Deflection

[Jaded No More 68,972]

I thought it might be a good idea to deflect, and take the heat off our footy club for a minute by turning our heads to the west.

I'm sure it comes as no big surprise to read that there has been a big fall-out following the derby over in Perth. Who would have guessed it, two teams with zero discipline or accountability for their actions going head to head in the fishbowl that is Western Australian footy, and causing problems.

The most disturbing story to come out of the game though, is surely the Selwood sledging.

Now before we go any further, it has to be made clear that this is yet to be proven and we won't know for sure until tomorrow night whether or not this stuff was said, although all evidence suggest that this indeed took place.

Surely though, it has got to be one of the lowest acts of sledging we've heard on a footy field.

For those who haven't heard it, the story goes that Selwood apperantly made sexually explicit remarks about Des Headland's six year old daughter. That's right, she's six, and Selwood was claiming to have had intercourse with her, except he didn't word it so politely.

I'm no prude, and of course every player will try and get stuck into his opponent with a bit of sledging, but what sort of human being resorts to abusing a child who is in no way involved in the game? It may be unfair to blame the club for this, but it's another one for the book of 'Eagles' players behaving like immature tools'.

I hope that just as Headland is about to spend significant time on the sidelines (as he should btw), that if proven true, Selwood joins him.

There has got to be a clear line which players should not cross. It's unacceptable when it's racial, and it's unacceptable if it involves attacking innocent children and making explicit remarks.

And as a side note, West Coast may be a hugely successful club on the field, but their players and the way that team is managed is extremely poor. There is no accountability from players or from the board, and because they go unpunished they continue to act as if they untouchable and as if they can do as they please.

[occo 2]

Innocent until proven guilty

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

Absolute storm in a teacup.

Jaded I don't blame you for feeling that way, but having never played footy you probably don't know what's said out there each week. Stupid comments are said all the time. They are just an immature way to test a player and put him off. The good, mentally strong players wouldn't react and wouldn't care about such a stupid comment by Selwood.

There are comments that cross the line. Racial abuse, for example, cannot be tolerated.

But this is a stock-standard occurrence in footy. Headland shouldn't have taken the comments personally, because Selwood was just talking rubbish to try to distract him. IMO it wasn't malicious and Headland shouldn't have been sucked in.

[beelzebub 23,382]

There are comments that cross the line. Racial abuse, for example, cannot be tolerated.

am curious...why should racial remarks be off limits..and disgusting remarks about a little girl not ?

[Johnny Karate 559]

I think it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup.

Headland is a headcase. His reaction was way over the top, if he was smart he would've kept his emotions in check during the game and if he was still incensed by what Selwood had allegedly said he would've made a formal complaint to match officials and the AFL after the game. Instead he's trying to use it to vindicate his concious decision to act like a complete [censored] for the remainder of the game and post match.

IIRC the AFL did nothing 3 years ago when Montgomery made some disgusting comments to Ramanauskas, without knowing anything about Headland's daughters health situation, - I'd say Montgomery makes Selwood the trash talker seem like a choir boy.

When I was playing footy at a local level I used to hear some terrible things about my mother, sister etc. You just have to learn to ignore it. Sad but true.

[beelzebub 23,382]

have no doubt lots of very crudy things are said..and for various reasons...just curious why anything is off limits.....i mean..how do you draw lines

[Johnny Karate 559]

But this is a stock-standard occurrence in footy. Headland shouldn't have taken the comments personally, because Selwood was just talking rubbish to try to distract him. IMO it wasn't malicious and Headland shouldn't have been sucked in.

Agreed it's more or less an extension of a "You're mum is..." crack.

Headland shouldn't have been sucked in and I think it's rather pathetic that he is using this to try and minimise his thoroughly deserved suspension.

[QueenC 74]

I tend to agree with you Slander.....

If he said what it has been alleged that he said (& I hope that made sense), then it was a bloody awful thing to say and should never be condoned.

But how many truly god awful things get said on a footy field during a match? And in the future are all these god awful things going to get sent to the tribunal for evaluation, especially when a player retaliates and gets himself into (big) trouble.

Headland was an easy target, and has proved exactly why.

If the AFL think, and can prove, what was allegedly said then fine him, officially warn him and move on.

[Johnny Karate 559]

am curious...why should racial remarks be off limits..and disgusting remarks about a little girl not ?

For starters racial vilification is against the law in many states. Anyway most players who have been racially vilified in my experience have done so with class. Winmar's gesture to the Vic Park ferals was classic and Michael Long made an official complaint. Even Chris Lewis who was always a bit of a loose cannon and would've put up with more than most didn't go as insane as Headland on the weekend IIRC.

It may seem an oxymoron but to me attacking someone on the basis of their race or culture is a lot more personal than silly little primary school cracks about "Your mum, your sister, your family" etc.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

A guy called up on SEN about this and was brave enough to take the other side of the debate from you Jaded. I thought at first I was ready to call up myself and have the guy banned from radio stations, but what he said made a lot of sense...

First let me paint the picture...

One bloke, who sounded like he had the IQ of a teapot, came on. He grunted something along the lines of "I play footy, and I have tattoos of my kids, and I always say to guys at training that if they say anything about my kids, I'll thump them." Doran then went on to ask what happens in games, to which he replied "If they bring up my kids, I warn them once that it's not on, and if they continue, I thump them."

I couldn't help but feel then that that was all a bit ridiculous. Some pretty terrible things are said on footy fields, and everyone on them, umps included, understand that in just about every case, if the players find something about their opposition that they can use against them, to try and get their mind off the game, they will use it. If I come on the field and asked some guy if it was his kids in the tattoo on his arm, he said yes, then I told them how ugly they were, I'd expect him to crack it, but try and punish me in the game. If he turned and started swinging away, I'd immediately come to the conclusion that he was LOOKING for something to fight about. In a sense it's not about his kids, it's about his own wounded pride. My words may be considered immature, but no less mature than the actions of the bloke I'm trying to unsettle.

So then another bloke, who claims to have played a lot of footy, comes on and takes the tack that when you're picked on by opposition players, it's best to either hurt them on the scoreboard, or fight words with words. His suggestion was for Headland to have said "You reckon you did that eh? So you're what... A paedophile? What would your Mum/Girlfriend/Sister say about that? I'll ask her next time..." You get the picture...

It's clear to anyone with even a slight understanding of the game that Selwood was only trying to get under his skin, and he crossed the line. IMO he should be suspended so we keep that sort of talk from EVER seeing the light of day again, but people should really realise that worse is said on the field, and in all but only a few cases players understand that it's just words meant to upset a player. In all likelihood, when it occurred to Selwood to spout that filth he probably thought "This is too far out for Headland to actually believe, but it may effect him enough for me to take his mind off the ball."

I think we'll find a press conference will come up pretty soon in which Selwood will say he's deeply sorry for saying what he said, and that he hopes Headland and his daughter may find it within themselves to forgive him, that he won't do it again blah blah blah.... And most importantly he'll find himself explaining for the rest of his career that the ONLY reason he opened his mouth was because he knew it would upset Des... Simple really. Punish him, but let's call a spade a spade as we do it.

[astrodee 0]

I've played senior country footy, U19's, and TFL, and said and heard cracks about mothers and sisters etc. I also have daughters. This was a crude and beyond the pale statement about a criminal act - paedophilia - to a 6 year old girl, and those of you who think a line hasn't been crossed are totally unaware, and you should have a long, hard look at yourselves. I've got into fights at AFL games with other spectators who've made racist remarks about players, a former president of our club etc. What Selwood said, if true, rates equally with racism - and should not be tolerated. He should receive counselling and be heavily sanctioned.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

It may seem an oxymoron but to me attacking someone on the basis of their race or culture is a lot more personal than silly little primary school cracks about "Your mum, your sister, your family" etc.

Spot on IMO. Without knowing more about any possible health issues with Headland's daughter, the comments just seem like a throw-away line that could be said to anyone. There's no truth to them whatsoever and Headland's reaction was completely disproportionate.

[astrodee 0]

What I meant was if he said it he should...

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

This was a crude and beyond the pale statement about a criminal act

So would your reaction be the same if a player said to his opponent, "if you get another touch I'll knock your head off"?

Assault is a criminal act too.

These types of comments are said all the time.

[Johnny Karate 559]

So would your reaction be the same if a player said to his opponent, "if you get another touch I'll knock your head off"?

Assault is a criminal act too.

These types of comments are said all the time.

True.

Apparently M.Voss used to threaten to kill rookies, debutants, young players etc. on the opposition teams as a form of intimidation.

It isn't nice but it's all about how you react to it.

[astrodee 0]

No. I've been assaulted on the footy field and given out a few - got suspended for 8 weeks once. You are trivialising this with your innanities. I have absolutely no doubt that if he's found guilty he'll cop a heavy sanction. And so he should. Do YOU have a daughter?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I admire your priciples astro, and in all honesty I agree with the principle of punishing Selwood for this act. But it's worth keeping in mind that, according to ch. 9 reports the conversation went something along the lines of...

"See her? I blanked her"

"that's my daughter, and she's six!"

"...Yeah, she's a blank"

Now you can say one of two things here. Firstly, the fact that once her age was established, Selwood should have walked. Secondly, Selwood didn't even know who it was on his arm, or how old the person was, or when the tattoo was made... etc etc.

The age factor is what makes this appalling. And for that alone this is being taken very seriously, as it should.

The worst thing about it is not that Des has been offended, (they're big boys and I'm sure had this been kept behind closed doors Selwood would apologise) but that this low act has been seen by 6 year old girls everywhere, and their Mums, and their impressionable sons...

This is an absolute nightmare for the image of the game, and one Adam may never wake from.

[astrodee 0]

Exactly. It was the last alleged statement Selwood made that, if true, damns him.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I find it surprising how much of this thread addresses Headland's behaviour. The issue is not how Headland responded, it's about what Selwood supposedly said.

I don't want to support a game where things like what were supposedly said are tolerated! I'd be upset to hear my own team mate say something like that. It's far worse than geting in trouble for being drunk in public during the summer break - and look what team mates did about that.

There are some things more important than football.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Just so we're clear, I don't condone Headland's reaction. He should have known better than to attack Selwood and cost his team 6 weeks of his services.

But as someone else said, this is not about Headland's reaction, which was silly to the extreme, it's about what caused it.

I'm also not suggesting that it wasn't a throw-away line by Selwood, which is no doubt a common thing that happens when you're out there playing footy.

But where do you draw the line?

If it's not ok to attack people based on their religion or race, why is it ok to attack children and make sexual comments about them?

It may be a storm in a tea-cup, or a way for Headland to try and justify his stupid reaction, but if Selwood really did make these comments, then I can't say I feel sorry for the abuse he's about to cop.

I don't have kids, but if anyone came up to me and said things of a sexual nature about my younger cousins, or any of the kids I look after, I'd be tempted to thump them too. Why is it necessary to bring innocent kids into the equation I will never know.

Surely there are plenty of sledges to go around.

[Jarka 767]

I'm appalled that a young player like Selwood could even think up a sledge like this, I've also played a bit of footy like alot of people here and it's easily the most revolting thing that I've ever heard. Perhaps it's because my wife is almost eight months pregnant with our first child, but the implications of a sledge like that are, well.... dire.

That's my own personal view and it's irrelevant, but in reality the damage done to Selwood's reputation and image is far greater than any sanction the AFL will impose on him. He will always be known as the deviant who said "I [censored] your six year old daughter."

I wonder what Selwood's parents are thinking right now.....

[grazman 7,451]

The actual sledge aside (although what do think might happen the next time that Headland takes the field - NO ONE TALK ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER)

The real issue here for me is how the Dockers are handling this.... Sure a player expects a club to support them, but for God's sake this will be the third Big suspension for the Dockers before round four. Discipline starts at the top and it starts by not making excuses. Get paid a professional wage, how about you earn it!

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

I can see where those that say this is a throw away line are coming from but those views are baised on your own personal culture, values and beliefs. Personally I think mothers and sisters are fair game but daughters and children are a bit hard to stomach. But again this is baised on how I see things.

Whilst many non-indigenous australians have no problem with silly remarks such as those made by selwood, many indigenous people like headland would become very incenced by this as respect for family is a strong ethic in their culture. Without having a true appreciation for the value placed on family by indigenous people (its often all they have) you might not understand Headlands reaction.

I do not condone his reaction in any way and he should be sanctioned for it (at least for round 4 anyway ) I equally think he or his daughter shouldnt be insulted in such a way and having an understanding of indigenous culture I can see how he became so upset.

As if our game doesnt have enough image problems at the moment...

[Brocky For President 0]

ive learnt that if some1 is giving u s@#t on the footy feild about ur mom or sister just agree with them even if u dont and almost straight away they will stop saying stuff about them

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

No. I've been assaulted on the footy field and given out a few - got suspended for 8 weeks once. You are trivialising this with your innanities. I have absolutely no doubt that if he's found guilty he'll cop a heavy sanction. And so he should. Do YOU have a daughter?

He'll only cop something because the AFL are very public conscious and don't want to be seen as not doing anything about it.

I don't think I'm trivialising it. How about this line, "if you get another touch, I'll kill you"? Players say this kind of stuff all the time.

So where does a threat to kill rank on your scale? The fact of the matter is such comments are taken for what they are, stupid remarks to put you off your game. They don't mean anything. It doesn't mean the player will actually kill you if you get another touch. And just the same, it doesn't mean Headland's daughter is a s---. How can she be, she's only 6!!