The Pies don't win a flag without De Goey, who's had a dozen more off-field transgressions than Clarry. Instead of cutting him loose. they freed up salary cap space to re-sign him by trading a solid citizen in Grundy. 

If the alleged off-field issues with Clarry are true, then it's up to the club to deal with it. You don't trade away a proven generational talent for draft picks when you are still in a premiership window.

Edited October 3, 20231 yr by mo64

  On 26/09/2023 at 04:36, Jaded No More said:

Never going to happen. 7 years left on his contract. 

For the powerful clubs, contracts mean little. We are not yet a power club. Just the same, the loss of Clarrie would be the greatest mistake of the MFC since the loss of Ronald Dale in the mid-60s. To even consider it would be sacrilege. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 19:19, Wells 11 said:

Ok so let me try and see if i’m getting this straight. 

1./ oliver self tattoos foot and misses games with infection 

2./ falls out with conditioning coach

3./ breaks up with girlfriend and loses his [censored]. 

4./ rocks up late and wasted to post season interview 

None of that is terminal fr a generational player like Oliver football clubs move past [censored] like this all the time. But his attitude meets a period where we’ve just lost 4 finals in a row, Goody is taking no prisoners,   harley reid is sitting right there and Tasmania is coming. 

Im going to have to take a deep breath and sit with it. 

The problem I can see is that it can very likely be terminal for standards and culture. 
How do the younger players respond upon witnessing this recurring behaviour from one of our stars? And the subsequent reactions from the coaching dept in response?

Our last 2 finals campaigns would indicate that some sort of change is needed. Time to be bold.

We witnessed the wheels turning slowly in the back ground and then very quickly towards the end for Hogan at MFC. I suspect the same may be happening here. The club has flagged within media circles very early that we have eyes on the number 1 pick. Rumblings of Clayton unhappy, agitating for change. I believe we could see some quick & decisive movement here and be the better for it. The stars appear to be aligning for North. Simpkin being one of Clarry’s best mates. A bevy of early picks. Desperate for quality senior players & relevance. 

I know nothing, but past experience has me feeling something is definitely brewing.

  On 03/10/2023 at 15:46, JimmyGadson said:

The only way you'd lose out on this is if it were to cause unrest within the group, club and individual. 

That would be a disaster. 

 

It doesn’t sound like most supporters are happy or on board. And it won’t get any easier if we don’t go on to have serious success next year. 
He is also very close with many of our most important players. And if he’s living with Gawny now as reported, then it doesn’t sound like the players are keen to get him out the door either. 

There are many unknowns in this scenario, but the club would want to get this one right. Letting one of the best players we’ve had in decades go and not experiencing serious success shortly after (regardless of whether the two are related or not), will cause major supporter unrest. Rightly or wrongly. 
 

To be clear I am a massive Clarry fan and I don’t want to lose him. But I also care most about us being successful. I just cannot equate how trading Clarry makes us better. But if it does then so be it. 
The risk is definitely there that it won’t. 
 

  On 03/10/2023 at 19:19, Wells 11 said:

3./ breaks up with girlfriend and loses his [censored]

I don’t think that was recent. Maybe 12+ months ago.  Went to last year’s Brownlow with a different girl from memory

  On 03/10/2023 at 18:10, 58er said:

As far as I have heard subject to medical checks Gus is intending to play on.  So far he has received positive news from all medical tests. Needs another last result only now from a team of experts or such like. 

I’ve heard that despite medical reports he’s seriously contemplating retirement. 
A lot of family pressure to not play on. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:17, Jaded No More said:

It doesn’t sound like most supporters are happy or on board. And it won’t get any easier if we don’t go on to have serious success next year. 
He is also very close with many of our most important players. And if he’s living with Gawny now as reported, then it doesn’t sound like the players are keen to get him out the door either. 

There are many unknowns in this scenario, but the club would want to get this one right. Letting one of the best players we’ve had in decades go and not experiencing serious success shortly after (regardless of whether the two are related or not), will cause major supporter unrest. Rightly or wrongly. 
 

To be clear I am a massive Clarry fan and I don’t want to lose him. But I also care most about us being successful. I just cannot equate how trading Clarry makes us better. But if it does then so be it. 
The risk is definitely there that it won’t. 
 

See, this is the quandary.

But I just can’t reconcile that while Clarry is a genuine star, his excellence simply doesn’t appear to translate into team success. Or at least not the success or dominance that I’d expect.

His brilliance to win the footy on congestion, but then blindly banging the footy on his boot & kicking it in a way that sees it travel vertically moreso than horizontally, he’s become somewhat of cliche. I know he’s capable of more, but he just doesn’t do it. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:18, The Jackson FIX said:

I don’t think that was recent. Maybe 12+ months ago.  Went to last year’s Brownlow with a different girl from memory

Yeah, but this sort of thing often takes time to land properly. Maybe time enough has passed for him to have some regrets but also realise that some bridges cannot be mended.

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:02, mo64 said:

The Pies don't win a flag without De Goey, who's had a dozen more off-field transgressions than Clarry.

What Collingwood did with De Goey and Richmond did with Dusty is irrelevant.    There is not one person on this forum, or one supporter who understands anywhere near as much about what is going on as those making decisions at the club.  

The ongoing assumption that ‘Melbourne just aren’t putting their arms around Clarry’ like Collingwood did with De Goey is naive. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:27, Mach5 said:

See, this is the quandary.

But I just can’t reconcile that while Clarry is a genuine star, his excellence simply doesn’t appear to translate into team success. Or at least not the success or dominance that I’d expect.

His brilliance to win the footy on congestion, but then blindly banging the footy on his boot & kicking it in a way that sees it travel vertically moreso than horizontally, he’s become somewhat of cliche. I know he’s capable of more, but he just doesn’t do it. 

You didn’t complain in 2021 when he won a flag and our B&F and the coaches award. 
 

A lot of revisionism on this board based off this season where he missed 10 weeks, and has also carried a knee injury heading into finals. 
He was brilliant prior to his injury. Short memories. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:29, Mach5 said:

Yeah, but this sort of thing often takes time to land properly. Maybe time enough has passed for him to have some regrets but also realise that some bridges cannot be mended.

I am not disagreeing. I understand it (from people who are closer to him than me - I’ve never met him) to have been an ’ongoing’ slide rather than just a brain snap 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:30, The Jackson FIX said:

What Collingwood did with De Goey and Richmond did with Dusty is irrelevant.    There is not one person on this forum, or one supporter who understands anywhere near as much about what is going on as those making decisions at the club.  

The ongoing assumption that ‘Melbourne just aren’t putting their arms around Clarry’ like Collingwood did with De Goey is naive. 

If the club is contemplating trading him, they are hardly putting their arms around him.

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:35, mo64 said:

If the club is contemplating trading him, they are hardly putting their arms around him.

You have close to zero idea what they have been doing or attempting to do with him over the last 12+ months. Me too. That’s my point. 

Who’s to say they haven’t attempted on many occasions but he’s not responding sufficiently well to those attempts ?

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:40, The Jackson FIX said:

You have close to zero idea what they have been doing or attempting to do with him over the last 12+ months. Me too. That’s my point. 

Who’s to say they haven’t attempted on many occasions but he’s not responding sufficiently well to those attempts ?

At the end of the day, they have either given up on him or not. His on-field form was hardly diabolical. As we've seen with DeGoey and Dusty, off-field issues are reparable.

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:32, Jaded No More said:

You didn’t complain in 2021 when he won a flag and our B&F and the coaches award. 

I Dont think anyone is ( truly)  Those are events having occurred yet not flavour of the cake presently before us.  What WAS may not be NOW..  or it might. Point being as they say in finance, past performance may not indicate future.

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:32, Jaded No More said:

He was brilliant prior to his injury.

The flip side being .....  not quite as effective since. Now that might improve..or may not.

Certainly seems to have been a lot having been played out that only the concerned parties know.

There's something very odd about all of this. The most obvious being here we are talking about Oliver. Bizarre 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:23, Jaded No More said:

I’ve heard that despite medical reports he’s seriously contemplating retirement. 
A lot of family pressure to not play on. 

Obviously plenty to play out on this. Yes but he's always had the family pressure and that won't go away. End of day it's his decision and his partners really now. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:55, 58er said:

Obviously plenty to play out on this. Yes but he's always had the family pressure and that won't go away. End of day it's his decision and his partners really now. 

There is also no doubt that any further head knocks will see him walk away. So it’s definitely not guaranteed that he will play out his career as we hope. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 20:30, The Jackson FIX said:

The ongoing assumption that ‘Melbourne just aren’t putting their arms around Clarry’ like Collingwood did with De Goey is naive. 

That is typical of many posters on this site in regards to the club and players for any hiccups that may occur.

 

  On 03/10/2023 at 19:19, Wells 11 said:

Ok so let me try and see if i’m getting this straight. 

1./ oliver self tattoos foot and misses games with infection 

2./ falls out with conditioning coach

3./ breaks up with girlfriend and loses his [censored]. 

4./ rocks up late and wasted to post season interview

Well let's tar and feather him then run him out f town

Edited October 3, 20231 yr by drysdale demon
spelling

The trading process started late last week with the List Managers/Recruiters annual meeting to discuss their list status and trade posibilities.

To flag mfc being 'open to a trade' all it had to do was leave Clarrie off the so called 'untouchables' list.   Or there was some other mechanism at that meeting to flag mfc's position.  Naturally, clubs started doing their homework.  It was only a matter of time before the info reached Twomey and Beveridge.

MFC didn't leak a possible Oliver trade - it is part of the trading process.  This also answers the question of how other clubs came to know that mfc was open to trading him. 

It is worth noting that his management made no comment and the club has not denied the story.

Clubs don't let Oliver type players go without exceptional reasons.  We don't know what they are but shouldn't doubt that being open to trading him is the result of a long and considered process.

  On 03/10/2023 at 11:39, Jaded No More said:

How often have we been seduced by early picks and they’ve amounted to nothing more than good ordinary players. 
To trade the best contested midfielder in the game for speculative picks is a hard sell for me. 
Would need an established player involved. 

I don't think it's about being seduced by picks this time mate. It's about maintaining the culture that the club has tried so hard to foster, and maximising what is a dreadfully sorry and sad situation. 

Clarry is my favourite player, I'm devastated. But we've got the picks this year to work a deal that could rejuvenate our list.

The other thing not being talked about is the potential dramatic impact not having Clarry in our midfield will have on our game style. 

Collingwood have shown you don't need an elite midfield to win a flag. They've bucked the trend in that regard.

I trust JT, Lamb and the broader club to do what's right for the MFC here.

As gut wrenching as that is. I suspect many of us are so strongly bonded to Clarry because we waited so long for an elite midfielder and then we got him, he helped us win a flag and now here we are...

  On 03/10/2023 at 21:07, Binmans PA said:

 

Collingwood have shown you don't need an elite midfield to win a flag. They've bucked the trend in that regard.

 

They’re a statistical anomaly 

Are we going to plan our future around a club that has just won a flag by winning finals by a combined total of 12 points and a lot of luck? I hope not 

An elite midfield is and always has been the most important element of being successful. It’s why we started our build with the midfield. 

I hope like hell that we don’t bend over and that we get a seriously good deal and at least one established player out of this disastrous turn of events. Draft picks that may or may not come good won’t cut it for mine. 
 

If we don’t win another flag with this current list in front of our home crowd at our home ground, this entire era will be a wasted opportunity. 

Supporting this club is exhausting 

Edited October 3, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

  On 03/10/2023 at 15:23, JimmyGadson said:

Harley Reid has a more well rounded game than Clarry as it stands. 

That doesn’t stand. He’s never played a game of football at the top level. 

  On 03/10/2023 at 15:37, Garbo said:

So we lost to pies with bad kicking by 7 points, Gus getting knocked out and a fwd line tapped together and some how we are out of the window, pull another one. A few less injuries and some further development and maybe a smart trade and we are more than in the hunt

If you want to continue to live in the realm of imagination and eternal optimism that's fine, but don't trivialise the performance of the MFC over the past two seasons. 

If you're rationalising the result of the Collingwood game that way, then what do you suggest of the loss to Carlton after it; and the straight set exits last year? 

The side has been a shadow of its Premiership-self since the end of 2021 and I personally have said this for two years. The 'win-loss' ratio masked over many cracks and I would suggest those cracks are coming to the forefront now and opposition sides have worked us out. 

I agree that injuries play a part in the challenge for the flag and we did well on that front in 2021. But good sides also have the players and depth to cover injuries, which we are lacking and has been demonstrated throughout this year particularly. 

I would also say your quick comment about simply losing to the Pies by 7 points is trivialising the abomination of footskills that our club has and the sample size is far greater than one loss to the Pies. 

I'm probably going to be shouted down for this post, but personally I don't think it's as rosy and as simple as saying the club is more than in hunt, with the list as it is.

This isn't a doom and gloom post, I absolutely think we can potentially have another tilt - but list improvement is needed and as I said, there are several compromised drafts coming up and you don't want to be relying on those to regenerate. 

Edited October 3, 20231 yr by BLWNBA

This will do me.