5 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

If you haven't experienced the environment at a Port or Crows (or Eagles) game, it's hard to describe. Yep - both games in our finals run in 2018 felt like we owned the G. We don't get much of that during the year.

I was in Adelaide last week and went to the Port game with the son and heir, and then went on Saturday. Chalk and cheese, and I have to believe that it affects even our most professional, self-motivated, and internally driven players (I will make no mention of the umpires).  As I said on Saturday's game day thread,  the game had 2041 Melbourne vs Freo at 4:20 on Sunday vibes. Freezing, empty stands, polite clapping. Freo supporters made as much noise as we did, with tiny numbers. 

 

On Kayo, it sounded like there were more Freo supporters at times. The G advantage isn't all it's cracked up to be. Not just the crowd factor.

34 minutes ago, binman said:

It is almost impossible to believe of any demon fan, but I sometime wonder if some posters actually understand how difficult it is to win a flag.

Goody won a flag the season before last.

Finished second on the ladder after the 2022 season (and yes went out in straight sets - but surely everyone knows by now that we entered the final with up to 11 players under injury clouds - and played like that).

We currently sit fourth on the ladder at almost the halfway point of the 2023 and almost all teams have played each other once (and will have after the next round).

So, leaving aside anyone's assessment of where we are at, be that postesr here or the media, the objective truth of the ladder is that we currently have the fourth best record of any team in the AFL.

And people can talk all they want about our forward line and scoring ability, but again the objective fact is that we have a higher percentage than the Pies, a team people still seem to rabbit on about their scoring power.

It is remarkable because the Pies have won a full three more games than us. Three less wins - and yet we still have a higher percentage.

The Pies have now played one of the two real easy beats in North (who we get to play again, and they don't by the way) and 11 rounds of AFL football is more than enough to level out any of the fixturing anomalies that might make such a comparison hard after say 5 rounds. And it is worth noting that of the Pies' 11 games, 8 have been played at the MCG. That's a pretty good leg up for them scoring wise. 

Some argue the Lions have the best forward line in the AFL. After 11 rounds, they have won one more game, yet we have almost 10 percentage points more - despite the leg up they get playing their Gabba fortress. 

And Port is considered not a bad attacking side and have a decent forward line and have won two more games than us. Yet we are a whopping 22 percentage points clear of them.

After we smashed the Hawks no one was talking about our forward line problems. In fact, we were being lauded for our historically high spread of goal kickers. Yet we have two average games against two good teams and its panic stations.

And against Freo we actually got our chances, we just didn't take them. as reflected in the expected score which had us at plus 35.

Bottom line, Goody has made it clear he isnt about one flag. Or two.  He is about setting up an environment where we are in contention for a flag for many years. In that he has clearly taken a line through how the Cats have gone about doing so, who won flag in Scotts first year (a team that was strong already), remained contender for the next 9 years before winning a second flag for that group. And are contenders again this season. 

But some are seriously suggesting Goody lucked out, or we need a reboot. I mean really? The objective fact simply do not support such a view. 

Had we got over the line against Port and Fremantle I just wonder how different the discussion would have been on this forum.

Nearly half way through the season, fourth on the ladder with the highest percentage. Big three games coming up. GO DEES!

On 5/27/2023 at 10:48 PM, Jaded No More said:

And by the way, nobody at Demonland is forcing anyone to read anything. If people don’t like to read posts after a loss, why come online then? Venting about others venting is equally as ridiculous

Good post JNM. It's my experience, ( and I like to think I have some life experience in middle age after raising a family, battling chronic health issues, losing loved ones, forging a career, community work , building a home etc) that like any team, this site has the proverbial supreme. There are certainly posters who will often shoot terse responses to other posters solely for the reason it gives their small life a modicum of self esteem.  Some people are naturally ill tempered and not self reflective so as they may grow and experience life to its fullest. Too small minded or disgruntled in their own personal lives to stop and think that at the other end of their brief serve is another human being. A  mother, father, sister,  brother who may even  be going or gone through things that would crush the other.

Think Donald J Trump as the ultimate example. It's a website of differing emotions and ways of seeing the world. I'd wager the people that shoot terse posts are in reality miserable SOBs that get a ridiculous kick out of putting others down. Or the sniper who constantly has a crack at someone via a negative Emoji. OH Bravo to you sir or madam. Well played.

Smile and move on, I say. Laugh in the knowledge of what they are and what your not.   Or at least grown out of. Or trying too. ( Emphasis on growth) My dear late Father would ask ..What did you learn today? My mother, what did you learn about yourself?.

Life is too short to sweat the ill temper in it. As sweet as it is, it is but a vapor. Go Dees.

Edited May 29, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

2 hours ago, BDA said:

I actually agree with this. The G is too cavernous for a 25k crowd. There was 33k at the Crows Lions game yesterday and even though a not much bigger crowd than Saturday the noise levels were much higher. 

The guy that sits next to me on level 2A was at quarter time involving in trying to kick a football into a tin can to try and win money for his local footy team.

We sit on level 2A and from our vantage point the G looked miserably empty.  The positive however while standing on the ground he reckoned the G looked a lot fuller and it seemed more noisy than sitting in the stands.

How is that for desperate optimism for our players - that at the very least, they feel there are lots of footy fans there to support them who are also making some noise! All is not lost. GO DEES!

1 hour ago, Wodjathefirst said:

Had we got over the line against Port and Fremantle I just wonder how different the discussion would have been on this forum.

Nearly half way through the season, fourth on the ladder with the highest percentage. Big three games coming up. GO DEES!

It wouldn't be too much different. The narrative would just be papering over the cracks yada yada yada.

By the by, i totally acknowledge we have some significant weaknesses and some potential issues. 

Ironically given JVR is now playing senior footy and we have brought in Schache, one of them is exactly the same as last year – real concern about the second tall forward position.

Another is our small and medium defender role – but on that front kudos must go to keeping Schultz quiet.

I have long said our biggest weakness is our kicking skills, and it remains a worry and even our very best players, with the possible exception of Oliver are not one touch players like say Butters (who was brilliant in the wet against us and the Tigers).

Maxy is still not 100% and I don’t think he and Grundy have quiet nailed their synergy. 

And i fall into the trap of underestimating the impact of injuries we have dealt with - we really missed Petty, Max out for 3 games (and most of the lions game) and still finding his best,  May looks to have struggled all season with the ground ball suggesting back issues or similar, losing Hibberd and Lever right before games, Tmac still struggling with his foot, BB not ready for senior footy and Salem missing 9 games.  

But we are not playing in vacuum. Every other team, including the three above us on the ladder, have their share of problems too, including the Pies (who by the by are 10-1 after 11 rounds, same as us last year and we know that guarantees nothing come finals).

Are Lions, Dog, Saints and Cats fans writing off their top 4 or finals chances after the week’s losses? Maybe. Nuffies follow all clubs.

But perhaps a better question is are dees fans writing off say the Lions and the dogs after their poor losses against lower ranked teams? Some maybe, but because Dees are fans are likely more objective about other teams most wouldn’t.  

Edited May 29, 20231 yr by binman

Wherever you sit on the negativity spectrum,  I think the discussion in this thread has been both instructive (in the perspective it's provided) and constructive (in bridging the varying viewpoints). Kudos to all.

On 5/28/2023 at 11:17 AM, layzie said:

Can't tell if this is a compliment or an insult but thanks either way!

You are more than welcome to say something @Rhino Richards as opposed to repeatedly facepalming my posts from the cheap seats.. 

1 hour ago, Wodjathefirst said:

Had we got over the line against Port and Fremantle I just wonder how different the discussion would have been on this forum.

Nearly half way through the season, fourth on the ladder with the highest percentage. Big three games coming up. GO DEES!

That is the point we didn't and to be honest watching the game it did not seem we would win either

1 hour ago, binman said:

It wouldn't be too much different. The narrative would just be papering over the cracks yada yada yada.

By the by, i totally acknowledge we have some significant weaknesses and some potential issues. 

Ironically given JVR is now playing senior footy and we have brought in Schache, one of them is exactly the same as last year – real concern about the second tall forward position.

Another is our small and medium defender role – but on that front kudos must go to keeping Schultz quiet.

I have long said our biggest weakness is our kicking skills, and it remains a worry and even our very best players, with the possible exception of Oliver are not one touch players like say Butters (who was brilliant in the wet against us and the Tigers).

Maxy is still not 100% and I don’t think he and Grundy have quiet nailed their synergy. 

And i fall into the trap of underestimating the impact of injuries we have dealt with - we really missed Petty, Max out for 3 games (and most of the lions game) and still finding his best,  May looks to have struggled all season with the ground ball suggesting back issues or similar, losing Hibberd and Lever right before games, Tmac still struggling with his foot, BB not ready for senior footy and Salem missing 9 games.  

But we are not playing in vacuum. Every other team, including the three above us on the ladder, have their share of problems too, including the Pies (who by the by are 10-1 after 11 rounds, same as us last year and we know that guarantees nothing come finals).

Are Lions, Dog, Saints and Cats fans writing off their top 4 or finals chances after the week’s losses? Maybe. Nuffies follow all clubs.

But perhaps a better question is are dees fans writing off say the Lions and the dogs after their poor losses against lower ranked teams? Some maybe, but because Dees are fans are likely more objective about other teams most wouldn’t.  

I don't watch a lot of other games Binman and to be honest I don't care what other teams members think or do. I care about winning winnable games. Playing the top team on KB is one I think we will have trouble wining but the Blues this weekend is one we should win. If we don't I will be really annoyed.

5 hours ago, old dee said:

The G is not good when there is a small crowd that is spread out. That game with 25k in the enclosed confines of AFL park ( I know that is not the name) would have sounded way better. While we all hate it games against gws, Freo, wce should be played there. 25 - 30k attendance works better than at the G. We simply don't have enough mad fans to play those games at the G. It's one of the reasons I think this preoccupation to have a home near the G is silly. It doesn't mean anything to the average fan just the fanatics and we don't have many of them. 

We wouldn't have gotten 29k to Dockland though. Of that 29k, maybe 8k were in the MCC reserve. Throw in the MFC Member who doesn't attend Marvel games anyway and attendance would have been 12k-14k.

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Wherever you sit on the negativity spectrum,  I think the discussion in this thread has been both instructive (in the perspective it's provided) and constructive (in bridging the varying viewpoints). Kudos to all.

Out of interest is that "negativity" spectrum related to the Reality Measure ?

The denotion of anyone with a counter view being negative is both patronising  and borderline elitist.

We all have different views and different starting points.

I think you should leave it at that.

Cheers

Last time we had an earthquake in Melbourne we won the flag. 
So, all in all, nothing to see here, flag is in the bag. Carry on. 

All I can say is our forward line is screwed

 

59 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Last time we had an earthquake in Melbourne we won the flag. 
So, all in all, nothing to see here, flag is in the bag. Carry on. 

Perhaps we should put the state into lockdown and transfer all the games interstate. We seem to excell under those conditions. 

3 hours ago, layzie said:

You are more than welcome to say something @Rhino Richards as opposed to repeatedly facepalming my posts from the cheap seats.. 

I thought it was just me he continually facepalmed! We're kindred spirits now layz. 

If he ever posts anything I'll be sure to facepalm it 😜

27 minutes ago, BDA said:

I thought it was just me he continually facepalmed! We're kindred spirits now layz. 

If he ever posts anything I'll be sure to facepalm it 😜

Don’t worry. It’s me too. 

Nothing more cowardly than face palming the opinions of others while contributing absolutely no opinions of your own. 
Classic narcissist behavior. 

6 hours ago, binman said:

It wouldn't be too much different. The narrative would just be papering over the cracks yada yada yada.

By the by, i totally acknowledge we have some significant weaknesses and some potential issues. 

Ironically given JVR is now playing senior footy and we have brought in Schache, one of them is exactly the same as last year – real concern about the second tall forward position.

Another is our small and medium defender role – but on that front kudos must go to keeping Schultz quiet.

I have long said our biggest weakness is our kicking skills, and it remains a worry and even our very best players, with the possible exception of Oliver are not one touch players like say Butters (who was brilliant in the wet against us and the Tigers).

Maxy is still not 100% and I don’t think he and Grundy have quiet nailed their synergy. 

And i fall into the trap of underestimating the impact of injuries we have dealt with - we really missed Petty, Max out for 3 games (and most of the lions game) and still finding his best,  May looks to have struggled all season with the ground ball suggesting back issues or similar, losing Hibberd and Lever right before games, Tmac still struggling with his foot, BB not ready for senior footy and Salem missing 9 games.  

But we are not playing in vacuum. Every other team, including the three above us on the ladder, have their share of problems too, including the Pies (who by the by are 10-1 after 11 rounds, same as us last year and we know that guarantees nothing come finals).

Are Lions, Dog, Saints and Cats fans writing off their top 4 or finals chances after the week’s losses? Maybe. Nuffies follow all clubs.

But perhaps a better question is are dees fans writing off say the Lions and the dogs after their poor losses against lower ranked teams? Some maybe, but because Dees are fans are likely more objective about other teams most wouldn’t.  

I am beginning to think the Gawn / Grundy thing is one ruckman too many  and one forward short. we will no doubt continue with it until one of them gets injured. 

Edited May 29, 20231 yr by old dee

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Out of interest is that "negativity" spectrum related to the Reality Measure ?

The denotion of anyone with a counter view being negative is both patronising  and borderline elitist.

We all have different views and different starting points.

I think you should leave it at that.

Cheers

You seem to have something misconstrued mate. I haven't posted anything in this thread other than at the start when I said we all felt despair. 

For what it's worth, I'm completely skewed to the negative and constantly clash with my brother who is the opposite. He and I sadly often reach the point where we won't speak after a game for a couple of days - so personally, the long explanations from both sides of the coin have helped me. That's all I was getting at. 

Think you have me confused for someone else? 

9 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I'm welcome to have my opinion on Freo bring a good or average side.

 

Yes you are. But if its based on flawed logic and also shared on a forum you need to be able to take some banter too. 

Nothing personal intended, but come on mate.... Fremantle in the last month are a different proposition to the easy beats that wore Purple early in the season. 

This season is so even and teams are still finding their way. just looking at win/loss and who beat who is too simplistic if it's going to be used to make sweeping statements like your original post 

 

 

Edited May 29, 20231 yr by DemonWA
Typo

2 hours ago, DemonWA said:

Yes you are. But if its based on flawed logic and also shared on a forum you need to be able to take some banter too. 

Nothing personal intended, but come on mate.... Fremantle in the last month are a different proposition to the easy beats that wore Purple early in the season. 

This season is so even and teams are still finding their way. just looking at win/loss and who beat who is too simplistic if it's going to be used to make sweeping statements like your original post 

 

 

I must admit it has no longer been any fun trawling through the ‘deathriding Freo’ forum comments in the past few weeks

15 hours ago, poita said:

I can't be bothered reading this entire thread, but it's clear to me that there are two types of Melbourne supporters. One who were calling for change 10 games into Mark Neeld's coaching career when it was clear that we were going rapidly backwards, and two who would still be preaching patience and positivity after five years of watching him destroy the club. I know which attitude is more likely to lead to success. 

Ludicrous analogy.

11 hours ago, fr_ap said:

You seem to have something misconstrued mate. I haven't posted anything in this thread other than at the start when I said we all felt despair. 

For what it's worth, I'm completely skewed to the negative and constantly clash with my brother who is the opposite. He and I sadly often reach the point where we won't speak after a game for a couple of days - so personally, the long explanations from both sides of the coin have helped me. That's all I was getting at. 

Think you have me confused for someone else? 

Thats tough...  at least it thaws after a few days.

My point was simply too many jump to the assertion that its all gauged as negativity. 

For me its all about the reality...  ...that is then seemed/deemed as either positive or negative by those of the different camps.

Bit like the old glass half full/empty scenario.  I just say its at 50%.....   bit like Melbourne currently. 

All good .

I hadn't read or posted on this forum yet, but have to say, knee jerk poster give me the Sheeeits!!

15 hours ago, DemonWA said:

Yes you are. But if its based on flawed logic and also shared on a forum you need to be able to take some banter too. 

Nothing personal intended, but come on mate.... Fremantle in the last month are a different proposition to the easy beats that wore Purple early in the season. 

This season is so even and teams are still finding their way. just looking at win/loss and who beat who is too simplistic if it's going to be used to make sweeping statements like your original post 

 

 

Thanks Dwa.

I appreciate the respectful tone. Calling someone's opinion trash without offering any argument as to why, isnt banter fgs. Heaven help the person on the train next to you engaged in some chit chat . So you can't just put this on me by following up with that I need to be able to take some. It was poor form on your behalf, not mine. If anything this inference is a projection on your behalf as shown by your original response. 

My basis wasn't just on the win loss ratio which must hold some bearing (  I mean it's the whole basis for who plays finals). It was also based on their % and the actual teams they have beaten  (only one in the top 8 which is us). And Im sure we can both agree regardless of reasons, the Mfc hasnt been playing its best).

Ok so Freo have had some recent form (not a great deal if we acknowledge our team is down on it), but I still believe they are an average team with some good young talent. Also their win against the cats isn't that outstanding given the cats midfield was  decimated by injuries. Their swans win, was their best at the scg but it also seems that the Swans like us, have been in a bigger rut. Everyone pretty much agrees the comp is tight this year. Average teams can play good footy. Bad teams can upset good teams. Top teams can play poorly at times. Even if they have had a spike of good form lately and appear  to be trending upward , one must look at all games. We will both know more at the end of the year obviously.  If they make finals will you then claim they are a good side?I'm sure you would. Because they have beaten enough sides. So at the end of the day, or season to be more precise, what determines a good side is points and % is the sole criteria.  Some clubs have tough draws but I don't think Freo does. Also Freo have had a fair run regarding injuries and are currently leading the "least injuries list" with only 2 players listed as injuries at present.

You claim my logic is flawed but let's both just be honest, I am the only one who has detailed any. Your 2nd post, may be less insulting, but again does nothing to back up your opinion. You have just  simply not in any post given one reason to refute my claim that I don't believe Freo are a good side. I'm sure your an intelligent person, so you must admit that his is so, no matter how (at this point) you FEEL that they are. 

Just saying.

Have a good day and enjoy our win this weekend.

Edited May 30, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

22 hours ago, binman said:

i fall into the trap of underestimating the impact of injuries we have dealt with - we really missed Petty, Max out for 3 games (and most of the lions game) and still finding his best,  May looks to have struggled all season with the ground ball suggesting back issues or similar, losing Hibberd and Lever right before games, Tmac still struggling with his foot, BB not ready for senior footy and Salem missing 9 games.  

Good point. Also Fritta was an injury riddled late starter and may still be struggling. Tmac has had injuries too since last year. Spargo concussed and Kozzie suspended. Neither our back or forward line has as a result managed to build and maintain stability and synergy.