know that works. Similar to what Geelong did against us last year - they revealed some tactics assuming they would meet us in finals. That gives me some comfort they have a plan they are working towards. A finals style that can win big games.

But the jury is still out for me and it seems like we are playing with fire a bit. A few things go wrong - like Fritsch - and we are back in the pack making life much harder for ourselves.

 

 

Agree on all points.

It is definitely a high wire act.

It is a fascinating question I think as to how much teams are prepared to risk losing in the home and away season to increase their chances of winning a flag.

I think the dogs and tigers fundamentally changed the  calculation for many teams. Both teams played a style unsuited to playing a full home and away season - as their results attested.  

But a style definitely suited to winning a flag.

Recent history is crystal clear, the brutal, chaos football the tigers introduced is the template - since 2017 the only winner play8ng a different style outlier was the eagles in 2018 (ironically after the tigers had their best home and away season almost ever, only to lose the prelim as 1.40 favs). 

If you include the dogs win (diff approach, but still  chaotic) six of the seven flags have been won by teams using very similar methods.

In that same period, the lions, Port and the cats (until they famously changed course ladt year) were brilliant performers in the home and away phase, and perennial top 4s, but couldn't get it done when it counted.

Fans happy rounds 1-23. Not so happy come finals.

Meanwhile, goody is in his seventh season as an AFL coach, has made finals in only three of those seasons (will be four this year) - making a preliminary in 2018, a flag in 2021 and our in straight sets last year (having earned a double chance).

I'd take that record over say, ken Hinckley, who despite having incredible resources, strong teams and a pronounced home ground advantage, has not even made a GF, let alone win one.

Much the same could be said about Fagan and the lions.

[binman 43,762]

Just now, rpfc said:

You are alluding to the focus of the team changing slightly and that leading to higher scoring and better conversion.

No, I'm asking you a simple question.

Do you think the way we play will change as we approach the finals, as it did in 2021 and 2022, with our scores going up and the game style being more expansive and looking like rounds 1-6 this year? 

I'm not asking how we might achieve that, I'm asking if you think we will go back to the way we played in our preseason and round 1-6.

It's not a trick question.

And It is really a yes or no answer - maybe is a bit wishy washy.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Expected this news to be honest 

 

Well we somehow kicked 17 goals without him in round 1 with BBB, Pickett, Spargo and Gawn combining for 12 goals. These fellas are all going to have to step up in his absence and Trac will need to be a 50/50 mid-forward when Clarry returns and kick his 1 to 2 a week without fail.

[layzie 33,991]

2 hours ago, Vineytime said:

I’m hearing Fritch is out for 6-8!weeks, having surgery today. 

From how bad the injury looked I would probably take this to be honest. 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

5 hours ago, rpfc said:

Thanks TU. Without the time to research this in depth, I would argue we would have a few missed ‘gimmies’ most games, leaving the shallow and wide shots the more considerable culprit.

I would also argue against this growing point from a few that these are ‘reentries’ due to our high press.

That is what you get with a high press. That is by design.

Its a feature, not a bug. 

If we can’t maximise it and kick more than 70 points, we shouldn’t play it and we should sit back more and develop chains off half back.

So ‘reentries’ is another excuse for our poor connection and delivery into the forward line.

I agree. Another stat I'd love to see (maybe @WheeloRatings can help us out) is our percentage of scoring chains from the back half vs from the front half. It feels like recently our scores are coming from forward half turnovers/stoppages a lot more than earlier in the year when we were able to generate more scores from our back half.

If you look at our xScore maps from our earlier games, we were taking a similar spread of shots but were nailing the easier shots. For example, we were efficient vs GC:

 

[rpfc 28,777]

3 hours ago, binman said:

No, I'm asking you a simple question.

Do you think the way we play will change as we approach the finals, as it did in 2021 and 2022, with our scores going up and the game style being more expansive and looking like rounds 1-6 this year? 

I'm not asking how we might achieve that, I'm asking if you think we will go back to the way we played in our preseason and round 1-6.

It's not a trick question.

And It is really a yes or no answer - maybe is a bit wishy washy.

Without being rude, B, but how the F am I supposed to know if we will pull our collective fingers out? You don’t either, you hope we will as do I.

I am trying to make the point that it is not a fait accompli that we return to the healthier movement, use of space, and delivery into the forward line that we have seen previously. ESPECIALLY, considering this was the original sin of this team in through 2020 - pumping the ball forward into nothingness.

Personally, I think they need the leaders to take on the game more and take that extra half second and lower their eyes AND they may need to pair that with pulling back the press a bit to allow us to have more space to move the footy with confidence. It’s too suffocating and we have no space for structure and space to move into.

[binman 43,762]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Without being rude, B, but how the F am I supposed to know if we will pull our collective fingers out? You don’t either, you hope we will as do I.

I am trying to make the point that it is not a fait accompli that we return to the healthier movement, use of space, and delivery into the forward line that we have seen previously. ESPECIALLY, considering this was the original sin of this team in through 2020 - pumping the ball forward into nothingness.

Personally, I think they need the leaders to take on the game more and take that extra half second and lower their eyes AND they may need to pair that with pulling back the press a bit to allow us to have more space to move the footy with confidence. It’s too suffocating and we have no space for structure and space to move into.

Fair enough RP.

Apologies, i wasn't trying to create a Lord Nev style gotcha circular argument. 

I am life long punter on the ponies. That experience has informed how i analyze football.

For example, critical data for horse punters is the form.

Obviously current form, but even more important is historical form and patterns - both for specific horses and more broadly (for example the record of international 3 year olds in the Melbourne cup).  

I apply the same lens to footy and the dees trajectory. Of course history is not a iron clad predictor of future events, but it is an excellent guide - in horses and footy.

Based on the evidence and history, i strongly believe that in all probability, that by round 19 or 20 the way we play will change, just as it did in 2021 and 2022, with our scores going up, the game style being more expansive and looking like rounds 1-6 this year.

And it wont be because we (not suggesting these are your views, well except for pulling the finger out) :

• Have rediscovered our dare (like it was hiding behind the couch)
• Pulled our finger out
• Just decided to play differently
• Stood up
• Recognized the folly of our  current method
• Any other mystical explanation 

It will be, just like a horse trainer plotting to win a group one race, because it is a forensically planned out campaign.

Edited July 4, 2023 by binman

[BrisbaneDemon 1,572]

I don’t think this has been addressed previously….

I think it’s worthwhile that all the attendees that went to dinner at Entrecote return to the restaurant, wearing the same clothes, same table, same meals, but this time May punches Melksham at the stroke of midnight to reverse this bad juju that has followed ever since.

 

[dazzledavey36 55,319]

Only at Melbourne...

 

 

[WheeloRatings 1,163]

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Another stat I'd love to see (maybe @WheeloRatings can help us out) is our percentage of scoring chains from the back half vs from the front half. It feels like recently our scores are coming from forward half turnovers/stoppages a lot more than earlier in the year when we were able to generate more scores from our back half.

Here are the points from defensive chains, forward chains and centre bounces for the last three seasons, and for each round this season. The percentage of points from the defensive half is higher this season than the previous two season, but has only been above our 2023 season average in two of our last eight matches (Carlton & Collingwood).

We average 33.5 points per match from the defensive half this season, but have only scored 15 points in total over the past two weeks.

Points scored from chain origin

Season	Round	Opposition	Defensive	%	Forward	%	Centre Bounce	%
2021			716	31.9	1164	51.8	366	16.3
2022			748	35.9	1021	49.0	314	15.1
2023			503	37.4	681	50.6	161	12.0
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	78	67.8	25	21.7	12	10.4
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	38	46.3	38	46.3	6	7.3
2023	Round 3	Sydney	43	32.1	70	52.2	21	15.7
2023	Round 4	West Coast	50	39.7	69	54.8	7	5.6
2023	Round 5	Essendon	32	41.6	30	39.0	15	19.5
2023	Round 6	Richmond	27	28.1	57	59.4	12	12.5
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	55	39.6	59	42.4	25	18.0
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	21	23.3	60	66.7	9	10.0
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	32	31.1	70	68.0	1	1.0
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	20	26.3	43	56.6	13	17.1
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	17	23.6	36	50.0	19	26.4
2023	Round 12	Carlton	47	77.0	12	19.7	2	3.3
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	28	42.4	26	39.4	12	18.2
2023	Round 15	Geelong	4	6.3	58	92.1	1	1.6
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	11	24.4	28	62.2	6	13.3

 

Here is a further disaggregation of defensive chains, separating turnovers, kick-ins and stoppages (limited to where Melbourne won the clearance). We score from roughly 13% of defensive half stoppages and defensive half clearances, but has been much lower in the last two weeks.

Defensive half chains by category

Season	Round	Opposition	Chains	Scored	%	Score	Points / Chain
Turnover
2021			1268	154	12.1	554	0.44
2022			1177	148	12.6	553	0.47
2023			744	95	12.8	350	0.47
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	55	13	23.6	58	1.05
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	53	5	9.4	20	0.38
2023	Round 3	Sydney	40	5	12.5	25	0.62
2023	Round 4	West Coast	42	7	16.7	32	0.76
2023	Round 5	Essendon	49	5	10.2	20	0.41
2023	Round 6	Richmond	56	7	12.5	27	0.48
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	50	6	12.0	31	0.62
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	48	5	10.4	20	0.42
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	52	9	17.3	24	0.46
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	50	4	8.0	14	0.28
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	44	6	13.6	16	0.36
2023	Round 12	Carlton	38	6	15.8	21	0.55
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	45	7	15.6	27	0.60
2023	Round 15	Geelong	57	4	7.0	4	0.07
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	65	6	9.2	11	0.17
Kick-in
2021			191	19	9.9	59	0.31
2022			219	10	4.6	40	0.18
2023			140	9	6.4	44	0.31
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	11	2	18.2	12	1.09
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	9	1	11.1	6	0.67
2023	Round 3	Sydney	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 4	West Coast	9	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 5	Essendon	14	2	14.3	12	0.86
2023	Round 6	Richmond	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	7	2	28.6	12	1.71
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	7	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	6	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	14	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	7	1	14.3	1	0.14
2023	Round 12	Carlton	8	1	12.5	1	0.12
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	8	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 15	Geelong	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	4	0	0.0	0	0.00
Stoppage (Other)
2021			310	28	9.0	103	0.33
2022			300	45	15.0	155	0.52
2023			184	24	13.0	109	0.59
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	9	3	33.3	8	0.89
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	18	2	11.1	12	0.67
2023	Round 3	Sydney	7	3	42.9	18	2.57
2023	Round 4	West Coast	12	3	25.0	18	1.50
2023	Round 5	Essendon	15	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 6	Richmond	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	11	2	18.2	12	1.09
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	14	1	7.1	1	0.07
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	11	3	27.3	8	0.73
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	11	1	9.1	6	0.55
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	10	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 12	Carlton	15	5	33.3	25	1.67
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	16	1	6.2	1	0.06
2023	Round 15	Geelong	11	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	12	0	0.0	0	0.00

 

All defensive half chains

Season	Round	Opposition	Chains	Scored	%	Score	Points / Chain
2021			1769	201	11.4	716	0.40
2022			1696	203	12.0	748	0.44
2023			1068	128	12.0	503	0.47
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	75	18	24.0	78	1.04
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	80	8	10.0	38	0.47
2023	Round 3	Sydney	59	8	13.6	43	0.73
2023	Round 4	West Coast	63	10	15.9	50	0.79
2023	Round 5	Essendon	78	7	9.0	32	0.41
2023	Round 6	Richmond	80	7	8.8	27	0.34
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	68	10	14.7	55	0.81
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	69	6	8.7	21	0.30
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	69	12	17.4	32	0.46
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	75	5	6.7	20	0.27
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	61	7	11.5	17	0.28
2023	Round 12	Carlton	61	12	19.7	47	0.77
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	69	8	11.6	28	0.41
2023	Round 15	Geelong	80	4	5.0	4	0.05
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	81	6	7.4	11	0.14

[beelzebub 23,383]

41 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Only at Melbourne...

 

 

"Winning" 

[layzie 33,991]

12 hours ago, WheeloRatings said:

Here are the points from defensive chains, forward chains and centre bounces for the last three seasons, and for each round this season. The percentage of points from the defensive half is higher this season than the previous two season, but has only been above our 2023 season average in two of our last eight matches (Carlton & Collingwood).

We average 33.5 points per match from the defensive half this season, but have only scored 15 points in total over the past two weeks.

Points scored from chain origin

Season	Round	Opposition	Defensive	%	Forward	%	Centre Bounce	%
2021			716	31.9	1164	51.8	366	16.3
2022			748	35.9	1021	49.0	314	15.1
2023			503	37.4	681	50.6	161	12.0
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	78	67.8	25	21.7	12	10.4
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	38	46.3	38	46.3	6	7.3
2023	Round 3	Sydney	43	32.1	70	52.2	21	15.7
2023	Round 4	West Coast	50	39.7	69	54.8	7	5.6
2023	Round 5	Essendon	32	41.6	30	39.0	15	19.5
2023	Round 6	Richmond	27	28.1	57	59.4	12	12.5
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	55	39.6	59	42.4	25	18.0
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	21	23.3	60	66.7	9	10.0
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	32	31.1	70	68.0	1	1.0
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	20	26.3	43	56.6	13	17.1
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	17	23.6	36	50.0	19	26.4
2023	Round 12	Carlton	47	77.0	12	19.7	2	3.3
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	28	42.4	26	39.4	12	18.2
2023	Round 15	Geelong	4	6.3	58	92.1	1	1.6
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	11	24.4	28	62.2	6	13.3

 

Here is a further disaggregation of defensive chains, separating turnovers, kick-ins and stoppages (limited to where Melbourne won the clearance). We score from roughly 13% of defensive half stoppages and defensive half clearances, but has been much lower in the last two weeks.

Defensive half chains by category

Season	Round	Opposition	Chains	Scored	%	Score	Points / Chain
Turnover
2021			1268	154	12.1	554	0.44
2022			1177	148	12.6	553	0.47
2023			744	95	12.8	350	0.47
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	55	13	23.6	58	1.05
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	53	5	9.4	20	0.38
2023	Round 3	Sydney	40	5	12.5	25	0.62
2023	Round 4	West Coast	42	7	16.7	32	0.76
2023	Round 5	Essendon	49	5	10.2	20	0.41
2023	Round 6	Richmond	56	7	12.5	27	0.48
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	50	6	12.0	31	0.62
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	48	5	10.4	20	0.42
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	52	9	17.3	24	0.46
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	50	4	8.0	14	0.28
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	44	6	13.6	16	0.36
2023	Round 12	Carlton	38	6	15.8	21	0.55
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	45	7	15.6	27	0.60
2023	Round 15	Geelong	57	4	7.0	4	0.07
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	65	6	9.2	11	0.17
Kick-in
2021			191	19	9.9	59	0.31
2022			219	10	4.6	40	0.18
2023			140	9	6.4	44	0.31
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	11	2	18.2	12	1.09
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	9	1	11.1	6	0.67
2023	Round 3	Sydney	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 4	West Coast	9	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 5	Essendon	14	2	14.3	12	0.86
2023	Round 6	Richmond	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	7	2	28.6	12	1.71
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	7	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	6	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	14	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	7	1	14.3	1	0.14
2023	Round 12	Carlton	8	1	12.5	1	0.12
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	8	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 15	Geelong	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	4	0	0.0	0	0.00
Stoppage (Other)
2021			310	28	9.0	103	0.33
2022			300	45	15.0	155	0.52
2023			184	24	13.0	109	0.59
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	9	3	33.3	8	0.89
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	18	2	11.1	12	0.67
2023	Round 3	Sydney	7	3	42.9	18	2.57
2023	Round 4	West Coast	12	3	25.0	18	1.50
2023	Round 5	Essendon	15	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 6	Richmond	12	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	11	2	18.2	12	1.09
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	14	1	7.1	1	0.07
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	11	3	27.3	8	0.73
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	11	1	9.1	6	0.55
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	10	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 12	Carlton	15	5	33.3	25	1.67
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	16	1	6.2	1	0.06
2023	Round 15	Geelong	11	0	0.0	0	0.00
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	12	0	0.0	0	0.00

 

All defensive half chains

Season	Round	Opposition	Chains	Scored	%	Score	Points / Chain
2021			1769	201	11.4	716	0.40
2022			1696	203	12.0	748	0.44
2023			1068	128	12.0	503	0.47
2023	Round 1	Western Bulldogs	75	18	24.0	78	1.04
2023	Round 2	Brisbane	80	8	10.0	38	0.47
2023	Round 3	Sydney	59	8	13.6	43	0.73
2023	Round 4	West Coast	63	10	15.9	50	0.79
2023	Round 5	Essendon	78	7	9.0	32	0.41
2023	Round 6	Richmond	80	7	8.8	27	0.34
2023	Round 7	North Melbourne	68	10	14.7	55	0.81
2023	Round 8	Gold Coast	69	6	8.7	21	0.30
2023	Round 9	Hawthorn	69	12	17.4	32	0.46
2023	Round 10	Port Adelaide	75	5	6.7	20	0.27
2023	Round 11	Fremantle	61	7	11.5	17	0.28
2023	Round 12	Carlton	61	12	19.7	47	0.77
2023	Round 13	Collingwood	69	8	11.6	28	0.41
2023	Round 15	Geelong	80	4	5.0	4	0.05
2023	Round 16	Greater Western Sydney	81	6	7.4	11	0.14

15?! 15?!!!

Obviously hard to transition in the wet but geez. 

[jnrmac 20,185]

5 hours ago, layzie said:

15?! 15?!!!

Obviously hard to transition in the wet but geez. 

We can all see it but the brains trust are struggling to manage the required change. 

[fr_ap 2,529]

On 7/3/2023 at 8:37 AM, rpfc said:

I think this is absolute nonsense.

Still think so? 

Right now he does not want to be out there.