Injured Players

[Lord Nev 13,512]

19 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Always easier in hindsight.  If we rested players then do we actually win the games we played in and then do we actually make top 4.  It’s always easier to say if we did something different then the result may have been different but it’s so subjective.  Goody has so much faith in the group which is one of the reasons we won the flag and why all our guns have committed long-term.  

TBF though, there were a lot of posters on here, and fans in general, increasingly questioning this as the year went on. There definitely is a lot of Captain Hindsight as well, but the management piece was brought up often during the year.

[tiers 2,810]

Undisclosed injuries or incomplete recovery from injuries gels well with the reasons for the poor second half performances in the latter half of the year.

For example, Maxie had what was considered to be a four week injury but resumed after two weeks. In hindsight, it didn't help much. No players were rested for "general soreness" and similar issues. Why not? BBB and Salem were struggling for long periods.

Introducing VFL players in the finals would have been a recipe for more failure. From the outside looking in with fogged up glasses, there seems to have been a lack of foresight and too much reliance on "the system".

That's why the coaches are paid the big bucks (and we get to call the shots in the ether).

[D4Life 2,405]

11 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

  The Deeprint      The Road to Redemption 2023

Good rest for the lads( none of this training 2 weeks after the GF business).

Take the necessary time to get over injuries properly, surgery, rehab, reinvigorate the players confidence.

Review all fitness related programs undertaken by Selwyn and Co and see if they are in need of a updating i.e new methods of training players skills for specific roles within the team, high intensity block, low intensity block training schedules.

Recruit where our weaknesses lie i.e (Forward line, Ruckman).

Plans B and C to be implemented and worked on during our pre season.

Promote and encourage VFL 2022 performances (Mark Corrigan, Players).

Bring in fresh coaching personnel who bring fresh ideas and perspective of the game, a fresh look from a different angle.

Tweak and Improve our current gamestyle nothing major required.

Hunger, Belief and Ruthless attitude to return for 2023.

If we follow the Deeprint we are morals for 2023.

- Dream

- Believe

- Achieve

 LETS LIVE THE DREAM

  AGAIN IN 

      2023!

    🇱🇮🏆🍾

 

I love your optimism, always better to be half full than half empty!

Ruck improvement - Grundy for next 2 years maybe 3 will be better than Luke Jackson (after that yrs 3-10 or 4-10 Jackson should be great)!

Wing improvement - Langdon speed and endurance is very good, but on other wing we either play Brayshaw or bring in a wingman who has elite disposal (think Isaac Smith)!

Tall Forward - I'm hopeful JVR can be CHF next year, BBB is fitter and Max is used differently in Forward half than all running to the pocket! If we can find a key forward in draft, that would be fantastic, but they will still be 2-3 seasons away from being effective, not sure if anyone available on trade table.

 Small forward - Either a Bedford or Chandler significantly steps up or we find a future Stengle type (Credit to Cats as he has been a great pick up for nothing - note: I hate Geelong)!

Small back - don't play Salem when he can't move!

- Let Hunt run and play aggressively, what he did against Carlton in last 5-10 minutes was great, otherwise let him! I'd also play him on same side of ground as Langdon so they can link up and run together.

- Small lockdown defender with good skills required, to counteract other teams fast entries and ball hitting the ground in our defense!

We lost to Sydney by 20 points and gave away 2 easy goals through 50/100 meter frees and missed 3-4 opportunities in the last, so while there is a lot of doom and gloom on Demonland, we are not far off it. Demons also got bashed as the Premier during the season and I think as others have stated pushed the boundary on player injured players too far during the season, rather than giving some other players opportunities. While we got this aspect right in 2021 of playing slightly injured players it backfired this year.

 

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

To me a JVR on debut would have been better than BB hobling around

[Monbon 1,787]

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

That's a completely different conversation that I wasn't commenting on though...

Metinks, as dey might say in Ireland, dat we are talking at cross purposes. I was speaking - in a manner - to those who believe we should have not played the 11 players in question and replaced them with the Casey names I mentioned.

There were also the consistent calls throughout the year to replace the players I also mentioned with Casey players. I was implying it wasn't as simple as simply 'blooding' the newbies.

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, Monbon said:

Metinks, as dey might say in Ireland, dat we are talking at cross purposes. I was speaking - in a manner - to those who believe we should have not played the 11 players in question and replaced them with the Casey names I mentioned.

There were also the consistent calls throughout the year to replace the players I also mentioned with Casey players. I was implying it wasn't as simple as simply 'blooding' the newbies.

 

100% mate! I agree with you about simply dropping players for the sake of blooding newbies, I was more on about gradually bringing through some newbies to relieve the physical pressure on the sore/injured players.

[D4Life 2,405]

39 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

To me a JVR on debut would have been better than BB hobling around

JVR @ CHF, a fitter BBB at FF, supposedly he has gone to have knee surgery.

[Willmoy1947 3,971]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'm sure Geelong and Sydney are taking in at least 6-8 injured players tomorrow.

It's a very long season and players are going to be inevitably banged up by September.

That said, i think their, Geelong's,  management process this year, their group being older, was as good as the best.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

14 minutes ago, willmoy said:

That said, i think their, Geelong's,  management process this year, their group being older, was as good as the best.

Yep Geelong was resting players in the last few rounds, meanwhile we had must win games

[Willmoy1947 3,971]

As above, who would have access to the AFL's statistics about player and team injuries/ illnesses individually  and as a team, unless you had someone on the inside letting you know how torrid and heavy player/team loads were going to be?

Presumably the statistics would be available to all Clubs for analysis?

[Deefiant 438]

8 minutes ago, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

Yep Geelong was resting players in the last few rounds, meanwhile we had must win games

I think the must win games itself presents a few problems. In the end we dropped out in straight sets anyway. If we lost some of those must win games but still finish with a more rejuvenated team I think at minimum we wouldve won the first game. 

Instead we played our finals the weeks leading up to the finals and apart from the Brisbane game not at a good rate. I guess hindsight analysis always picks the better option. 

[Willmoy1947 3,971]

3 hours ago, Deefiant said:

I think the must win games itself presents a few problems. In the end we dropped out in straight sets anyway. If we lost some of those must win games but still finish with a more rejuvenated team I think at minimum we wouldve won the first game. 

Instead we played our finals the weeks leading up to the finals and apart from the Brisbane game not at a good rate. I guess hindsight analysis always picks the better option. 

Give or take a demon hating maggot or two

Oops I promised myself .....I'll try again...

[layzie 33,020]

I never liked the idea of Max coming back early. Even when he hinted to coming back for the Adelaide game I thought it was idiotic frankly and the 5 days after that he's back. Needed to heal properly and another week or 2 could have done that. Instead we now hear he wasn't the same and suffered as a result.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,389]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

I never liked the idea of Max coming back early. Even when he hinted to coming back for the Adelaide game I thought it was idiotic frankly and the 5 days after that he's back. Needed to heal properly and another week or 2 could have done that. Instead we now hear he wasn't the same and suffered as a result.

It was absolute amateur hour Layzie by Gawn, the club or a combo of both.

The injury was quoted as 4-6 weeks post Queens Birthday (Rd 13) and he was already talking up a comeback for round 16. He ended up coming back in round 17 V Geelong and played one of his worst games in years.

I really hope the club goes to school on our injury management (or lack thereof) and put a bit more faith in our players at Casey rather than flogging our stars who were clearly injured.

Geelong integrated players from the VFL in the latter rounds and it didn’t hurt them.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,291]

Just finished watching last year’s Grand Final. God it made me smile. What a superb team they are. What a win it was. The joy it brought was curtailed by the fact we couldn’t be in the stands to see it. That is why so many of us wanted to see back to back. However, winning them is bloody hard. Really hard. A lot simply has to go right. 
 

We need to be like Geelong (🤮) and look very carefully at our game plan over the off season. We will be around the mark for a while yet, but we have to address our deficiencies from 2022 to climb the mountain again. There are plenty of areas to work on. Are ball use has to be more brave. We took it through the corridor much more last year. If we are kicking to packs, we simply have to have front and centre representation. It was a really big difference this year to last. We had numbers at the contest. We need a functioning forward line. This is probably the biggest issue, but one that can be easily fixed. Brayshaw should be back on a wing. That may mean targeting another mid to replace him, or giving Dunstan a full preseason shot at making it in the Seniors. 
 

We could have easily won both finals this year, but looked tired and beaten up. As many of pointed out in hindsight, we ran our race too early. The Rd23 game against Brisbane was reminder of how good we can be. We are close, just not close enough this year. Rethink a lot, become the hunters again. Onwards and upwards. 
 

Finally, I hope Sydney [censored] it in tomorrow. Geelong are smug and think it’s in the bag. I’d love to see Scott melting down. I’m saying that, if Papley was to be KO’d before the final siren, it’d bring me much joy. 

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,291]

Just now, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Just finished watching last year’s Grand Final. God it made me smile. What a superb team they are. What a win it was. The joy it brought was curtailed by the fact we couldn’t be in the stands to see it. That is why so many of us wanted to see back to back. However, winning them is bloody hard. Really hard. A lot simply has to go right. 
 

We need to be like Geelong (🤮) and look very carefully at our game plan over the off season. We will be around the mark for a while yet, but we have to address our deficiencies from 2022 to climb the mountain again. There are plenty of areas to work on. Our ball use has to be more brave. We took it through the corridor much more last year. If we are kicking to packs, we simply have to have front and centre representation. It was a really big difference this year to last. We had numbers at the contest in 2021. This year those pack kicks were too easily defended. We need a functioning forward line. This is probably the biggest issue, but one that can be easily fixed. Brayshaw should be back on a wing. That may mean targeting another mid to replace him, or giving Dunstan a full preseason shot at making it in the Seniors. 
 

We could have easily won both finals this year, but looked tired and beaten up. As many of pointed out in hindsight, we ran our race too early. The Rd23 game against Brisbane was reminder of how good we can be. We are close, just not close enough this year. Rethink a lot, become the hunters again. Onwards and upwards. 
 

Finally, I hope Sydney [censored] it in tomorrow. Geelong are smug and think it’s in the bag. I’d love to see Scott melting down. I’m saying that, if Papley was to be KO’d before the final siren, it’d bring me much joy. 

 

[bing181 9,005]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:50 AM, Demon Disciple said:

I lay the blame for the second half of the year squarely on the coaches. I thought our playing group gave their absolute all and admirably left nothing in the tank.

I lay the blame for the second half of the year squarely on the players. I thought they gave their absolute all and admirably left nothing in the tank, but they were cooked and/or carrying injuries.

[Monbon 1,787]

9 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

It was absolute amateur hour Layzie by Gawn, the club or a combo of both.

The injury was quoted as 4-6 weeks post Queens Birthday (Rd 13) and he was already talking up a comeback for round 16. He ended up coming back in round 17 V Geelong and played one of his worst games in years.

I really hope the club goes to school on our injury management (or lack thereof) and put a bit more faith in our players at Casey rather than flogging our stars who were clearly injured.

Geelong integrated players from the VFL in the latter rounds and it didn’t hurt them.

Geelong had a different draw though, and many games at Geelong...

[Monbon 1,787]

13 minutes ago, Monbon said:

Geelong had a different draw though, and many games at Geelong...

And, in passing, I just saw the ladder at the end of the home and away games: crocks and all, heavily weighted Draw, we still finished second with a Percentage of 130.5. Sure, the crocks couldn't get us over the line in the last 2 games: I'd rather praise their valour than veil myself with woe and misery.

[Willmoy1947 3,971]

11 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Just finished watching last year’s Grand Final. God it made me smile. What a superb team they are. What a win it was. The joy it brought was curtailed by the fact we couldn’t be in the stands to see it. That is why so many of us wanted to see back to back. However, winning them is bloody hard. Really hard. A lot simply has to go right. 
 

We need to be like Geelong (🤮) and look very carefully at our game plan over the off season. We will be around the mark for a while yet, but we have to address our deficiencies from 2022 to climb the mountain again. There are plenty of areas to work on. Are ball use has to be more brave. We took it through the corridor much more last year. If we are kicking to packs, we simply have to have front and centre representation. It was a really big difference this year to last. We had numbers at the contest. We need a functioning forward line. This is probably the biggest issue, but one that can be easily fixed. Brayshaw should be back on a wing. That may mean targeting another mid to replace him, or giving Dunstan a full preseason shot at making it in the Seniors. 
 

We could have easily won both finals this year, but looked tired and beaten up. As many of pointed out in hindsight, we ran our race too early. The Rd23 game against Brisbane was reminder of how good we can be. We are close, just not close enough this year. Rethink a lot, become the hunters again. Onwards and upwards. 
 

Finally, I hope Sydney [censored] it in tomorrow. Geelong are smug and think it’s in the bag. I’d love to see Scott melting down. I’m saying that, if Papley was to be KO’d before the final siren, it’d bring me much joy. 

Having followed Garden City back in the sixties I  don't wish any ill will to come to any Papley but I can understand the sentiment. That said he might end up knocking himself out.

I still think we need to use many more players revolving through the team, we set the 42 to do that, didn't we? Why didn't it happen?

[Jaded No More 67,822]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:19 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

 

I was right near the bench for that game and Gawn had more pain killers than touches. 
I just don’t know why we kept pushing so many of our stars throughout the season when they were clearly not ok. 

[bing181 9,005]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

I just don’t know why we kept pushing so many of our stars throughout the season when they were clearly not ok. 

Because even an underperforming Gawn is streets ahead of *checks notes* Sam Weideman. Same goes for the likes of Petracca and Lever and their likely replacements.

There's also the question of structure and team balance: everyone on the field knew how to setup around Max, Lever etc.

Not saying it's an ideal solution either, but with the likes of Tom McDonald and Joel Smith injured and Daw retiring, the cupboard was bare. Just not our year.

[Jaded No More 67,822]

5 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Because even an underperforming Gawn is streets ahead of *checks notes* Sam Weideman. Same goes for the likes of Petracca and Lever and their likely replacements.

There's also the question of structure and team balance: everyone on the field knew how to setup around Max, Lever etc.

Not saying it's an ideal solution either, but with the likes of Tom McDonald and Joel Smith injured and Daw retiring, the cupboard was bare. Just not our year.

I was not referring to finals. We were 10-0 and had West Coast and North back to back. We had ample opportunities to rest players who were not right. 
Lever kept hurting his foot. Salem was never right to return. Gawn rushed back. 
We absolutely could have rucked Jackson and Weideman for 5-6 weeks and given Gawn a proper rest. We could have debuted JVR and given Brown a month off leading into finals. We took risks that in hindsight cost us dearly. 

[Monbon 1,787]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

I was not referring to finals. We were 10-0 and had West Coast and North back to back. We had ample opportunities to rest players who were not right. 
Lever kept hurting his foot. Salem was never right to return. Gawn rushed back. 
We absolutely could have rucked Jackson and Weideman for 5-6 weeks and given Gawn a proper rest. We could have debuted JVR and given Brown a month off leading into finals. We took risks that in hindsight cost us dearly. 

Hindsight, JNM. We wouldn't have finished second had we not won three crucial games: Geelong had the benefit of games up their sleeve, plus many games at Geelong. They also had a dream run with injuries. When injuries hit us like a tempest, life ain't ever going to be easy for selectors or game plan strategists.

[stinga 521]

Geelong and collingwood only two teams not playing multiple injured players in finals.   Same thing with dogs last year.  Having a fit team is everything.