POSTMATCH: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Mel Bourne 4,537]

Just watching the game again (the perks of self employment), and watching Melksham and Hunt’s games, it’s like we’ve been gifted two new gun players. 

Both seem determined to make up for lost opportunities last year, and that mindset combined with red-hot form couldn’t come at a better time. 

Melk should’ve had five if we overlook the rubbish BBB out-of-bounds call in the 3rd. 

Huge games from both of them. 

Now if we can just find Bailey’s on-switch, I feel like we’ve got some much-needed potency up forward. 

[1964_2 2,357]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Look at the vision in first crack last night. Lever was already communicating to his teammates to head into the corridor if we won possession as we had a 3 on 1.

Good to hear.

Question is can we implement a bit of this kind of creativity and attacking style before it gets to desperation stakes? (losing with minutes to go) 

 

[dazzledavey36 55,995]

7 minutes ago, djr said:

Yes, connecting to the forward line is an issue, and it was a problem last year right up until the finals. We are tracking similarly to last year. Due to TMac's absence, we are forced to play only one tall and two mediums in the forward line this year. Goody is experimenting. Melky is playing as a defensive forward and Angus is playing midfield. LJ is spending more time in the ruck and Max is spending more time in the forward half. BBB is there solely to create a contest and to take the opposition's leading back. Trac is also playing more forward than he did last year. Many of these changes have been made in the hope of improving the connection between backs and forwards. Regardless of the results, there has been an improvement over the last few weeks.

We are no where near tracking similar to last year.

This is complete head in sand stuff from you.

Our pressure rating is currently 17th  compared to when we were sitting 2nd this time last year. This is still a significant concern in itself especially coming up against the likes of Sydney and Geelong in a high pressure environment. 

Our ball movement is once again in the bottom end of the scale after it was in the top bracket from rounds 1-10 this year and last year.

This time last year we were coming into the last round having banked 3 wins in a row and our game plan and method was a lot more stable and well structured. All the kinks we had experienced middle part of last year had been ironed out by round 23.

This year we're going into the last round with a record 2-2 from this month alone with still big concerns forward connection and stopping teams get a run on. 

We got beaten around the midfield contests by a team that was missing 3 of the beat starting mids when we should have absolutely smashed them in this area especially having two elite ruckman in tandem. 

I expect a win against Brisbane. But you're kidding yourself if you think our method and game structure is similar to this time last year.

[Traja Dee 108]

2 things I've been thinking about since Saturday night.

Adam Saad got many possessions as a sweeper though he rarely seemed to find a target.  I saw one DL post criticizing Nibbler for not containing Saad better though, whether by accident or not, Saad didn't do much damage (IIRC).

Secondly, having watched the last 2 minutes a few times, I can't help but feel that Carlton botched not 1, not 2 but 3 contested marks. (1 on our HBF when 2 Blues spoiled each other, 1 on our HFF when 3 Blues and BBB resulted in the ball over the boundary line, and Melky's mark in the goal square when he just read the flight better than 3 tall Blues who outnumbered Melky and Lingers and only had to spoil). For the Blues to get 0/3 from these plays was a lucky break for us.  Then again, you can say that they lost their nerve under pressure.  These are just 3 of numerous plays during a 4Q game and I wish I had the time and equipment to study a whole game play by play.  If only we had statistics on this sort of thing.

Talking of statistics, I went looking for Saad's disposal efficiency but found none.  Does anyone have access to this and back up my first statement?

[Kent 2,920]

8 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Melk should’ve had five if we overlook the rubbish BBB out-of-bounds call in the 3rd.

Hey Mel

Can you or anybody explain why the kick didnt count?I was mystified at the time

 

[Demonised 1,373]

8 minutes ago, Traja Dee said:

Talking of statistics, I went looking for Saad's disposal efficiency but found none.  Does anyone have access to this and back up my first statement?

So many dump kicks from him. 

[rpfc 28,966]

10 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

Good to hear.

Question is can we implement a bit of this kind of creativity and attacking style before it gets to desperation stakes? (losing with minutes to go) 

 

You don’t seem to understand - the Carlton players on Hunt and May and another player were down the line (as instructed I am sure in that ‘save game scenario’) so that kind of opportunity in the corridor wouldn’t be there normally.

Our ball movement is a real shame and Hunt is a breath of fresh air. I hope he can spark some overlap run and corridor switches but the FD is obviously concerned with how our defence holds up against turnover so we will play it safe predominately. 

[rpfc 28,966]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

Hey Mel

Can you or anybody explain why the kick didnt count?I was mystified at the time

 

He came into play park where he marked it, meaning he played on outside the line.

Umps got it right. Frustrating and not called sometimes but right.

[Kent 2,920]

Just now, rpfc said:

He came into play park where he marked it, meaning he played on outside the line.

Umps got it right. Frustrating and not called sometimes but right.

Thank you rpfc!!

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

You don’t seem to understand - the Carlton players on Hunt and May and another player were down the line (as instructed I am sure in that ‘save game scenario’) so that kind of opportunity in the corridor wouldn’t be there normally.

Our ball movement is a real shame and Hunt is a breath of fresh air. I hope he can spark some overlap run and corridor switches but the FD is obviously concerned with how our defence holds up against turnover so we will play it safe predominately. 

Ha, please listen to Jake Lever interview this morning. “All teams push extra players behind the ball when they are protecting a lead with not long to go. Therefore it’s critical to find where we have the extra players and kick to them, rather than kick to the out number” 

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. Just mentioning that it is 101 base level AFL understanding, rather than any genius coaching. 
 

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

He came into play park where he marked it, meaning he played on outside the line.

Umps got it right. Frustrating and not called sometimes but right.

Recall the same situation was allowed (once that i saw) in the previous round.

[Mel Bourne 4,537]

13 minutes ago, Kent said:

Hey Mel

Can you or anybody explain why the kick didnt count?I was mystified at the time

 

The best defence offered for that decision was that you’re not allowed to re-enter the play from out of the position you took the mark from.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Mel Bourne

[Kent 2,920]

5 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

The best defence offered for that decision was that you’re not allowed to re-enter the play from out of the position you took the mark from.

 

Hmm   doesnt sound quite right to me You take a mark and you walk back  behind the mark Even if its just 1 or 2 steps, crossing the line for space and its disallowed 

[bobby1554 1,267]

30 minutes ago, Traja Dee said:

2 things I've been thinking about since Saturday night.

Adam Saad got many possessions as a sweeper though he rarely seemed to find a target.  I saw one DL post criticizing Nibbler for not containing Saad better though, whether by accident or not, Saad didn't do much damage (IIRC).

Secondly, having watched the last 2 minutes a few times, I can't help but feel that Carlton botched not 1, not 2 but 3 contested marks. (1 on our HBF when 2 Blues spoiled each other, 1 on our HFF when 3 Blues and BBB resulted in the ball over the boundary line, and Melky's mark in the goal square when he just read the flight better than 3 tall Blues who outnumbered Melky and Lingers and only had to spoil). For the Blues to get 0/3 from these plays was a lucky break for us.  Then again, you can say that they lost their nerve under pressure.  These are just 3 of numerous plays during a 4Q game and I wish I had the time and equipment to study a whole game play by play.  If only we had statistics on this sort of thing.

Talking of statistics, I went looking for Saad's disposal efficiency but found none.  Does anyone have access to this and back up my first statement?

Saad, 19 disposals at 81.8%

[Lord Travis 10,805]

37 minutes ago, Traja Dee said:

Talking of statistics, I went looking for Saad's disposal efficiency but found none.  Does anyone have access to this and back up my first statement?

18 kicks for 7 turnovers. He just kept banging it long down the line to no effect and his poor decision making was a key reason we won IMO. Blues looked far more dangerous when others in the team were rebounding through the middle or switched the play. Stats back it up to as Saad was only involved in 3 scoring chains, so the Blues scored when others were linking up instead.
Very overrated player and not worthy of AA HBF as the media is touting. Looks flash running and bouncing often, but his disposal and impact on games is often poor for his team.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Lord Travis

[Traja Dee 108]

10 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Saad, 19 disposals at 81.8%

 

3 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

18 kicks for 7 turnovers. He just kept banging it long down the line to no effect and his poor decision making was a key reason we won IMO. Blues looked far more dangerous when others in the team were rebounding through the middle or switched the play. Stats back it up to as Saad was only involved in 3 scoring chains, so the Blues scored when others were linking up instead.
Very overrated player and not worthy of AA HBF as the media is touting. Looks flash running and bouncing often, but his disposal and impact on games is often poor for his team.

Thanks Bobby and Lord.  I don't see how you get to 81.8% when dividing 12 into 19 (i.e. (19-7)/19 = 63%).  Maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of Disposal Efficiency.

As a sweeper, Saad just didn't feel anywhere near as potent as Salem, Rich or Caleb Daniel.

[Lord Travis 10,805]

3 minutes ago, Traja Dee said:

 

Thanks Bobby and Lord.  I don't see how you get to 81.8% when dividing 12 into 19 (i.e. (19-7)/19 = 63%).  Maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of Disposal Efficiency.

As a sweeper, Saad just didn't feel anywhere near as potent as Salem, Rich or Caleb Daniel.

I was confused too, as the stats on the AFL app have to be incorrect. It’s impossible as those numbers don’t add up! But regardless, Saad was definitely ineffective and his poor decision making was a key reason we were able to win. 

[Mel Bourne 4,537]

29 minutes ago, Kent said:

Hmm   doesnt sound quite right to me You take a mark and you walk back  behind the mark Even if its just 1 or 2 steps, crossing the line for space and its disallowed 

Yeah I should note, this was the reason being touted by the commentators, but they were not exactly sounding confident. 

[Guest]

[1964_2 2,357]

4 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Do we organise Maysie to take J.Smith, Chandler, Weid, JVR, Laurie, Hunt to Entrecôte and see how many more match winners he can develop? 

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We are no where near tracking similar to last year.

This is complete head in sand stuff from you.

Our pressure rating is currently 17th  compared to when we were sitting 2nd this time last year. This is still a significant concern in itself especially coming up against the likes of Sydney and Geelong in a high pressure environment. 

Our ball movement is once again in the bottom end of the scale after it was in the top bracket from rounds 1-10 this year and last year.

This time last year we were coming into the last round having banked 3 wins in a row and our game plan and method was a lot more stable and well structured. All the kinks we had experienced middle part of last year had been ironed out by round 23.

This year we're going into the last round with a record 2-2 from this month alone with still big concerns forward connection and stopping teams get a run on. 

We got beaten around the midfield contests by a team that was missing 3 of the beat starting mids when we should have absolutely smashed them in this area especially having two elite ruckman in tandem. 

I expect a win against Brisbane. But you're kidding yourself if you think our method and game structure is similar to this time last year.

I didnt see the first half so happy to stand corrected, but It didn't seem to help that eight of our regulars appeared to have either fairly ordinary games or worse.  Some not as bad as others but they were all off a little it seemed.  And Lever was off this year's level as well, which was already well off his 2021 levels!

Jackson, JJ, ANB, Lever, Sparrow, Spargo, Ed & Fritta.  Plus no Macca.

You can cover maybe two, possibly even three having a pretty off game.  How the hec we covered eight is a miracle.

The break can't come soon enough me thinks.  Hope Goody doesn't over work / thrash them on the track this week. 

Maybe one full hit out then focussing on general skills, pressure inside 50 as well as connection/craft/finishing work around the sticks for the other session/s (including a ban on bombing it to the left pocket!).  Big emphasis on quick transistion, switching, then bringing the ball back on the angles to the top of a more open goal square or fat side leads.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[djr 1,605]

25 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We are no where near tracking similar to last year.

This is complete head in sand stuff from you.

Our pressure rating is currently 17th  compared to when we were sitting 2nd this time last year. This is still a significant concern in itself especially coming up against the likes of Sydney and Geelong in a high pressure environment. 

Our ball movement is once again in the bottom end of the scale after it was in the top bracket from rounds 1-10 this year and last year.

This time last year we were coming into the last round having banked 3 wins in a row and our game plan and method was a lot more stable and well structured. All the kinks we had experienced middle part of last year had been ironed out by round 23.

This year we're going into the last round with a record 2-2 from this month alone with still big concerns forward connection and stopping teams get a run on. 

We got beaten around the midfield contests by a team that was missing 3 of the beat starting mids when we should have absolutely smashed them in this area especially having two elite ruckman in tandem. 

I expect a win against Brisbane. But you're kidding yourself if you think our method and game structure is similar to this time last year.

I stated in my thread that we do have forward connection issues, as we did at this time last year. In that context we are tracking similar to 2021.

In terms of pressure, you're saying that you haven't been impressed with our pressure over the last three weeks. Those matches were played at a frantic finals pace. You then assume that because we had three wins in a row coming into the final round last year, we are far better prepared. So, who did we play against? 3 bottom sides, Suns, Eagles and Crows. We almost lost the Eagles game. This year we have played 3 finals teams and won 2 out of 3 with Collingwood just getting over the line against us. I will argue that this is a far better preparation than last year.

The clearance stat is meaningless. Last year we lost the clearance count against the Crows and broke even against the Eagles.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

12 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Maybe one full hit out then focussing on general skills, pressure inside 50 as well as connection/craft/finishing work around the sticks for the other session/s (including a ban on bombing it to the left pocket!).  Big emphasis on quick transistion, switching, then bringing the ball back on the angles to the top of a more open goal square or fat side leads.

Applied for the North or Essendon gigs? 😇

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Applied for the North or Essendon gigs? 😇

Haha...I would walk in and be thrown out wiithin 30 seconds!  Then again, not that different to some of their recent coaches!

[DeelightfulPlay 2,694]

8 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I find it extremely hard to believe that we have gone 22 rounds with this same set up to then completely transform into a whole new set up.

I understand your point in thinking, but are we leaving this way too late in the season now?

Yeah I just can't see us even tinkering it all of a sudden for finals.

...

I watched Sydney yesterday and their defensive discipline is very impressive. Scared to think we'll just play it straight into their hands if we meet them first week of finals.

Oh completely agree!  I think maybe the occasional change up when the opportunity presents itself would be the most we could do.  

Based on @The heart beats true's post about Lever's radio interview... seems even more unlikely to happen unless the boys go rogue in special circumstances!

Also feeling a bit sick at the prospect of playing into Sydney's hands...