Umps got it wrong - need a please explain

[Wagga Demon 1]

3 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Let those who has never made a mistake levy the first fines. 

If an umpire makes a mistake NO CONSEQUENCES 

If a player makes a mistake !!!!!!!!!

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

Redleg is spot on.

It's not a mistake. It's a clear and obvious free kick right in front of the umpire and he elected not to pay it. Why? He bottled it - he must have known it was a free but didn't show the courage required to pay a potential game-deciding free kick in front of the rabid Adelaide fans. I can tolerate an umpiring error (e.g. missing a hold or a high tackle in a pack of players), and I can tolerate not paying tiggy touchwood frees in a tight game, but you simply must pay a clear and obvious free that you see. It's a clear deliberate under the old interpretation, let alone the new "insufficient intent to keep it in" which is a lower threshold.

And that's not even mentioning the holding the ball against Keays - one of the clearest examples of holding the ball you will ever see. So that's 2 of the 3 umpires on the night bottling it. They melted in the spotlight and allowed themselves to be influenced by the crowd and that's the message that needs to be conveyed. Fat chance of that happening though - all we will get is the AFL giving the "yeah they each made a mistake" and further obfuscating the issue.

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,679]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Related question: Did our 'good guy' mentally cost us that free kick? Not enough of our players 'appealed' for the deliberate decision. ANB half heartedly put his hands up, no one else did anything. If a few of them had, even if ANB or Jacko had started to lineup like he was expecting the decision, it potentially could have tipped the balance in the umpires eyes.

We were poor. Absolutely 0 pressure until after half time. A fair few blokes should be hanging their heads. Crows 100% deserved to win. Doesn't mean we can't talk about yet another decision/non-decision that has decided the outcome of a game though.

Staggering we still have part timers officiating a billion dollar game.

 

Your right there Lord not alot of hands went up in a deliberate, deliberate motion.

At the same time its the slap in the face we needed as a team. 

You shouldn't lose a game being 16 pts up with 3 mins remaining.

These are the types of games management scenarios we will need to handle better in future. 

An excellent lesson in closing a game out and not leaving the door open like we did last night.

I do expect an apology from the head of umpiring though, a shocking call.

Crows players clear intention was the boundary line

Edited May 23, 2021 by Win4theAges

[leave it to deever 17,511]

I always wondered why the crows and eagles fans booed so much.

I guess if they can intimidate umpires they will keep on doing it.

That umpire wasnt bold enough to call that deliberate. Its not easy to go against thirty thousand angry supporters. They boo because it clearly helps sway umpires.

Sure worked last night.

[Macca 16,903]

Game goes for 4 quarters (approximately 120 minutes) so the last minute and what happens in that last minute is connected to the other 119 minutes

So we decided to loaf and bludge through the game and go away from the disciplined football required at this level ... that's what we did and that is why we lost

That's the main reason so why give the players an out?

Goodwin will hopefully have roasted the players after the game and I'm damned sure he wouldn't have even mentioned the questionable calls at the end (or at any part of the game for that matter)

We're 16 points in front late in the last quarter and lose?  Good teams don't lose from that position

Focus on 1 or 2 questionable umpiring decisions and you will let the players & FD off the hook

Same as the focus is often on Goodwin alone when we don't play well ... lets the other members of the FD and the players off the hook when that happens

Besides all that ANB would have had the ball if the call had have been deliberate and I doubt he kicks a goal from that angle. 3 minutes earlier he clangered the ball to the opposition in typical ANB fashion.  He might have missed everything in fact

So would we be happy with a draw?

Not me,  I see a draw as a loss against a cellar dweller even though a draw creates separation in terms of premiership points.

But I don't believe in giving a sucker an even break.  We contributed to our own fate last night.  So the only thing to do is look in the mirror

You play to win and last night we were not good enough.  A soft performance

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

2 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Wah wah wah the umps suck wah wah wah

We lost to a garbage team, the umpires are irrelevant

Your totally missing the point as usual.

We lost to a garbage team AND the umpiring needs change.

Get a grip.

[Gunna’s 2,102]

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

Game goes for 4 quarters (approximately 120 minutes) so the last minute and what happens in that last minute is connected to the other 119 minutes

So we decided to loaf and bludge through the game and go away from the disciplined football required at this level ... that's what we did and that is why we lost

That's the main reason so why give the players an out?

Goodwin will hopefully have roasted the players after the game and I'm damned sure he wouldn't have even mentioned the questionable calls at the end (or at any part of the game for that matter)

We're 16 points in front late in the last quarter and lose?  Good teams don't lose from that position

Focus on 1 or 2 questionable umpiring decisions and you will let the players & FD off the hook

Same as the focus is often on Goodwin alone when we don't play well ... lets the other members of the FD and the players off the hook when that happens

Besides all that ANB would have had the ball if the call had have been deliberate and I doubt he kicks a goal from that angle. 3 minutes earlier he clangered the ball to the opposition in typical ANB fashion.  He might have missed everything in fact

So would we be happy with a draw?

Not me,  I see a draw as a loss against a cellar dweller even though a draw creates separation in terms of premiership points.

But I don't believe in giving a sucker an even break.  We contributed to our own fate last night.  So the only thing to do is look in the mirror

You play to win and last night we were not good enough.  A soft performance

wrong thread buddy. This is about the umpires. Blind Freddy knows we played poorly. This is about whether we should accept poor umpiring. If it was a GF would you think differently?

If it happened in a GF cause we didn’t call out the behaviour in the lead up then I would be livid.

 

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

New vision has emerged which sees the ball deflecting off Spargo’s hand. 
 

This is why he didn’t complain. 
 

case closed. 
 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Mel Bourne

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

The crux of this situation is in previous years because we used to lose by so much it was just another one, this year and these games are different. 

We are a better team. We deserve to be treated like Geelong and Hawthorn of past years and they would demand it. That was an absolute disgrace and the Club, not the players should bring those bastar@@ down to training and ask them why was this, and that not given . The coach of Geelong or Richmond would be rightly on the phone saying that decisions by any future umpire of their games does NOT get paid.

 Whether we are playing in Moscow or Manchester... or Melbourne

 

[In Harmes Way 7,735]

The issue with the non deliberate call is not with the umpiring, but with the rule itself.

Any rule that requires the umpire to guess what the intent of the players disposal is, rather than ruling on the outcome, is flawed. Especially with a non round ball in a fast flowing game.

The rule needs to be changed, or scrapped altogether.

 

[Macca 16,903]

2 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

New vision has emerged which sees the ball deflecting off Spargo’s hand. 
 

This is why he didn’t complain. 
 

case closed. 
 

 

There you go hey ... well picked up Mel Bourne

If Spargo doesn't deflect the ball, the trajectory of the ball could have ended up very close to his Adelaide teammate (and not necessarily near the boundary line)

Others might see it differently though as the vision is a bit obscure

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Macca

[deespicable me 1,485]

I think it's important umpires are held accountable. I think when they came out and said they got it wrong in the Geelong game it would have embarrassed the umpire and put pressure on all of the umpires to be clear and accountable, especially in the last frantic minutes of a game. 

So to those who think we achieve little I absolutely don't agree. I think it's important the umpires are held accountable if they are going to improve standards. I definitely want the AFL to come out and put it on record the umpires got it wrong.

 And Macca try explaining away the holding the ball/ incorrect disposal not paid which was clearly very obviously a free. The deliberate OOB is always a raffle, but the holding the ball desicion just before Tex's and the games last goal was an extremely poor and incorrect non-decision.

And as poor as we were or whatever, umpiring was directly responsible in the outcome of the game. No-one should be happy with that.

 

[grazman 7,405]

5 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

t was very ironic given that the Crows got awarded a free for deliberate out of bounds which they got a goal out of, which far less of a free kick in my eyes.  In that instance out player (I think it was Lever) did a soft hand loopy handball out of a pack situation and the Adelaide player shephered the ball over the line, while appealing for the free kick.  When the rule was first bought in, the free would have actually been paid against that Adelaide player, because he had pleanty of oppertunity to pickup the ball before it went out, but chose not to.

Absolutely.  Insufficient attempt to keep the ball in... by who?  At least with the Lever decision there was a Melbourne player in the direction of the handball, whilst the Adelaide player had plenty of opportunity to take possession before the ball went out of bounds but was appealing for the free before it had even crossed the line. 

[grazman 7,405]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

We will get the apology for the "mistake". Problem is, I don't believe it it was a mistake. It was deliberate by the umpire who saw it. Not in a cheating way, but out of fear, in front of a ground full of fanatics, to pay a free that would lose them the game.

Agree Redleg. Excatly like the non-holding the ball.  All you want is consistency. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by grazman

[Dr.D 1,771]

the writing was on the wall against North. And Carlton. And Hawthorn. A complete inability to put games beyond reach of teams and a complete lack of understanding on momentum. For example, the amount of times this year where we kick a goal and the other team has kicked a goal 30 seconds later is now a very obvious pattern which I down to not switching on. 

[Macca 16,903]

2 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I think it's important umpires are held accountable. I think when they came out and said they got it wrong in the Geelong game it would have embarrassed the umpire and put pressure on all of the umpires to be clear and accountable, especially in the last frantic minutes of a game. 

So to those who think we achieve little I absolutely don't agree. I think it's important the umpires are held accountable if they are going to improve standards. I definitely want the AFL to come out and put it on record the umpires got it wrong.

 And Macca try explaining away the holding the ball/ incorrect disposal not paid which was clearly very obviously a free. The deliberate OOB is always a raffle, but the holding the ball desicion just before Tex's and the games last goal was an extremely poor and incorrect non-decision.

And as poor as we were or whatever, umpiring was directly responsible in the outcome of the game. No-one should be happy with that.

 

I see our team receiving at least 6 lucky free kicks in any given game.  What about that free kick to Petracca at CHF?  Bit soft?

We've had a good run so far this season (mainly because we've been first in for the ball and have finally decided to play in front)

But not last night ... we were 2nd to the ball and paid a heavy price

By the way, the player in front will receive a free kick 4 out of 5 times (if a free kick is paid)

Hey, I get the passion and most hate losing so much that they feel a screaming need to blame the umpires (the collaberators? ha ha)

I never have and never will blame umpires because my preferred position is did we play well enough to win? (like a coach would analyse things)

Seen the new vision of the so-called deliberate OOB? 

If so, what is your view now?

[Billy 2,521]

1 hour ago, Scoop Junior said:

Redleg is spot on.

It's not a mistake. It's a clear and obvious free kick right in front of the umpire and he elected not to pay it. Why? He bottled it - he must have known it was a free but didn't show the courage required to pay a potential game-deciding free kick in front of the rabid Adelaide fans. I can tolerate an umpiring error (e.g. missing a hold or a high tackle in a pack of players), and I can tolerate not paying tiggy touchwood frees in a tight game, but you simply must pay a clear and obvious free that you see. It's a clear deliberate under the old interpretation, let alone the new "insufficient intent to keep it in" which is a lower threshold.

And that's not even mentioning the holding the ball against Keays - one of the clearest examples of holding the ball you will ever see. So that's 2 of the 3 umpires on the night bottling it. They melted in the spotlight and allowed themselves to be influenced by the crowd and that's the message that needs to be conveyed. Fat chance of that happening though - all we will get is the AFL giving the "yeah they each made a mistake" and further obfuscating the issue.

 

Spot on, l don’t care if we played ordinary & didn’t deserve to win, the fact of the matter is that the umpire was to weak to make a result changing decision in the last 30 seconds of the match

[layzie 33,740]

43 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

New vision has emerged which sees the ball deflecting off Spargo’s hand. 
 

This is why he didn’t complain. 
 

case closed. 
 

 

That’s fair but there’s no indication from the umpire whatsoever at the time suggesting it was off hands. I’d put this down to luck that it happened to come off Spargo hand more so than brilliant umpiring but that’s just my view. The case is closed though. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by layzie

[Megatron 886]

45 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

New vision has emerged which sees the ball deflecting off Spargo’s hand. 
 

This is why he didn’t complain. 
 

case closed. 
 

 

The direction of the handball was heading straight to the line anyway. Regardless if he got a small deflection or not, his total intention was to get the ball over the line. The exact same thing happened to Lever and that got paid against him. 

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

1 minute ago, Megatron said:

The direction of the handball was heading straight to the line anyway. Regardless if he got a small deflection or not, his total intention was to get the ball over the line. The exact same thing happened to Lever and that got paid against him. 

If the ball makes contact with an opp player it can’t be deliberate. 

[Megatron 886]

Just now, Mel Bourne said:

If the ball makes contact with an opp player it can’t be deliberate. 

Lever’s did but his got paid against him, and the crows player blocked the ball over the line as well. Max got pinged for holding the ball, moments later Keys got caught while having longer to get rid of it, and didn’t but play on. My point is you can’t pay one then not the other. 
This is what annoys fans the most

[gregdemon 624]

41 minutes ago, Macca said:

There you go hey ... well picked up Mel Bourne

If Spargo doesn't deflect the ball, the trajectory of the ball would have ended up very close to his Adelaide teammate (and not necessarily near the boundary line)

As you said, case closed

But many have already made up their minds so this new evidence won't be changing their minds either

There won't be much contrition either

 

I still say drone strike on Adelaide would make be feel better  LOL

 

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

1 minute ago, Megatron said:

Lever’s did but his got paid against him, and the crows player blocked the ball over the line as well. Max got pinged for holding the ball, moments later Keys got caught while having longer to get rid of it, and didn’t but play on. My point is you can’t pay one then not the other. 
This is what annoys fans the most

Sure. But I only posted about this particular decision, which is the one folks are most upset about. Look I was angry about the umpiring after the match yesterday, but if you’re still angry about it I recommend you find something very zen to do. It’s wasted energy. 

[deespicable me 1,485]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I see our team receiving at least 6 lucky free kicks in any given game.  What about that free kick to Petracca at CHF?  Bit soft?

We've had a good run so far this season (mainly because we've been first in for the ball and have finally decided to play in front)

But not last night ... we were 2nd to the ball and paid a heavy price

By the way, the player in front will receive a free kick 4 out of 5 times (if a free kick is paid)

Hey, I get the passion and most hate losing so much that they feel a screaming need to blame the umpires (the collaberators? ha ha)

I never have and never will blame umpires because my preferred position is did we play well enough to win? (like a coach would analyse things)

Seen the new vision of the so-called deliberate OOB? 

If so, what is your view now?

Yeah sure Macca, we have had a good run with umpiring in many of our early wins. Yeah the decision to Petracca was soft. My view on any deliberate OOB's is always the same. It's a raffle.

I'm worried your aligning yourself with coaches though. We are on a fan forum, you're not a coach any more than anyone here, so no need to try and take the "high" ground. 

I'm not actually talking about last night. Last night is just another example of my life long frustration with umpiring and I'd like to see it improve. This thread allows me an opportunity to put forward my opinion.

My opinion of the game was it was a great game. Tex Walker was fantastic. Doedee's smother in the last qtr was fantastic. I don't think Oliver has played a better game. He was sensational. It was exciting and the crows supporters should be very happy today.

Even neutral supporters would have enjoyed it because we've all known the pain of being robbed by the umpires and would have thought it great to see the undefeated Demons go down in such a way.

But I'm not walking away from the fact that the umpiring affected the result and I think we should try to improve that coz who wants a contest decided by officialdom rather than the contestants?

[gregdemon 624]

Goodwin will hopefully have roasted the players after the game and I'm damned sure he wouldn't have even mentioned the questionable calls at the end (or at any part of the game for that matter)

 

More like " do not worry boys we are on a journey"     I like Goody but I cannot imagine him roasting anyone  maybe I am wrong