4 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Ah, so there were initially good intentions! That makes the genocide that happened later much more palatable!

Most of the evil that is done in this world is done by those with good intentions. 

Most? I'd humbly dispute that.

What were the good intentions of the European Colonialist Powers? Their good intentions didn't exist, they invaded country after country to exploit and drain them of their assets.

And what do you make of the good intentions of Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Clive of India, Churchill, Hitler, Mussolini, George Bush, Blair, Clinton, Howard and Stalin?

I really don't know what you mean.

 

Edited February 12, 20214 yr by dieter

4 hours ago, deegirl said:

@Lord Nev 100% agree with your take.   Goodes' being a proud black man confronted people and made them think of the uncomfortable truth.  And we don't like the truth - that racism is alive and well in Australia.  So rather than face the truth we deflect by saying it was about Goodes 'singaling out a teenager' or the fact he was  a lair of a player.  Same way people wanted to ignore what Hertier Lumumba had to say because he was a bit of w*nker.  

My recollection is that the booing started in May 13  at the Indigenous Round v Collingwood (the 13 yo & Ape incident) & continued throughout AG's career.

AG became Australian of the Year in Jan 2014 & started making speeches about Indigenous disadvantage & racism however by then the booing was already well entrenched.

On 2/11/2021 at 10:44 AM, Neil Crompton said:

Luci, I would think that based on public knowledge of events past, the vast majority of people would say that Eddie had to go - that the Club would now be better off without him. And the realization of that fact, given the size of his ego, must be such a humiliating, devastating and earth shattering awakening for Eddie, you have got to wonder how this will affect his mental health. I hope he has close friends and family supporting him in this regard.

Given that we have all got what we had hoped for - and we have had our say on the matter - perhaps its now time to be more considerate of his state of mind - there is no honour in kicking a man when he is down. 

You are so correct,kicking a bloke when he is down  a great statment and true .We all make mistakes in life and he has like all of us.But i am he sure meant no malice to any of the people he vilified

Dieter your Churchill post simply proves that some historians loathe Churchill. It would be simple to post an opposing biography saying what a great man he was.

You seem shocked that he was a racist.  Don't u realise that most 18th century Europeans thought they were superior to other races & were involved in a mad colonial scramble.

Some of the stuff he was involved with was dreaful but all colonial powers have skeletons in their closets.

19 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

My recollection is that the booing started in May 13  at the Indigenous Round v Collingwood (the 13 yo & Ape incident) & continued throughout AG's career.

AG became Australian of the Year in Jan 2014 & started making speeches about Indigenous disadvantage & racism however by then the booing was already well entrenched.

Incorrect. It wasn't one instantaneous and continuous stream as such. It intensified during 2014 and hit it's peak in 2015.

4 hours ago, dieter said:

They are not as different as you think, Db. Hence the relevance of this debate. You are aware, no doubt, of the wars the US has perpetrated since WW2? Allow me to list some of  them: Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Cambodia, Cuba, Lebanon, Bay of Pigs, Laos 1953, their part in the IRanian Coup 1953, Dominican Republic, Lebanon 1981, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, First Gulf War, arming IRaq and Iran pre first Gulf war, arming Saudi Arabia to rape Yemen, Sudan...We won't even mention the coups by stealth in Chile, Columbia, Puerto Rica, Venezuela, Honduras, Bolivia etc

In other words, this notion which is a direct descendant of the notion of White Supremacy, a notion inherited from the British, that it has the right to wage war and interfere in any country it chooses to. I believe it is the reason the US is such a basket case - simply because from day one of its history it has lied to itself and to the world about what it stands for.

Sorry mate but despite the fact that I will fight to the death for your right to make these comments I can't let u get away with factual errors.

Kim Il Sung started the Korean conflict. They had a significant role in Vietnam but didn't start it. Can't be blamed for Lebanon or Libya, don't see the evidence for Sudan & the First Gulf War was pretty much justifiable. And surely u can't blame them for the current Venezuelan conflict ?

11 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Sorry mate but despite the fact that I will fight to the death for your right to make these comments I can't let u get away with factual errors.

Kim Il Sung started the Korean conflict. They had a significant role in Vietnam but didn't start it. Can't be blamed for Lebanon or Libya, don't see the evidence for Sudan & the First Gulf War was pretty much justifiable. And surely u can't blame them for the current Venezuelan conflict ?

So, a white washer!. Him Sung started it: of course he did. Same in Vietnam. So you destroy North Korea so that there is not one brick on brick in the whole country, you rape Vietnam using all kinds of proscribed chemical weapons but the US  didn't start it so what's the problem???  So when Hilary said, We came, we saw, he died as she watched Gaddafi being butchered is not evidence? And what the hell do you know about Lebanon in the early '80's? And, no doubt, the US Turkey shoot during the first so-called Gulf War was justified. Of course it was, by the Western Press. And to attempt to install an unelected politician in Venezuela is okay by you? really???????

Edited February 12, 20214 yr by dieter

 

3 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

 

THey've had to do it in Queensland, NSW, WA and SA in the last month as well. Or haven't you noticed?

10 minutes ago, dieter said:

THey've had to do it in Queensland, NSW, WA and SA in the last month as well. Or haven't you noticed?

Now come on @dieter. Dan Andrews is an Essendon supporter. Over the past year he's made some good calls and some questionable calls (including backing Eddie McGuire to retain his presidency). The good calls must of course be discounted somewhat because, as stated earlier,  he is an Essendon supporter.

47 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

 

Titus should know better.

By putting the quotation marks in he is suggesting this is what Dan said. He didn't and Titus should hang his head in shame. Lockdown is no laughing matter.

 

1 hour ago, dieter said:

So, a white washer!. Him Sung started it: of course he did. Same in Vietnam. So you destroy North Korea so that there is not one brick on brick in the whole country, you rape Vietnam using all kinds of proscribed chemical weapons but the US  didn't start it so what's the problem???  So when Hilary said, We came, we saw, he died as she watched Gaddafi being butchered is not evidence? And what the hell do you know about Lebanon in the early '80's? And, no doubt, the US Turkey shoot during the first so-called Gulf War was justified. Of course it was, by the Western Press. And to attempt to install an unelected politician in Venezuela is okay by you? really???????

Dieter you are a master of obfuscation. I picked you up on your mistakes & instead of fessing up u waffle on about other stuff. Nice logical rejoinder about Lebanon BTW. 

And blaming the US for Venezuelas problems is not worth responding to.

I can see by your retorts that you blame them for everything. You remind me of my late 60's & 70's lefty mates who idolised Mao & Pol Pot whilst they were butchering their people.

Anyhow I'm not going to subject Demonlanders to any more of your kookie historical views so goodnight & goodluck.

47 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Titus should know better.

By putting the quotation marks in he is suggesting this is what Dan said. He didn't and Titus should hang his head in shame. Lockdown is no laughing matter.

 

Dan Andrews good.

Titus O'Reilly bad.

Got it.

11 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Dieter you are a master of obfuscation. I picked you up on your mistakes & instead of fessing up u waffle on about other stuff. Nice logical rejoinder about Lebanon BTW. 

And blaming the US for Venezuelas problems is not worth responding to.

I can see by your retorts that you blame them for everything. You remind me of my late 60's & 70's lefty mates who idolised Mao & Pol Pot whilst they were butchering their people.

Anyhow I'm not going to subject Demonlanders to any more of your kookie historical views so goodnight & goodluck.

Toodle Pip. Have a good life.

1 hour ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Dan Andrews good.

Titus O'Reilly bad.

Got it.

Talk about drawing a long bow P2J(Predictive name tag I hope too - well done on it)

Titus is my favourite MFC supporter. Highly intelligent writer, witty etc, and his comment was beneath him. Doesn't make him bad. Just a smarty-pants with no radar turned on.

Dan - ???     I hate to see bomber tragics whov'e lived through the Danks/Hird debacle then get misquoted or verballed. That's for the police or filth supporters to do.

Good or bad - ? - depends on the issue.

 

7 hours ago, dieter said:

They are not as different as you think, Db. Hence the relevance of this debate. You are aware, no doubt, of the wars the US has perpetrated since WW2? Allow me to list some of  them: Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Cambodia, Cuba, Lebanon, Bay of Pigs, Laos 1953, their part in the IRanian Coup 1953, Dominican Republic, Lebanon 1981, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, First Gulf War, arming IRaq and Iran pre first Gulf war, arming Saudi Arabia to rape Yemen, Sudan...We won't even mention the coups by stealth in Chile, Columbia, Puerto Rica, Venezuela, Honduras, Bolivia etc

In other words, this notion which is a direct descendant of the notion of White Supremacy, a notion inherited from the British, that it has the right to wage war and interfere in any country it chooses to. I believe it is the reason the US is such a basket case - simply because from day one of its history it has lied to itself and to the world about what it stands for.

Absolutely agree with you. The US have no right to be invading other countries. 
 

4 hours ago, Demon17 said:

Are your ears painted on?

First Sea Lord is NOT the same as a Rear Admiral Officer posting.

One is a political appointment, the other is a professional officer appointment. 

He would have had trouble leading his battalion on the western front when he left the Admiralty from the deck of a warship presumably anchored in the Channel. (Being an army officer at the time also)

Maybe you read that somewhere in your research and thought it sounded OK?

He was instrumental though in having the R N fully prepared for war - which was admirable!

You are clearly not well.

He commanded the Navy.

Many books have been written on it.

Gallipoli was such a failure he considered suicide for years.

Why do you argue idiotic things?

 

20 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Do they have a day in northern Ireland,  where the protestants  celebrate a battle where the protestants beat the Catholics

Yes. The Battle of Boyne. Protestants won a battle against the Catholics  Many people slaughtered and it’s a public holiday in Northern Ireland. And the Orange Men walk through the town

Vlad steps down from Crown.

He wouldnt be into money laundering would he?

Not like him not to do his job? 

Sucking up to the boss?

Where have i heard all this before ........

I'm going to make the observation that this thread has descending into uselessness and ask that the mods close it.

33 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I'm going to make the observation that this thread has descending into uselessness and ask that the mods close it.

About bloody time.

29 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

I'm going to make the observation that this thread has descending into uselessness and ask that the mods close it.

Agree. 
The thread is now the mental equivalent of a face piercing performed by a leper in a filthy prison with rusty nail.

A painful experience - distorted and ridiculous.

 

23 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Agree. 
The thread is now the mental equivalent of a face piercing performed by a leper in a filthy prison with rusty nail.

A painful experience - distorted and ridiculous.

 

That is graphic Biff! 

Hard to find leper that’ll do piercings these days. 

maybe after lockdown is over

3 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Dieter you are a master of obfuscation. I picked you up on your mistakes & instead of fessing up u waffle on about other stuff. Nice logical rejoinder about Lebanon BTW. 

And blaming the US for Venezuelas problems is not worth responding to.

I can see by your retorts that you blame them for everything. You remind me of my late 60's & 70's lefty mates who idolised Mao & Pol Pot whilst they were butchering their people.

Anyhow I'm not going to subject Demonlanders to any more of your kookie historical views so goodnight & goodluck.

Yes- another drunken friend of mine likened Ho Chi Minh to a glorious freedom fighter.

Unfortunately his results were famine, genocide, poverty and disaster- as with ALL adherents to Marxist philosophy.

Why people keep repeating “ but that wasn’t real communism” is beyond me.

The results never vary.

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

Yes. The Battle of Boyne. Protestants won a battle against the Catholics  Many people slaughtered and it’s a public holiday in Northern Ireland. And the Orange Men walk through the town

So this argument about the British not celebrating northern Ireland invasion is not true.