POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Richmond

[Beetle 4,660]

37 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Would love to hear what Roos thinks are our issues

I wouldn’t. The self indulgence would be sickening. 

[Deefensive Language 124]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Derm has his say.

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f?__twitter_impression=true

Melbourne needs "shock therapy" according to Derm. He said many of our players go out there "happy to be AFL footballers". He questions whether we're willing to put in the hard work to get things done. 

I think he's talking about Melksham, Tomlinson etc. Far too many (and very noticeable to non-supporters)

[titan_uranus 25,020]

4 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

This is absolutely spot on. 

Furthermore, after the departure of Hogan, the FD put their eggs in the wrong basket, banking on Weiderman being a KPF and giving up pick 6 (ben king...) to acquire May.  May is top player, but its turned out to be an abject misreading of the list requirements.  

After rolling the dice on SW to then not give him games 18 months down the line is utterly baffling. He is only 23, give him a string of games out of the goal square. If he gets beaten, so be it. But he will drag a tall away from Fritsch and Tmac.  

Bringing May in at the end of 2018 was the right call. We'd just come off a year of being the highest scoring side with a shocking defence. 

The problem wasn't bringing in May, it's that we knew we needed to make TMac and Weideman work and we've failed, so much so that we're not even playing Weideman despite crying out for him.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Derm has his say.

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f?__twitter_impression=true

Have to agree with him. Too many plodders. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

Good to see Dermott noticed pretty much the same as people in here today. 
The MFC has always been happy to just be in the Comp since Norm left

How often do we notice Our players not gut running both ways, while other teams do it as a standard 

Once again we have learnt nothing since Roos and Jackson left...it seems

[Deefensive Language 124]

Both Derm and King agreed that no-one tags Oliver because "he doesn't hurt you."

But as a 2 time B&F winner and All-Australian at 22, he has time to turn things around like Lachie Neale has.

[Hogan2014 390]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f
 

He’s spot on .. we have no idea either in the coaches box or on the field 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

7 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-melbourne-loss-to-richmond-dermott-brereton-on-fox-footy-the-first-crack/news-story/3b4c413869d50ad8be639aca2bc5f81f
 

He’s spot on .. we have no idea either in the coaches box or on the field 

I can’t imagine being in a job for 6 years (2 with Roos) and still having no idea

Seriously “It just don’t add up...”

[Hogan2014 390]

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I can’t imagine being in a job for 6 years (2 with Roos) and still having no idea

Seriously “It just don’t add up...”

Seriously something is a miss ... either the players are thickheads or lazy or Goodwin can’t coach 

[Go the Biff 3,432]

44 minutes ago, Deefensive Language said:

I think he's talking about Melksham, Tomlinson etc. Far too many (and very noticeable to non-supporters)

Yeah ? I think he's aiming higher. Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw...and probably Trac

Edited July 5, 2020 by Go the Biff
sp

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

2 hours ago, Beetle said:

This is a ludicrous statement.

The coach has a responsibility to teach his players the required elements to improve their skills in order to execute a game plan.

If the players don’t possess those skills, then the game plan will not work. 

Dont tell me the players are able to execute the required skills at training and simply can’t do it on game day. That’s BS. If they can’t do it under the pressure of a game, then they can’t do it, it’s that simple.

There is of course the real possibility we have brought in players with poor skills and that seems to be the case. But this is the clubs fault, overseen by the coach. 
 

While I agree Goodwin can’t kick or handball the ball for them, he is responsible for the implementation of a game plan that works and in turn teaching the players the required skills to be successful under the pressure of AFL football.

 

edit - I will add Saty, that I do agree the players do need to take some responsibility  here. I don’t COMPLETELY disagree with you.

In addition to this - if the players don't possess the skills to execute your gameplan, then you need to alter the gameplan to give the players at your disposal the best chance of success.

[Beetle 4,660]

29 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Good to see Dermott noticed pretty much the same as people in here today. 
The MFC has always been happy to just be in the Comp since Norm left

How often do we notice Our players not gut running both ways, while other teams do it as a standard 

Once again we have learnt nothing since Roos and Jackson left...it seems

The team in 87/88 had the drive under Northey. Those players busted their backsides and played for each other. They were tough, hard and driven.

Sadly they just lacked the overall natural talent and polish of the Carlton and Hawthorn sides of that era.

We punched well above our weight, but those boys weren’t just happy to be in the comp, they wanted to win.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

12 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Seriously something is a miss ... either the players are thickheads or lazy or Goodwin can’t coach 

both

[Adam The God 30,261]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In addition to this - if the players don't possess the skills to execute your gameplan, then you need to alter the gameplan to give the players at your disposal the best chance of success.

He's had a large say in our list recruitment and strategy over a number of years. I don't think he gets to lay the blame on the list either.

I suspect he's out of ideas though.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Mate Gold coast and Hawks will cream us.

Watch Ben King towel up Steven May just to rub our faces in it

May is one of the few in form shouldn't happen. but we will see in the next 2 weeks if we can potentially be a top 8 side or a bottom 3 side.

[dworship 3,342]

3 hours ago, loges said:

So you only comment after a draw?

Thanks for your contribution, with a name like Loges I'll assume you're just an empty vessel like the rest of the .... people in the media

[dworship 3,342]

1 hour ago, Lampers said:

Umpire #23 Finlay showed absolutely zero feel for the game. A consistent string of logic contradicting decisions such as this.

Melksham’s dive and 50 was silly, but it was no worse than plenty of other time wasting efforts that went unpunished through the rest of the game.

Not sure If was Finlay who also didn’t pay the obvious drop on Martin when tackled or the non-50 when a frustrated Martin gave a shove to a Melbourne player who marked the ball in the clear, or didn’t pay the 50 when Higgins (I think, maybe Baker) did the old “Which player?” theatrics to slow things down when it was clear as day on the mic which the player the ball was meant to go to (no crowd noise excuse).

I thought Melbourne also got a couple of fortunate ones.

And this makes up for all the momentum stealing and goals that get kicked against us? I'm no longer a happy clapper when they pay us a free and the opposition take 30 secs to return the ball while they remonstrate with the umpire. HEY AFL!!  PAY ATTENTION! THERE IS A RULE CALLED DELAY OF GAME, START ENFORCING THAT AND SEE HOW MUCH THE GAME SPEEDS UP!

Edited July 5, 2020 by dworship

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

17 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

May is one of the few in form shouldn't happen. but we will see in the next 2 weeks if we can potentially be a top 8 side or a bottom 3 side.

King has 10 cm on him plus reach and is quick off the mark. He also has a highly skilled Suns midfield delivering him the ball. May's form has been ok but he is outmatched when it comes to King.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

30 minutes ago, Beetle said:

The team in 87/88 had the drive under Northey. Those players busted their backsides and played for each other. They were tough, hard and driven.

Sadly they just lacked the overall natural talent and polish of the Carlton and Hawthorn sides of that era.

We punched well above our weight, but those boys weren’t just happy to be in the comp, they wanted to win.

They were close. Still lost crucial games that made us finish 5th  We were just below the top sides in those years overall

But i was a huge Swooper fan

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Goodwin does not demand excellence, his teaching methods are not good enough. I am sure he wants the best, but he is not capable of achieving it

We need an experienced Coach. ( We needed to have Roos for way longer than 3 years) This Club has been down too long

 

And that just about sums up our lot SW.

Went from a top line coach who didn't stay the course needed, to another untried rookie.

5 years minimum was a must for Roos given the depths we plumbed from 2012 till his appointment.

3 seasons was a band aid fix.  It held till the 2018 prelim then the gangreen returned.

[Hogan2014 390]

What ever happen with Roos running both ways??? Goodwin had 2 years under him with this expectation

[Nascent 9,215]

Well today was yet another frustratingly familiar experience where poor skill execution and inefficient use of the ball forward of 50 was the staple of our play. With the large bulk of our best 22 now 4 years + into the system, we should be seeing more consistency of effort, decision making and skill execution from this group.  Whats more worrying is the development/output of our players all seeming to stagnate with only Petracca showing signs of improving on his previous year.

Having said that, I believe a lot of our deficiencies could be addressed at the selection table. 

1. Bring in a second tall KPF.

Be it Brown or Weideman to not only help with a target inside forward 50 but to help with representation on the wings for the bailout down the line kicks and relieve Gawn in the ruck. This will allow Gawn time to rest up forward on occasion where he has proven to be a threat. Just on Gawn, I can barely recall him taking a contested mark this year, a  real feature of his game and one that can seriously influence an outcome of a match. Having an extra tall in our line up can give Gawn time to push forward and back and influence the contest there.

2. Bring in a second genuine KPB.

I had hoped for Petty to be in this role but due to injury that's not longer possible. We recruited Lever as a star intercept 3rd floating defender who would regular intercept mark and control the backline. Now I don't think he is actually performing badly at the moment as a key back, but I believe we could further utilize his skill sets by bringing in another defender to perform this role. At the moment that person is O.Mac and while he doesn't get much love here I feel a May, Omac, Lever combo is a more potent defense than a May, Smith, Lever combo.

3. Smith to the forward line or dropped.

I see what the football department see in him from an athleticism point of view, however he just doesn't have the footy IQ in defense. Perhaps he needs time to get familiar with his role but he is costing us a lot currently with his decisions to fly at certain contests and poorly checking his man. Up forward he could become a real handful with his ability to spring and mark at its highest point as well as bringing his speed to create defensive pressure in the forward 50. Unfortunately we have a lot of medium forwards at the moment so would be fighting Hannan, AVB, Melksham, Fritsch for a spot. If he is to be persisted with, I would happily trial him ahead of Hannan and AVB. 

4. Harmes and Brayshaw to get more midfield time.

These two play their best footy on-ball and Harmes is being absolutely wasted down back. I don't have the answer to how you would allocate appropriate midfield time to all of Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Harmes, but I feel the balance isn't right and we are under utilising players in this area of the ground.

These are just my opinions.

I can't imagine Goodwin will survive the year if 2020 continues on its trajectory towards a 2019 like result. We are tired and angry and I think the board knows we are running out of patience.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

And that just about sums up our lot SW.

Went from a top line coach who didn't stay the course needed, to another untried rookie.

5 years minimum was a must for Roos given the depths we plumbed from 2012 till his appointment.

3 seasons was a band aid fix.  It held till the 2018 prelim then the gangreen returned.

Correct...

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

3 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Well today was yet another frustratingly familiar experience where poor skill execution and inefficient use of the ball forward of 50 was the staple of our play. With the large bulk of our best 22 now 4 years + into the system, we should be seeing more consistency of effort, decision making and skill execution from this group.  Whats more worrying is the development/output of our players all seeming to stagnate with only Petracca showing signs of improving on his previous year.

Having said that, I believe a lot of our deficiencies could be addressed at the selection table. 

1. Bring in a second tall KPF.

Be it Brown or Weideman to not only help with a target inside forward 50 but to help with representation on the wings for the bailout down the line kicks and relieve Gawn in the ruck. This will allow Gawn time to rest up forward on occasion where he has proven to be a threat. Just on Gawn, I can barely recall him taking a contested mark this year, a  real feature of his game and one that can seriously influence an outcome of a match. Having an extra tall in our line up can give Gawn time to push forward and back and influence the contest there.

2. Bring in a second genuine KPB.

I had hoped for Petty to be in this role but due to injury that's not longer possible. We recruited Lever as a star intercept 3rd floating defender who would regular intercept mark and control the backline. Now I don't think he is actually performing badly at the moment as a key back, but I believe we could further utilize his skill sets by bringing in another defender to perform this role. At the moment that person is O.Mac and while he doesn't get much love here I feel a May, Omac, Lever combo is a more potent defense than a May, Smith, Lever combo.

3. Smith to the forward line or dropped.

I see what the football department see in him from an athleticism point of view, however he just doesn't have the footy IQ in defense. Perhaps he needs time to get familiar with his role but he is costing us a lot currently with his decisions to fly at certain contests and poorly checking his man. Up forward he could become a real handful with his ability to spring and mark at its highest point as well as bringing his speed to create defensive pressure in the forward 50. Unfortunately we have a lot of medium forwards at the moment so would be fighting Hannan, AVB, Melksham, Fritsch for a spot. If he is to be persisted with, I would happily trial him ahead of Hannan and AVB. 

4. Harmes and Brayshaw to get more midfield time.

These two play their best footy on-ball and Harmes is being absolutely wasted down back. I don't have the answer to how you would allocate appropriate midfield time to all of Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Brayshaw and Harmes, but I feel the balance isn't right and we are under utilising players in this area of the ground.

These are just my opinions.

I can't imagine Goodwin will survive the year if 2020 continues on its trajectory towards a 2019 like result. We are tired and angry and I think the board knows we are running out of patience.

The second tall forward is very much needed if it's Jackson, Brown or Weid or 2 of them and drop T.Mac because he has been terrible.

We haven't got a genuine KPB O.Mac is pretty much the same as Smith it was a massive blunder by Goodwin to get rid of Frost. Lever doesn't know how to play the floating 3rd tall now he is a terrible footballer drop him. Gawn to get back and be the 3rd floating tall down back he done a great job doing that against Carlton he hasn't done it since.

Keep Smith down back or drop him he doesn't have the smarts to play forward.

Harmes should get more midfield time but Brayshaw should be drop to smarten him up like it did in his 3rd in the Brownlow year.

[John Demonic 5,797]

Deebrief notification on phone "Goody has 5 more weeks" did not see game so the result was spoilt. Saved myself 2 hours of frustration then i suppose? Go dees

Edited July 5, 2020 by John Demonic