2 hours ago, kev martin said:

Don't agree, he gets plenty of looks at it. When he has a close job on his opponent, he gets the ball off them. When he has no close opponent he is still in there getting the ball.

My problem with him is, the decision making. Often, he takes "them on" too much, trying to break tackles or his timing puts pressure on himself or the receiver. Needs to speed up and leave less margin for errors. Would be good if he ran or delivers to space when he has the ball (not alone in that area). A few need to be smarter when they have the ball.

Agree with this. Vines can be a match winner or can turn the momentum our way when he is going. He also has a great connection with Gawn, give him time.

Gawny is very flexible because of his marking ability. With a proper tall at full forward he can offer an extra tall in there, or play that defensive keep it in the attacking 50 game, or support the backline when needed. Play him everywhere. 

The small forward line isn’t working. We aren't smart enough to lower our eyes and kick to advantage. Bring in a stay at home tall.

Not sure we have a like for like Hibbs replacement, Maynard retired. Possibly AVB, but they may be setting him as a mid.

Wrong Maynard bud.

we are poaching the collingwood version end of year. 

6 hours ago, CYB said:

I noticed this as well but it’s a 5m radius protected zone. They were still within 5 metres  though but not by much.

the running through the mark protected zone is so inconsistently  adjudicated but I’d rather it not be paid unless absolutely obvious.

 

That's not correct.   It's 10m 

10 hours ago, loges said:

Be careful  what you wish for. You can see it coming a mile away. Port great front runners.

Mmm, believe me my preference is for our stars to hit form and demolish the bastards ?!!!

48 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

That's not correct.   It's 10m 

I just looked it up and it does say 10 I always thought it was from one side to the other but it appears to 10m radius.

if that’s the case then that is absolutely diabolical because it was nowhere near 10m. Away from the kicker. 

It was really great to get back to a live game at the Gee but we started so poorly it gave GWS a lot of early confidence and they kicked a couple of easy goals and we’re able to repel our forward entries in a similar manner to what we we are used to doing to the opposition. We were sitting on the dead wing opposite the MCC and didn’t see much action as the game seemed to be played on that side off the ground. Even when we had Langdon and several other players free the team ignored them and continued to play down the opposite wing. Where was our aggression and hard working DNA team first selfless winning ways. When we finally came out of the slumber we sprayed the ball around which further lowered the morale of the team. 
It was really, really cold and hard to stay focussed and doubly disappointing when we failed to take advantage of nearly all our opportunities. Thanks Fritsch’y st least you kicked straight and I really hate the Giants song and had it ringing in my ears all the way out of the stadium surrounded by a lot of sad looking fellow supporters. I really felt gutted and sad for another lost opportunity that would help us achieve something special in the footy world. Come on  you Dee players get your act together you have to kick the easy ones that is your job. Please do not serve up that rubbish again in 2021.

8 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Hi All, 

It’s not helpful to panic or over-react to a loss, and you can’t win every week unfortunately. Having said this, it is important to learn from a day like yesterday. 

I couldn’t be happier with this year, and the clear improvement choco, Yze, goody and the players have delivered. But, we do still appear to be slow to learn. I will summarise my thoughts below, and interested in any views, agree or otherwise. (Apologies for duplication, as I am sure you would have covered much of this)

James Harmes:

 Is a tagger + nothing else. This is a player, that appears to get too happy with himself at times, and unfortunately is not smart enough to play a half-fwd flank, or wing. So if there is no tagging job for a game, then he should be playing VFL - especially as we have many similar players to him (but a bit smarter). 

Viney:

let’s not panic here. If it takes Danger a month to get back to his best from a similar length injury, then we can give Jack 4 weeks before we start calling for his head. 

Petracca/Oliver:

not at their best yesterday, but we can’t be a team that relies on them dominating to get a win. 

May/Lever:

Thankyou to whoever’s decision it was to chase them - we are nothing without them. 

Petty:

seamless replacement for Tomlinson. Reliable + compliments May/Lever. 

Kozzy/Spargo/ANB:

kozzy needs a rest, a clear coaching error to not identify this. The three of them have been critical all year, but at least 1 of them does need to play a strong offensive game, to compliment the defensive pressure they bring most weeks. A good coaching move to identify that they were off yest, and try Hunt fwd. it nearly won us the game. 

Gawn:

when not ruck, I think he provides most value a kick behind the play on wings/defence. When another key fwd (Brown/Weid) finally stands up, we will obviously have this luxury.

Brown/Weid:

it couldn’t have been more obvious last week against the Dons, that we needed another key target inside 50. Clearly they decided to take too much comfort from the win, rather than addressing weaknesses. I am concerned with Weid, and his ability to have a presence at AFL level. Please Ben Brown, step up and regain your status as one of the comp’s best full fwd’s. 

Fritsch:

wish he wasn’t so selfish, but has a key role in the team + will benefit when Brown finally steps up. 

TMac:

don’t change a thing. He is not our inside 50 target. He is our CHF that exploits his opponents lack of fitness by leading all the way up to half back flank. Will also benefit when key inside 50 target steps up. 

Jackson:

give him the rising star, and sign him for 4 years. Will be a top 5 player in the competition in future years. 

Salem: 

half-back flank, and key cog in defence. Don’t mess with the things that are working. 

Hibberd:

amazing that he is playing his best footy at this age. And let’s hope we have Maynard ready to play the same role next year.

Jordon/Sparrow:

Keep playing them (especially Jordon). They are the future + I am not sure potential replacements such as AVB + Melksham add more to the team. 

Langdon/Brayshaw: 

don’t change a thing. See above re don’t mess with things that are working. 

Rivers/Hunt:

Riv a future star of the comp. Hunt - a great role player this year (although execution was off yest) 

 

keep the faith demons supporters. It’s a tough time of the year. Goody - Learn from yesterday, tinker and address the deficiencies, smash Port, then the season is well and truly on track. 

 

This is one of the best posts I've read in a while and certainly after such a disappointment loss. Thanks for the great balance of positivity/learnings, because they need to go hand in hand for meaningful progress.

3 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

This is precisely what we must not do.

We are where we are because we have developed understanding of roles and of each other. Losing doesn't mean starting again.

Daw isn't going to solve our forward problems, he's been playing ruck at Casey. Smith's playing defence at Casey.

This much change will make us worse. Selection goal this week is a few strategic personnel changes but the far more important goal is to ensure the 19-20 other blokes who hold their spot improve on the mistakes they were making.

This is rubbish, utter rubbish.

We're generating plenty of ball inside 50, we're indeed generating enough scoring shots. This isn't a problem of us not being able or willing to move the ball forward (a comparison is Collingwood, a side which actively prefers slow and sideways movement).

This is a problem of us falling down at the final two hurdles - finding a suitable target inside 50, and straight kicking for goal.

At no point did I say we are not trying to move the ball forward. It’s actually being slowed because we look up and our forward line is between half forward and the wing. We are either then forced to slow it or we bomb to their outnumber or we are forced to hold it up until our forwards (and their backs) make their way down there. 

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-danger-holds-destiny-franklin-s-little-buddy-dee-minus-for-mids-20210704-p586qo.html

Michael Gleeson nails us here. 10 marks inside 50, compared to 6 for the Giants - so when we get the ball forward someone is there. Smashed at stoppage and clearance is the problem.

Midfielders getting beaten. I really do think it’s that simple.

11 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Hi All, 

It’s not helpful to panic or over-react to a loss, and you can’t win every week unfortunately. Having said this, it is important to learn from a day like yesterday. 

I couldn’t be happier with this year, and the clear improvement choco, Yze, goody and the players have delivered. But, we do still appear to be slow to learn. I will summarise my thoughts below, and interested in any views, agree or otherwise. (Apologies for duplication, as I am sure you would have covered much of this)

James Harmes:

 Is a tagger + nothing else. This is a player, that appears to get too happy with himself at times, and unfortunately is not smart enough to play a half-fwd flank, or wing. So if there is no tagging job for a game, then he should be playing VFL - especially as we have many similar players to him (but a bit smarter). 

Viney:

let’s not panic here. If it takes Danger a month to get back to his best from a similar length injury, then we can give Jack 4 weeks before we start calling for his head. 

Petracca/Oliver:

not at their best yesterday, but we can’t be a team that relies on them dominating to get a win. 

May/Lever:

Thankyou to whoever’s decision it was to chase them - we are nothing without them. 

Petty:

seamless replacement for Tomlinson. Reliable + compliments May/Lever. 

Kozzy/Spargo/ANB:

kozzy needs a rest, a clear coaching error to not identify this. The three of them have been critical all year, but at least 1 of them does need to play a strong offensive game, to compliment the defensive pressure they bring most weeks. A good coaching move to identify that they were off yest, and try Hunt fwd. it nearly won us the game. 

Gawn:

when not ruck, I think he provides most value a kick behind the play on wings/defence. When another key fwd (Brown/Weid) finally stands up, we will obviously have this luxury.

Brown/Weid:

it couldn’t have been more obvious last week against the Dons, that we needed another key target inside 50. Clearly they decided to take too much comfort from the win, rather than addressing weaknesses. I am concerned with Weid, and his ability to have a presence at AFL level. Please Ben Brown, step up and regain your status as one of the comp’s best full fwd’s. 

Fritsch:

wish he wasn’t so selfish, but has a key role in the team + will benefit when Brown finally steps up. 

TMac:

don’t change a thing. He is not our inside 50 target. He is our CHF that exploits his opponents lack of fitness by leading all the way up to half back flank. Will also benefit when key inside 50 target steps up. 

Jackson:

give him the rising star, and sign him for 4 years. Will be a top 5 player in the competition in future years. 

Salem: 

half-back flank, and key cog in defence. Don’t mess with the things that are working. 

Hibberd:

amazing that he is playing his best footy at this age. And let’s hope we have Maynard ready to play the same role next year.

Jordon/Sparrow:

Keep playing them (especially Jordon). They are the future + I am not sure potential replacements such as AVB + Melksham add more to the team. 

Langdon/Brayshaw: 

don’t change a thing. See above re don’t mess with things that are working. 

Rivers/Hunt:

Riv a future star of the comp. Hunt - a great role player this year (although execution was off yest) 

 

keep the faith demons supporters. It’s a tough time of the year. Goody - Learn from yesterday, tinker and address the deficiencies, smash Port, then the season is well and truly on track. 

 

Great post very balanced and good observations. Way better than all the nitpickers and wrist slashers on here.

We have been so far off the pace for the last 20 years and have been the joke of the competition. These days were out of debt, dont want the coach sacked and weve lost 3 games this year by a combined total of 27pts! Credit to the team where credit is due. We probably wont win the flag but so what. We are at least in the game now every week and finally have a top side that can beat anyone and we will be good for a few years to come yet.

Hardly the end of the world.

5 hours ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Great post very balanced and good observations. Way better than all the nitpickers and wrist slashers on here.

. We probably wont win the flag but so what. We are at least in the game now every week and finally have a top side that can beat anyone and we will be good for a few years to come yet.

Hardly the end of the world.

Yeah WTF its only been 57 years

9 hours ago, CYB said:

I just looked it up and it does say 10 I always thought it was from one side to the other but it appears to 10m radius.

if that’s the case then that is absolutely diabolical because it was nowhere near 10m. Away from the kicker. 

So frustrating the umps don't know and enforce this

10 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-danger-holds-destiny-franklin-s-little-buddy-dee-minus-for-mids-20210704-p586qo.html

Michael Gleeson nails us here. 10 marks inside 50, compared to 6 for the Giants - so when we get the ball forward someone is there. Smashed at stoppage and clearance is the problem.

Midfielders getting beaten. I really do think it’s that simple.

Yes Gleeson asks what’s changed in the midfield from the first 12 rounds to the last 3? The personnel are the same but I think both Tracc and Oliver have dropped off about 20% and Gawn slightly. Is it just workrate? Perhaps we don’t bat deep enough in the midfield to match it with the better teams.  We lack a centre clearance specialist it seems. I thought Yze would really give us a boost in that area this year but we have gone backwards. 

17 hours ago, Redleg said:

Perhaps if his team mates gave him a forward option or told him he was “hot”it might have worked out a bit differently on those occasions.

I dunno, catch me holding the ball in the forward 50 once - shame on me.

catch me holding the ball in the forward 50 twice - shame on me

catch me holding the ball in the forward 50 thrice....shame on me

34 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes Gleeson asks what’s changed in the midfield from the first 12 rounds to the last 3? The personnel are the same but I think both Tracc and Oliver have dropped off about 20% and Gawn slightly. Is it just workrate? Perhaps we don’t bat deep enough in the midfield to match it with the better teams.  We lack a centre clearance specialist it seems. I thought Yze would really give us a boost in that area this year but we have gone backwards. 

Petraccas disposal is pretty dire at times.  Happy to get rack up the touches but not accountable. 

I thought Gawn started the second half with real intent, which looked inspirational from the stands.  Maybe he needs to come out punching everything from the 1st bounce from now on?

19 hours ago, D Rev said:

Those caught with the ball in the forward 50 three times in a row aren't having a crack, they're having a brain fade.

if there was a decent forward making space he would have kicked it earlier

our forwards stood still like trees

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes Gleeson asks what’s changed in the midfield from the first 12 rounds to the last 3? The personnel are the same but I think both Tracc and Oliver have dropped off about 20% and Gawn slightly. Is it just workrate? Perhaps we don’t bat deep enough in the midfield to match it with the better teams.  We lack a centre clearance specialist it seems. I thought Yze would really give us a boost in that area this year but we have gone backwards. 

I agree. To me centre clearance work is all about tactics. They are set plays similar to those found in basketball and American Football. We need to have a toolkit that can be trained and drilled into the extended centre clearance team. We have possibly the best trio combination in Gawn, Oliver and Trac in the comp and we are not exploiting this advantage nowhere near enough.

Watching a number of games yesterday - in particular North vs Doggies and the centre clearance dominance that North had against the Doggies was astounding. They had very clean exits with Cunnington and Goldstein and others - at one stage they had 4 goals to 1 from centre clerances.

It seems that when we win the centre clearance its mostly under pressure resulting in a bomb kick into the fwd 50. In the odd chance we win with a clean exit it very rarely results in a kick into space onto a leading forward. This is not about skills and talent - you cold draft and trade all the talent in the world and it would not matter. Its about coaching, discipline and strategy - something i thought Yze would be on top of. Maybe he needs more time to adjust to our gameplan and implementing centre clearance tactics mid-season may not be easy given all of the other instructions that the players are getting regarding defensive structure, ball use etc. 

Our foundations in defensive structure is set. We need to sort out and exploit our centre clearance potential and forward 50 connection. Until then, i think it will be difficult to contend in the finals. Im still half glass full and have to remind myself 12-3 is nowhere near where i had us during pre-season.