8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Lyon was at the helm during some pretty flaky stuff as well.
Also was the Mayor of Hollywood Boulevard.

Agreed, but at the end of Lyon's term , esp 96 and 97  when the team was problematic and dysfunctional at Board level, he barely played due to back injury. 11 games over 2 seasons and was completely ineffective on field .

I'm not sure about Hollywood Bvd., but I saw him walking like a 90 year old bent over in 1996 along Canterbury Road and thought he'd never play again. He did in '98 and we were just pipped IMO for the flag that year. 

18 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Langdon went to Melbourne Grammar, his family own a very successful business. Bedford also went to Melbourne Grammar, but his family hails from Halls Creek. Steve May, same school - but from Darwin. Spargo, the same, but from Albury. 4 kids from the same school but 4 very different backgrounds.

Salo went to Brighton, but his parents run a cafe, as does Max's mum.

I know Max is just trying to describe the culture shock when walking in and finding a group of players, but it is a little tedious. 

Gawn found the place too sterile and professional. Scully and Trengove (private school kids from the burbs and the bush) walked in and were the most professional people in the place and thought the place was a dumpster fire.

 

It's very different nowadays to what it was. Most kids coming through TAC find themselves at APS private schools. 

14 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

 Neitz > Lyon.

If you can't see that I cannot help you.

Comparing leaders is a difficult one for me, because leadership can vary so much, even on and off a football field.

I think both are terrific captains. Neita led the way with his physicality but his inconsistent goal kicking (you knew if Neita was on or off by his first kick at goal) meant that it compromised some of his leadership ability. But loved him as a player.

Whereas, Gary, I loved him too and the thing that would let him down was his body, particularly later on, but the way he got around players and impacted passages of play and kicked straight, put him just ahead of Neita for mine.

I always remember how he would almost father the Wiz and to my mind, when Gaz retired, Wiz was always going to go home. Gary had a way with those around him that seemed to foster belief and family.

I can see why you would say Neita was a better leader, but I don't think it's as clear cut as "if you can't see that I cannot help you". But that's just me.

A David Neitz story from an impeccable source ...

When Neitz injured his neck and was forced to retire he was eligible for an AFL mandated injury payment from the club of several hundreds of thousands of dollars but, because of the club's dire financial circumstances at the time, he didn't take the payout - that's the kind of leader he was.

There have been various cases made for a number of our captains and I'm not sure if Junior McDonald has been mentioned, but he should be and is under-rated.  We've generally been well-served in this area.

Anyway, this thread is about Maxy and I am genuinely hopeful that he can be the best of the lot and lead us to the much longed for flag.

20 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Gawn smoked and Pendlebury played basketball. Two little facts you probably haven’t heard before. 

Absolute gold.

I'm hearing Jack Watts was a very good junior basketballer too. I'll look to clarify.

14 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

A David Neitz story from an impeccable source ...

When Neitz injured his neck and was forced to retire he was eligible for an AFL mandated injury payment from the club of several hundreds of thousands of dollars but, because of the club's dire financial circumstances at the time, he didn't take the payout - that's the kind of leader he was.

There have been various cases made for a number of our captains and I'm not sure if Junior McDonald has been mentioned, but he should be and is under-rated.  We've generally been well-served in this area.

Anyway, this thread is about Maxy and I am genuinely hopeful that he can be the best of the lot and lead us to the much longed for flag.

With all due respect, Pollyanna, wouldn't any such injury payment be covered by the club's insurer and therefore not impact on the club's finances?

1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

With all due respect, Pollyanna, wouldn't any such injury payment be covered by the club's insurer and therefore not impact on the club's finances?

That's not the information I have.

1 minute ago, Return to Glory said:

Absolute gold.

I'm hearing Jack Watts was a very good junior basketballer too. I'll look to clarify.

Two animal facts I've learned from football commentators are that (1) fish rot from the head and (2) cat's apparently have hard heads.

 

Just now, Pollyanna said:

That's not the information I have.

Fair enough. You've got a source you're happy with so I'll accept what you say.

10 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Absolute gold.

I'm hearing Jack Watts was a very good junior basketballer too. I'll look to clarify.

 

Jack Watts... didn't he debut against Collingwood..?

 

48 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

A David Neitz story from an impeccable source ...

When Neitz injured his neck and was forced to retire he was eligible for an AFL mandated injury payment from the club of several hundreds of thousands of dollars but, because of the club's dire financial circumstances at the time, he didn't take the payout - that's the kind of leader he was.

 

sounds like a nice bloke and he was every time he came in 

as with this story I can say the complete opposite. 

My little video store in his local area is all i will say 

 

mark

 

5 minutes ago, markc said:

sounds like a nice bloke and he was every time he came in 

as with this story I can say the complete opposite. 

My little video store in his local area is all i will say 

 

mark

 

No, say more because I’m failing to join the dots. 

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by Ethan Tremblay

2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

No, say more because I’m not catching your drift. 

 

let just say 

I owned a video shop  you know those old things people used to rent to watch movies on 

people rented them 

returned them late and owed money 

 

1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

There have been various cases made for a number of our captains and I'm not sure if Junior McDonald has been mentioned, but he should be and is under-rated.  We've generally been well-served in this area.

 

if you think we've been well-served in the area of captains over the past 30 years, I'm not sure I can help you

We've been desperately lacking strong leadership over the years.  Hopefully now with Gawn and Viney, things will turn

12 minutes ago, DubDee said:

if you think we've been well-served in the area of captains over the past 30 years, I'm not sure I can help you

Let's be honest, 99% of us have absolutely no idea about leadership within the club. Captains viewed as 'good' by the public are simply those that play well in winning sides. Case in point is Cotchin, who suddenly transformed (in the eyes of the media and public at least) from a terrible leader to RFC's greatest ever captain on the back of a couple of flags. 

It goes without saying that leadership is important, but how anyone thinks they are in a position to assess a captain's worth from outside the walls of the club goes beyond me.

 

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

if you think we've been well-served in the area of captains over the past 30 years, I'm not sure I can help you

We've been desperately lacking strong leadership over the years.  Hopefully now with Gawn and Viney, things will turn

There have been plenty of varied problems at MFC over the past 30 years but the performance of our captains is at the bottom of that list.  Apart from the Neeld debacle they've been good selections who have represented the club strongly:

1981–1987	Robert Flower
1988–1990	Greg Healy
1991–1997	Garry Lyon
1998–1999	Todd Viney
2000–2008	David Neitz
2009–2010	James McDonald
2011	Brad Green
2012–2013	Jack Trengove/Jack Grimes
2014	Nathan Jones/Jack Grimes
2015–2016	Nathan Jones
2017–2019	Nathan Jones/Jack Viney
2020–	Max Gawn

9 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

There have been plenty of varied problems at MFC over the past 30 years but the performance of our captains is at the bottom of that list.  Apart from the Neeld debacle they've been good selections who have represented the club strongly:

1981–1987	Robert Flower
1988–1990	Greg Healy
1991–1997	Garry Lyon
1998–1999	Todd Viney
2000–2008	David Neitz
2009–2010	James McDonald
2011	Brad Green
2012–2013	Jack Trengove/Jack Grimes
2014	Nathan Jones/Jack Grimes
2015–2016	Nathan Jones
2017–2019	Nathan Jones/Jack Viney
2020–	Max Gawn

Aside from the first few, not a great list of leaders. especially when you compare to other teams. 
Some Great players though. 

On 7/22/2020 at 1:26 PM, A F said:

I find this bit really strange:

He found his way back into the team in the middle of the 2015 season, and soon made a breakthrough. From there, Gawn hasn't looked back.

"It was purely just marking the football in a game against St Kilda. I took maybe two or three marks and all of a sudden, I felt like I belonged," he said.

We decided to play two rucks against Geelong in 2015. It was Corey Enright's 300th. I was at the game and high fived Gus and Jetts after the game. Max hadn't been in the team and was brought in for this game. He took 2 or 3 really strong contested marks and to my eye, hasn't looked back since. 

It could have been that we played St Kilda after this and that's when he felt really at home, but to me, he exuded a confidence in that Geelong game.

My son played footy for Ormond in 2015.Max attended games regularly as he played there..On the Saturday before the Sunday Geelong game he was at the Ormond  game.I am on speaking terms with Max and as we walked out onto the ground at 3/4 time I said to him : You’re playing good footy Max keep it up,He said yeh but l have to take more marks and kick more accurately.I said don’t worry it’s going to happen.It did the next day and has continued.I am not claiming bragging rights but......! Gee he is great - as a player and a person.

I wish Neitz was involved with the club.  I guess its pretty rare for a top 3 legend of the last 40 years to still be involved at their club.

I actually saw a video yesterday of what looked like Matthew Pavlich reading the news over in Perth...  was I imagining things?

6 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

I wish Neitz was involved with the club.  I guess its pretty rare for a top 3 legend of the last 40 years to still be involved at their club.

I actually saw a video yesterday of what looked like Matthew Pavlich reading the news over in Perth...  was I imagining things?

 

He’s been doing the sports reports on the news for a few years over here now. 

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Just now, Ethan Tremblay said:

He’s been doing the sports reports on the news for a few years over here now. 

If he plays his cards right he could be the next Bec Judd.

But not until he starts paying the Dailymail to print stories about his Instagram posts.  Then he will be at her level.

On 7/22/2020 at 2:57 PM, jnrmac said:

The game on the weekend against hawthorn was the complete game. can't recall a better rucking exhibition for the Dees even going back as far as Peter Moore, Ditterich, Jeff White etc.

You missed David Allday!

12 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

I wish Neitz was involved with the club.  I guess its pretty rare for a top 3 legend of the last 40 years to still be involved at their club.

I actually saw a video yesterday of what looked like Matthew Pavlich reading the news over in Perth...  was I imagining things?

Things might have changed recently because of Covid, but isn't Neitz still involved in the coterie or commercial side of the club? I seem to recall him being involved in fundraising or glad-handling sponsors in some sort of official capacity. I have no idea (if mymemory is correct) whether it was a paid or voluntary role. 

Judging on-field leadership from the outside is difficult. Add in the complete lack of organisational leadership we had for a very long time and it becomes impossible.

Coaches and Captains are often unfairly maligned when entire organisations fail.

In the period between the end of the Daniher era and Roos coming on board, I think our organisation could have ruined the career of any coach in the competition including Alastair Clarkson.

Without the AFL intervening and shaking up Melbourne at a board room level, Roos would likely have become another victim. That said, Roos had enough clout to ensure the everything was in place before signing.