32 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

True leadership and loyalty would be Gawn and Lever getting the players to agree to across the board pay cuts as a lot of the good clubs have. 

Instead they’ve gone down the Nathan Jones style of leadership and getting their cash first.

It’s still about the individuals at the MFC.

Is that what the Richmond model looks like?

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don’t. But I do know there’s no collective agreement. 
 

I also know the history of list management and football administration from Pert’s time at Collingwood.

In the last 6 months we’ve handed out long extensions to Ben Brown, Viney, Gawn and Lever. All who might’ve peaked as AFL players and all who have significant injury histories. Are we paying for future performance or past performance with those guys?

Lot of sense in your post but I would like to tink it's about managing total player payments rather than length of top level playing career.

In the two years immediately following football most players (investments aside) would be lucky to gross $100k. Accordingly to the senior players it's about maximising the total playing salary. There is little difference in the last four years to a player between a contract of 3x $650k or 4 x$500k with a match bonus in the fourth year.In theory that leaves the club with an additional $150k a year to put towards a 23- 25 year old (say Oliver) which is where the real competition is.

Sure there's an impact on list size if things go pear shape and as you say having 3 players in this category may mean you are over weight in this strategy.

What I hope we are not doing is thinking there will be an increase in the salary cap that will make everything wonderfully balance out. The odds of that happening are 50% at best.

33 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don’t. But I do know there’s no collective agreement. 
 

I also know the history of list management and football administration from Pert’s time at Collingwood.

In the last 6 months we’ve handed out long extensions to Ben Brown, Viney, Gawn and Lever. All who might’ve peaked as AFL players and all who have significant injury histories. Are we paying for future performance or past performance with those guys?

 

38 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I don’t. But I do know there’s no collective agreement. 
 

I also know the history of list management and football administration from Pert’s time at Collingwood.

In the last 6 months we’ve handed out long extensions to Ben Brown, Viney, Gawn and Lever. All who might’ve peaked as AFL players and all who have significant injury histories. Are we paying for future performance or past performance with those guys?

Lever might’ve peaked?

Extending two of our highest paid players right now suggests to me a deal may have been reached with Oliver and we just have to move some stuff around. Probably wishful speculation though.  

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

 

Lever might’ve peaked?

Yes, at Adelaide when he made the AA squad. The combination of knee injury, average skills, extra pace on the game and his inability to mind dangerous key forwards might make him just be a mid tier intercepting player. 

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

What I hope we are not doing is thinking there will be an increase in the salary cap that will make everything wonderfully balance out. The odds of that happening are 50% at best.

The Collingwood approach to list management! I wouldn't advise we go down that path.

I wonder if  Max looked at decamping to a flag favourite? 

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Ask Pies fans how they are feeling about that contract. A 5 year commitment given this year to a 29 year old is too much. 

The captaincy is a honour in itself. Why do we have to dish out a big deal too? 2-3 years once he got through this season would’ve been fair. To back up 4 years right away is a huge investment unless we are getting a bargain deal. 

grundy had a poor year based on his extremely lofty standards and was still top 3 rucks in the comp last season, collingwood will definitely not regret their decision at all.

and you reward your captain for their importance to the club as a whole and the extra work they put in off field to lead and create culture and represent the club? how can you not understand any of that

28 minutes ago, Turner said:

grundy had a poor year based on his extremely lofty standards and was still top 3 rucks in the comp last season, collingwood will definitely not regret their decision at all.

and you reward your captain for their importance to the club as a whole and the extra work they put in off field to lead and create culture and represent the club? how can you not understand any of that

Preuss got the better of Grundy. No way he was better than Nic Nat, Gawn, Goldy and probably others. The Pies had to trade out 3 best 22 players, partly because they pay a ruck 7 figures rather than get by with serviceable rucks like most flag teams do.

The captaincy is the reward for the captains duties. It’s a privilege not a chore. A good captain will be worth keeping for extra years, coaching roles, club functions etc. I’m not suggesting we James McDonald him but when he’s 32 we can go year by year. Like we have with Jones. 

10 hours ago, Turner said:

grundy had a poor year based on his extremely lofty standards and was still top 3 rucks in the comp last season, collingwood will definitely not regret their decision at all.

and you reward your captain for their importance to the club as a whole and the extra work they put in off field to lead and create culture and represent the club? how can you not understand any of that

Grundy did not get on in the hub.

He does not want or like footy being 24/7. He will play better this year but at $1 mill per year needs to.

DS let's face it we are damned if we do or don't. Maxy is at the top of his game and I feel it's not a Buddy decision where he needs to play till 36.

We want To keep  all our players and the Club are doing an amazing job this week two of our very best for  the next 4 years and Clarry and Salo to come and I reckon Trac will sign on this season agsin. PS on top of Jack if we can get some younger stars also 

10 hours ago, old dee said:

I wonder if  Max looked at decamping to a flag favourite? 

He said he didn't look at FA Old Dee.

What more Do you want him to say?

Good result as long as he hasn’t highjacked the salary cap. Oliver and Petracca must be looked over as they’re our great hope in building towards a flag.

If Gawn plays most of the season like he played against Richmond and hitting the scoreboard then he’s heading towards a PB season and one of the best by a ruckman in the modern era.

18 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Yes, at Adelaide when he made the AA squad. The combination of knee injury, average skills, extra pace on the game and his inability to mind dangerous key forwards might make him just be a mid tier intercepting player. 

I think this year we will see the best of Lever. We know he’s not a key defender so I’m not sure why you referenced that? We may have initially payed overs for him to get him here but I’d like to think his new contract is more modest. The role he plays has it’s place and if played right can be quite effective. Out of interest which key defenders across the league have elite disposal?

20 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

True leadership and loyalty would be Gawn and Lever getting the players to agree to across the board pay cuts as a lot of the good clubs have. 

Instead they’ve gone down the Nathan Jones style of leadership and getting their cash first.

It’s still about the individuals at the MFC.

When Geelong won three flags in five years there were lots of player interviews at the time where players talked about capping their potential earnings in order to keep the core group together, for some reason 500k comes to mind.
 

I don’t remember reading/hearing anything about the Hawks.

Richmond seems to have Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin and Dusty on big coin then daylight second. They also had Rance who reportedly signed a massive deal before walking away from the game. 
 

Both models work in terms of list management whilst in the mist of a dynasty.

Do we honestly think Oliver and Petracca will sign four to five year deals for 500k when they are both worth so much more. After the contract to Brown, Viney, Gawn and Lever who do we you think is going to miss out? We need to remember that also coming out of contract this year is Jetta and Hibberd with TMac and Melksham in 2022. There’s a lot of money tied up in those four that is going to be freed up. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

When Geelong won three flags in five years there were lots of player interviews at the time where players talked about capping their potential earnings in order to keep the core group together, for some reason 500k comes to mind.
 

I don’t remember reading/hearing anything about the Hawks.

Richmond seems to have Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin and Dusty on big coin then daylight second. They also had Rance who reportedly signed a massive deal before walking away from the game. 
 

Both models work in terms of list management whilst in the mist of a dynasty.

Do we honestly think Oliver and Petracca will sign four to five year deals for 500k when they are both worth so much more. After the contract to Brown, Viney, Gawn and Lever who do we you think is going to miss out? We need to remember that also coming out of contract this year is Jetta and Hibberd with TMac and Melksham in 2022. There’s a lot of money tied up in those four that is going to be freed up. 
 

 

One year ones for Hibbo and Tommy and Melkshske  ONLY if he is genuinely in the senior side ( not favoured by the Coach) . Jets will have retired and Jonesy also. 

6 hours ago, 58er said:

One year ones for Hibbo and Tommy and Melkshske  ONLY if he is genuinely in the senior side ( not favoured by the Coach) . Jets will have retired and Jonesy also. 

melky and tmac already have '22 contracts

 

I've worked out why Gawn has a beard. Doesn't want to be confused with Popeye. Here's the evidence (and note Popeye's jumper, too):

 

Makes you wonder about the nature of his relationship with Oliver Oyl.