On 15/11/2021 at 06:04, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I agree that Jones doesn't have to be vaccinated, but by breaching the mandate he has to wear the consequences of that decision. I admire him for standing by his principles, but believe he's made a poor choice in doing so. Not because it ends his career but because he's put his health and the health of those around him at unnecessary risk. And that's why the mandate exists.

 

do you think the mandate will be permanent for the foreseeable future?

  On 15/11/2021 at 06:07, daisycutter said:

do you think the mandate will be permanent for the foreseeable future?

I'm not sure what you consider to be the "foreseeable future", but I would expect it to remain until either the end of 2022 or when the vaccination rate reaches about 98% in Victoria. Should we get back to zero cases of Covid in Victoria before either of those data points are reached, there might be a relaxation, but the officials would be wary of unreported Covid still being present in the community. I should add, that my expectation is purely a hunch - I have no information that guides me towards those figures.

Do I think we'll get to 98% vaccinated by end 2022 (excluding ineligible people such as children under 5, if that's still the case, and those with genuine health reasons for not being vaccinated)? I'd like to think so, but I doubt it. Too many people have made a public point about choosing not to be vaccinated to now enable them to back down with dignity even if they change their minds. 

I expect the mandate to be a big issue in the Victorian State election which will be in the late November 2022.

Foolish by Liam. Those who applaud him for having the guts to stand by his principles should also realise that the reason why we have these mandates is that people don't always know what is good for them and important decisions like these are best taken out of their hands. It is the reason why there are laws that require you to be 18+ to drink, gamble, vote and drive.

There are no alternatives to the vaccine. We could have either endured upto somewhere between 500K-1M deaths (In Aus alone) or locked down until a vaccine has been developed. Im glad Dan did what he did and despite the massive mental toll i and others have taken, understand the decision.

The other unspoken, slighty tangential topic here, is that mRNA technology (used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines) is a modern medical breakthrough. People do not realise what this technology is going to do for incurable diseases (think cancer, autoimmune conditions and chronic illnesses) in the next 10-20 years. The fact that COVID-19 bought this to the forefront is one of the very few positive benefits of COVID (WFH is the only other one i can think of). 

  On 15/11/2021 at 05:22, drysdale demon said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter.

Opinions are fine, but 'opinions of facts' are not.

 

I think it's funny, science was about throwing in a theory and wanting others to challenge your theory. Scientists welcomed other scientists to challenge their theory because that is how progress is achieved. 

But heaven fobid if you challenge Covid or Climate science. You get ousted and called a denier. Cancelled even. 

So Liam is going to throw himself into economic prison, that's his decision. 

Its always better to entice or persuad people to take the vaccine with good arguments. Forcing people to take something is always going to bring division. Governments have not always done what's best for everyone.

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:37, Youngwilliam said:

Scientists welcomed other scientists to challenge their theory because that is how progress is achieved. 

And Liam is a specialist in what scientific field?

  On 15/11/2021 at 05:04, Jibroni said:

Having said that I still dont quite understand why young people (Under 18) need to be vaccinated

For the same reason we vaccinate against Rubella.

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:49, bing181 said:

And Liam is a specialist in what scientific field?

Never said Liam was a specialist in science. Obviously there hasn't been enough of a persuasive argument put his way yet.

Doctors used to promote smoking too. Yeah science has got it 100% correct every time. Money talks, money makes things happen, not always for the good.

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:37, Youngwilliam said:

I think it's funny, science was about throwing in a theory and wanting others to challenge your theory. Scientists welcomed other scientists to challenge their theory because that is how progress is achieved.

Yes. By other scientists. Through methods such as peer-reviewing. Not blokes like Liam jones who (assumably) has no scientific qualifications. It’s really not that hard to understand.

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:37, Youngwilliam said:

I think it's funny, science was about throwing in a theory and wanting others to challenge your theory. Scientists welcomed other scientists to challenge their theory because that is how progress is achieved. 

But heaven fobid if you challenge Covid or Climate science. You get ousted and called a denier. Cancelled even.

You mean, like when a world expert in scientific misconduct was threatened with legal action for pointing out flawed hydroxychloroquine studies?

Righto...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/22/world-expert-in-scientific-misconduct-faces-legal-action-for-challenging-integrity-of-hydroxychloroquine-study

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/03/microbiologist-elisabeth-bik-queried-covid-research-thats-when-the-abuse-and-trolling-began

Or when scientists are threatened with physical and sexual violence and murder?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02741-x

Heaven forbid you would listen to the vast majority of actual experts on these matters rather than disproven crackpots and YouTube.

 

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:58, Foopy on the telly said:

Yes. By other scientists. Through methods such as peer-reviewing. Not blokes like Liam jones who (assumably) has no scientific qualifications. It’s really not that hard to understand.

Let alone fringe lunatics like Craig Kelly and Bernie Finn. Not to mention MisterTrump...

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:59, Lord Nev said:

You mean, like when a world expert in scientific misconduct was threatened with legal action for pointing out flawed hydroxychloroquine studies?

Righto...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/22/world-expert-in-scientific-misconduct-faces-legal-action-for-challenging-integrity-of-hydroxychloroquine-study

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/03/microbiologist-elisabeth-bik-queried-covid-research-thats-when-the-abuse-and-trolling-began

Or when scientists are threatened with physical and sexual violence and murder?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02741-x

Heaven forbid you would listen to the vast majority of actual experts on these matters rather than disproven crackpots and YouTube.

 

We don't know Liam's intentions, he might thing he has enough to go off the grid and live off the land in isolation, wish I could. Liam Jones might want to sit out for a couple years and see where this covid thing goes in a few years.

So you bring up worst case scenarios, goes both ways you know.

Division has never been greater when it comes to people's opinions than right now. I feel you don't ask enough questions and you are happy to go along blindly because the expert gave it the thumbs up. 

During Covid-19 the billionairs increased their wealth immensely, Jeff Bezos just paid $78 million for 14 acre property on the beach of Maui. Yet in the same breath he will condemn you for creating too much carbon while he takes his jet all over the world. "But global warming" and "rising ocean levels" only matter to us and Jeff Bezos when he wants an ocean view. Al Gore Bill Gates and Obama also have property on the beach. 

Small business are in agony in Melbourne while the global corporations are raking it in.

  On 15/11/2021 at 08:16, Youngwilliam said:

We don't know Liam's intentions, he might thing he has enough to go off the grid and live off the land in isolation, wish I could. Liam Jones might want to sit out for a couple years and see where this covid thing goes in a few years.

So you bring up worst case scenarios, goes both ways you know.

Division has never been greater when it comes to people's opinions than right now. I feel you don't ask enough questions and you are happy to go along blindly because the expert gave it the thumbs up. 

During Covid-19 the billionairs increased their wealth immensely, Jeff Bezos just paid $78 million for 14 acre property on the beach of Maui. Yet in the same breath he will condemn you for creating too much carbon while he takes his jet all over the world. "But global warming" and "rising ocean levels" only matter to us and Jeff Bezos when he wants an ocean view. Al Gore Bill Gates and Obama also have property on the beach. 

Small business are in agony in Melbourne while the global corporations are raking it in.

I fail to understand what billionaires and small business agonies has got to do with stopping a pandemic...

Edited November 15, 20213 yr by dieter

  On 15/11/2021 at 08:16, Youngwilliam said:

you are happy to go along blindly because the expert gave it the thumbs up. 

Laughable, especially in the present context. These AFL players are surrounded by experts (Darren Burgess has a Doctorate) in a whole heap of fields, many of them focusing on physical preparation, health and medicine, who they trust completely. Yet when it comes to a Covid Vaccine - but not other kinds of vaccines, such as pain-killers etc. - they Do Their Own Research.

  On 15/11/2021 at 08:54, bing181 said:

Laughable, especially in the present context. These AFL players are surrounded by experts (Darren Burgess has a Doctorate) in a whole heap of fields, many of them focusing on physical preparation, health and medicine, who they trust completely. Yet when it comes to a Covid Vaccine - but not other kinds of vaccines, such as pain-killers etc. - they Do Their Own Research.

It's the time it took to roll a vaccine out to the public, its the lack of understanding around the origin of this virus. It's the political intervention and it's use in the political landscape.

Medical science still isn't concrete on Ice Baths. Some players like wearing Skins because a Sports Scientist said it aided recovery, lessened injuries. For some players the use of Skins is just psychological. 

Rock tape, used internationally and in other codes of sport but not in AFL. I have used Rock Tape but I have also seen the divide Rock Tape brings the sports sience community.

Having a Covid vaccine makes you feel better, more protected. A flu vaccine has done its job for me in my opinion during flu season. I have gotten the flu bad when I haven't had the flu shot but that's my trial and error. I won't force you to take the flu shot if you feel your immune system can handle you getting Influenza. 

  On 15/11/2021 at 07:37, Youngwilliam said:

I think it's funny, science was about throwing in a theory and wanting others to challenge your theory.

You don't just "throw in a theory". A theory, among other things, needs to be built on previous scientific facts and research, even if it attempts to change some of them. No scientist gets far if they haven't done significant research to develop a theory or what seems like a "breakthrough" in the first place.

"Throwing in" a crazy Covid theory like Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine is not science, it's just ignorant or hopeful guessing. These theories got the short shrift from the TGA that they deserved.

BTW, here's another hint: follow the money. Who made a large investment in hydroxychloroquine in Australia and can't sell it?

There has now been 7.5 billion vaccinations given for Covid-19, and 3.2 billion (nearly half or 42%) of the world's population is fully vaccinated with two doses. People are not exactly dying in even small numbers as a result. Vaccines for Covid-19 have gone way past the "experimental" or "trial" phase. They are now about the most researched and medically-tested vaccines ever. Anyone like Liam Jones  who thinks they are still dangerous is deluding themselves ... quite the opposite given the lives they save.

How can fear of complications on such a low percentage overrule a statistically proven method of inoculation against a deadly virus? That literally makes it less likely for one to die, or helps prevent more vulnerable loved ones from dying. Beggars belief

 

All of these face palms can't be abiding by covid safe protocols 

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:25, adonski said:

All of these face palms can't be abiding by covid safe protocols 

We're all wearing masks, okay! And, we're double-dosed and we're more than 1.5 metres away. Just for the record.😂🤣😍🥰

Edited November 15, 20213 yr by dieter

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:27, dieter said:

We're all wearing masks, okay! And, we're double-dosed and we're more than 1.5 metres away. Just for the record.

Not in FNQ we aint.  Up here you struggle to get people to wear clothes.....

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:33, Youngwilliam said:

Germany is going back into lockdown, this isn't over.

Not it isn't.  Germany and Austria are going into lockdown for the unvaxxed.  I have been completely unselfish by getting vaxxed and I hope others will do so too.

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:45, Youngwilliam said:

I am vaxxed too, never said I wasn't. But taking away someone's livelihood to protect the unhealthy and old is going too far.

Out of 397,000 people who get covid only 1 healthy person will die from Covid.

New Zealand counted someone who was shot as a covid death. 🤣🤣🤣

Where did you get this 'information' from?

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:33, Youngwilliam said:

Covid has brought out the worst in society, shown us all how much we can be selfish.

Exactly. All the unvaccinated people who think it will make you sterile, or magnetic, or a slave to Bill Gates, that are failing to do the community thing and helping control the pandemic. All in the name of "freedom", that ironically none of them are getting.

Liam Jones has made his own version of "freedom" I guess.

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:45, Youngwilliam said:

Out of 397,000 people who get covid only 1 healthy person will die from Covid.

Rubbish.

Read this/: https://www.theage.com.au/national/dying-of-covid-or-with-it-pathologists-take-on-conspiracy-theorists-20211111-p5982e.html

(Hint: open it in a private window)

  On 15/11/2021 at 09:55, Youngwilliam said:

The Age put it in print... it has to be real /s

Did I miss something? What's your source? Then I can decide whether I choose to believe what you've claimed or not. Just the same as you're doing with information published in The Age.