COVID & AFL 2021

[binman 42,605]

6 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I am all for incentivising people to get vaccinated, but while our supply is so critically low, you simply can't punish people for the mistakes of the federal government.

I am under 40. I don't think I should be punished because it is very hard for me to get access to any vaccine, even AZ, and I also shouldn't be punished for following the overwhelming health advice re: age, and I also shouldn't be punished for wanting to leave the AZ stocks we do have to people who are at higher risk than I am who are currently eligible for it and should rightly get it before I do. 

Why would having an area put aside for people who had been vaccinated, or giving them free tickets, punish you (or anyone who, for whatever reason, is not vaccinated)? 

Edited July 19, 2021 by binman

[Superunknown 4,210]

31 minutes ago, binman said:

One relatively easy option would be to have one stand for fully vaccinated people only.

Of course there are some technical issues (and maybe some ethical ones), but lets say at the G to get a ticket in the  Ponsford you have provide your vaccine digital certificate identifier.

You would still need to have all the systems in place (eg masks etc), but that group of people would be at very low risk of catching it or transmitting it to each other. Not no risk, but acceptably low. And if they did get it they are unlikely to get crook. 

 

 

The data on vaccinated groups catching Delta (citation required: infected-vaccinated by age decile/comordities) is not good. Lots of vaccinated people appear to be getting it, and transmitting it.

I don't know what the risk is vis a vis viral load/transmissability of those vaccinated, but I'd be concerned enough.

Doesn't mean it's not a good idea re: lower risk...

 

[Superunknown 4,210]

23 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I am all for incentivising people to get vaccinated, but while our supply is so critically low, you simply can't punish people for the mistakes of the federal government.

I am under 40. I don't think I should be punished because it is very hard for me to get access to any vaccine, even AZ, and I also shouldn't be punished for following the overwhelming health advice re: age, and I also shouldn't be punished for wanting to leave the AZ stocks we do have to people who are at higher risk than I am who are currently eligible for it and should rightly get it before I do. 

My understanding was there is ample supply of AZ everywhere - state clinics, primary care. I have 3 GPs in my street (this is NSW though), all their 3 clinics have ample AZ.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

My understanding was there is ample supply of AZ everywhere - state clinics, primary care. I have 3 GPs in my street (this is NSW though), all their 3 clinics have ample AZ.

My elderly Mum, who is very high risk, had to wait 2 months for her first AZ shot from her local GP in suburban Melbourne. Which for me, also raises the point about why there doesn't seem to be a program to get nurses out to old folks homes and villages so vulnerable people aren't having to head out into public, let alone a GP clinic, to get their shots.

[binman 42,605]

16 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

The data on vaccinated groups catching Delta (citation required: infected-vaccinated by age decile/comordities) is not good. Lots of vaccinated people appear to be getting it, and transmitting it.

I don't know what the risk is vis a vis viral load/transmissability of those vaccinated, but I'd be concerned enough.

Doesn't mean it's not a good idea re: lower risk...

 

Yep, fully vaccinated people can transmit covid, so all the same safety measures would still need to apply. But the likelihood of anyone who does get it getting really crook or being hospitalized is very low. 

But speaking from a personal point of view i'd prefer to sit in stand where i knew everyone was fully vaccinated. I could just chillvax, kick vac, and enjoy the game. 

[Pennant St Dee 13,064]

5 hours ago, daisycutter said:

an alternative approach:

3 conferences each of 6 sides

play each team in conference twice plus once against all other conference teams

i.e. (2 x 5) + (1 x12) = 22 games total

conferences initially decided by ranking all teams over say 20 years (or 10 or 25 or 30 or whatever). 

• conf1 - 1,4,7,10,13,16
• conf2 - 2,5,8,11,14.17
• conf3 - 3,6,9,12,15,18

Final 8 = top 2 from each conference plus next best performing 2 teams

I don’t like conferences, teams in the NFL have won conferences with losing records and had home field advantage in the first round of play offs

[daisycutter 29,600]

1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I don’t like conferences, teams in the NFL have won conferences with losing records and had home field advantage in the first round of play offs

fair enough, psd, your choice

the current system of 17 games plus 5 (seemingly) random games is the root of the current unfairness and lack of transparency.  the conference system was just a way to make the fixture predictable and transparent. it's by no means perfect either.

i go back a long way.   in the '60s (12 teams 18 rounds) at least i'm pretty sure, there were 11 games against all the other teams, followed by 7 games against 7 of the other 11 teams.   this 7 games was on a fixed rolling sequence. e.g. one year play team 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 then next year 8,9,10,11,1,2.3, then next year 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc etc.   fixed and predictable, no afl fiddling, but of course still a bit of a lottery depending  on the year, but as "fair" as could be made. (n.b. games didn't have to be played in same sequence each year)

anyway, somewhere along the way this all got changed due to marketing, club power politics and stakeholder interests, and no-one in the public knows exactly how the extra 5 games are chosen.       of course we can guess and have our own theories.

at least this is how i remember things , it certainly wasn't always the way it is now. 

[Pennant St Dee 13,064]

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

fair enough, psd, your choice

the current system of 17 games plus 5 (seemingly) random games is the root of the current unfairness and lack of transparency.  the conference system was just a way to make the fixture predictable and transparent. it's by no means perfect either.

i go back a long way.   in the '60s (12 teams 18 rounds) at least i'm pretty sure, there were 11 games against all the other teams, followed by 7 games against 7 of the other 11 teams.   this 7 games was on a fixed rolling sequence. e.g. one year play team 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 then next year 8,9,10,11,1,2.3, then next year 4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc etc.   fixed and predictable, no afl fiddling, but of course still a bit of a lottery depending  on the year, but as "fair" as could be made. (n.b. games didn't have to be played in same sequence each year)

anyway, somewhere along the way this all got changed due to marketing, club power politics and stakeholder interests, and no-one in the public knows exactly how the extra 5 games are chosen.       of course we can guess and have our own theories.

at least this is how i remember things , it certainly wasn't always the way it is now. 

Yep never going to be even unless we go 17 or 34 H & A.

As a 70s child I really only remember the 22 round H&A season of the 12 team competition before we expanded 

[Demonland 71,264]

 

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

8 hours ago, binman said:

Sure. 

But i'm not proposing that ONLY people who are fully vaccinated can get a ticket. Just that they (we) can sit in their own stand, should they want to. As i would if the option was available. 

That said anyone over 18 get an AZ shot if they want to.

Even if they got their first shot this week they wouldn’t be fully-vaccinated until after the season’s ended. 

[Superunknown 4,210]

6 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Even if they got their first shot this week they wouldn’t be fully-vaccinated until after the season’s ended. 

AZ second shot has been bought in to 4 weeks IIRC in light of the two outbreaks. 

[Superunknown 4,210]

14 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

My elderly Mum, who is very high risk, had to wait 2 months for her first AZ shot from her local GP in suburban Melbourne. Which for me, also raises the point about why there doesn't seem to be a program to get nurses out to old folks homes and villages so vulnerable people aren't having to head out into public, let alone a GP clinic, to get their shots.

When was that? She was in a RACF? Commonwealth or private? Aren’t RACFs Pfizer? (My wife’s grandmother in RACF in Bendigo was vaccinated with Pfizer in Feb via in reach)

I hope everyone remembers this roll out debacle come election time.

[Kent 2,906]

15 hours ago, Superunknown said:

My understanding was there is ample supply of AZ everywhere - state clinics, primary care. I have 3 GPs in my street (this is NSW though), all their 3 clinics have ample AZ.

Excatly the  shortage is a myth!

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, Superunknown said:

When was that? She was in a RACF? Commonwealth or private? Aren’t RACFs Pfizer? (My wife’s grandmother in RACF in Bendigo was vaccinated with Pfizer in Feb via in reach)

I hope everyone remembers this roll out debacle come election time.

She's in a private retirement village. It's 'independent' living, but the majority of residents don't drive, aren't physically able to catch public transport and are understandably nervous about using a taxi to travel to a public GP. For her regular GP appointments they come to her residence, but for some reason she had to travel to the GP to get her vaccine.

My Dad, who is in care with Alzheimer's, got his vaccine shots around Easter time, but he'd already spent a month in hospital with COVID and has lingering effects from it.

[Superunknown 4,210]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

She's in a private retirement village. It's 'independent' living, but the majority of residents don't drive, aren't physically able to catch public transport and are understandably nervous about using a taxi to travel to a public GP. For her regular GP appointments they come to her residence, but for some reason she had to travel to the GP to get her vaccine.

My Dad, who is in care with Alzheimer's, got his vaccine shots around Easter time, but he'd already spent a month in hospital with COVID and has lingering effects from it.

Hope they're ok as can be expected. What a shambles. Like I said, come election time....

[Diamond_Jim 12,525]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

She's in a private retirement village. It's 'independent' living, but the majority of residents don't drive, aren't physically able to catch public transport and are understandably nervous about using a taxi to travel to a public GP. For her regular GP appointments they come to her residence, but for some reason she had to travel to the GP to get her vaccine.

My Dad, who is in care with Alzheimer's, got his vaccine shots around Easter time, but he'd already spent a month in hospital with COVID and has lingering effects from it.

Your parents story is so typical Lord Nev.

We had months last year to build a national vaccination register which with the use of computers, spread maps etc could have driven the roll out.

Instead we got a system where in the main it was everyone for themselves.

Malaysia uses a registration app. You just register with age, medical condition, location and when its your turn you are sent an appointment. Stacks of transport volounteers etc. Malaysia with its population similar to ours is giving near 500k jabs per day. (Pity that until now it's been mainly the Chinese Sinovac. )

[Diamond_Jim 12,525]

South Australia having a small outbreak. Relatively minor restrictions at present but as we know these could grow.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

She's in a private retirement village. It's 'independent' living, but the majority of residents don't drive, aren't physically able to catch public transport and are understandably nervous about using a taxi to travel to a public GP. For her regular GP appointments they come to her residence, but for some reason she had to travel to the GP to get her vaccine.

My Dad, who is in care with Alzheimer's, got his vaccine shots around Easter time, but he'd already spent a month in hospital with COVID and has lingering effects from it.

Wishing the very best and a happy outcome for both your parents, Nev. ?

[roy11 3,829]

 

The Melbourne Cricket Club, on behalf of the MCG, is understood to already be working on a new Covid plan for spectators at the footy.

Sources have confirmed new entry parameters could include:

• No food or drink on sale inside stadiums.

• Masks to be worn at all-times.

• Staggered entry times to avoid queueing.

• A bigger spread of seating.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,687]

1 minute ago, roy11 said:

 

The Melbourne Cricket Club, on behalf of the MCG, is understood to already be working on a new Covid plan for spectators at the footy.

Sources have confirmed new entry parameters could include:

• No food or drink on sale inside stadiums.

• Masks to be worn at all-times.

• Staggered entry times to avoid queueing.

• A bigger spread of seating.

 

The last two dot points seem so obvious one wonders why they weren't already in place.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

4 hours ago, Superunknown said:

AZ second shot has been bought in to 4 weeks IIRC in light of the two outbreaks. 

In non-outbreak settings the recommendation for duration between AZ is still 12 weeks, as it provides the highest efficacy in the long-term. 

The four-week interval is only being encouraged in Sydney hotspots right now. 
 

 

[TRIGON 4,783]

3 minutes ago, roy11 said:

 

The Melbourne Cricket Club, on behalf of the MCG, is understood to already be working on a new Covid plan for spectators at the footy.

Sources have confirmed new entry parameters could include:

• No food or drink on sale inside stadiums.

• Masks to be worn at all-times.

• Staggered entry times to avoid queueing.

• A bigger spread of seating.

 

Does this mean BYO slabs?

[Diamond_Jim 12,525]

the outdoor food vans are controlled by the Council not the MCC. The MCC has been trying to get rid of them for years as they compete with their ground caterers.

Never really thought of them as choke points.

If they are mixing points then they could have a QR code.

The outdoor smoking areas are probably a greater risk

PS: Sorry thought the restriction was on food etc outside the stadium. See that it's inside the stadium.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Diamond_Jim

[Superunknown 4,210]

17 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The last two dot points seem so obvious one wonders why they weren't already in place.

The last 3. The health experts (except our CMO) have been saying this is an airborne virus from early on in the piece. Doesn't matter if you're outdoors if you're all crammed into one space.

[Superunknown 4,210]

18 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

In non-outbreak settings the recommendation for duration between AZ is still 12 weeks, as it provides the highest efficacy in the long-term. 

The four-week interval is only being encouraged in Sydney hotspots right now. 
 

 

Aware of that.