Minimum 10 wins with the fixture we have 

a consistent brand, week in, week out regardless of changes 

Improvement and development from players. 

pride and passion for the jumper every single week regardless of the result. 

21 hours ago, Demonland said:

Double Bogey? Albatross?

Double bogey = repeat of 2019; Eagle = making the granny; Albatross = Winning the lot.

56 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Look I know you want the best for the club, but the benchmarks have to be realistic.

When was the last time that happened full-stop?

FTR, over the last 3 years Richmond has one last quarter where they outscored the opposition by 40 points and so did Melbourne and both were in thrashings not come from behind wins.

Ok when was the  last time we came home in the last Q and smashed an opposition?

Other Clubs do it to us reguliarly

I don't buy the "We're coming from a long way back" mantra. We didn't start 2019 with an advantage because we were coming off a prelim. We're starting the 2020 season at the same place every other club is: 0-0.

We showed incremental improvement every year before 2019. Given that we didn't have a bunch of older players start to decline, that's enough evidence for me that 2019 was simply a year from hell. 

If we don't play finals, heads should roll. We all overrate our own players, but I genuinely believe that, on paper at least, our list is good enough to be top 4. We're as well-placed now to pinch a flag as any time since 1998 IMO. For me, the pass mark is entering the finals with genuine hope that we can go all the way.

 

 

 

On 2/13/2020 at 1:19 PM, old dee said:

Finishing in eighth place anything else is a  definite failure that would see the club severely hampered financially.  

Minimum of 14 wins in the home & away fixture, with at least two finals wins. Any more than that would be far too unexpected; however, I'd consider 14/2 is very possible - depends on how the players are managed, Goodwin's courage and standards, and improvements where these may legitimately be expected as DL fanatics have discussed. 

11 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

. We all overrate our own players, but I genuinely believe that, on paper at least, our list is good enough to be top 4. 

 

 

 

I watched the post of Garry Lyon's 10 goals in the 1994 final. (and saw it live).  Looking at the talent that day such as Lyon, Stynes, Tingay, Lovett (B and G) Ox, Febeys, Obst and Neitz (the best CHB Carey played on he said.) Wight Viney etc,... says to me the current list is nowhere near as good as that one, nor the 1998 finals list for that matter.

 

I just think our list IS overrated at present, as shown in some pundits lists of A Graders - we only have 1 legitimate - Big Max for example.

We are still in re-build IMO talent-wise

 

Taking in consideration the success of 2018, I think it has to be 10 wins or finals for Goodwin to retain his job & for the club to show progression from last seasons debacle.

anything less.....see ya Goody

2 hours ago, Demon17 said:

I watched the post of Garry Lyon's 10 goals in the 1994 final.

I agree, that team was unquestionably better than our current list and should have achieved more than they did. Lots of very good players, but never really clicked all at once. Also had some truly terrible seasons between the relatively successful years in the 90's. 

2 hours ago, Demon17 said:

I just think our list IS overrated at present

I don't think our list is overrated as such - I think we've got a number of key players with a huge differential between their best and worst. A lot hinges on May and Lever showing the form they've shown at previous clubs, and guys like Brayshaw, Melksham and TMac playing something near their best. The only teams that I believe are clearly ahead of us talent-wise are Richmond, Collingwood and the Giants.

I think we've got the cattle to mix it with most sides - the rest is up to the game plan and mental side of things (in other words, we're screwed).

On 2/14/2020 at 6:39 AM, Accepting Mediocrity said:

I don't think our list is overrated as such - I think we've got a number of key players with a huge differential between their best and worst. A lot hinges on May and Lever showing the form they've shown at previous clubs, and guys like Brayshaw, Melksham and TMac playing something near their best. The only teams that I believe are clearly ahead of us talent-wise are Richmond, Collingwood and the Giants.

I think we've got the cattle to mix it with most sides - the rest is up to the game plan and mental side of things (in other words, we're screwed).

I’d add WC into that mix, with Kelly thrown in there they have some serious skill. All other teams I’d say we’re on par or better. Obviously a lot of it depends on our ability to get our best team out in the park. 

Last year we had an awful run in the pre-season and leading into the main season. This year we’ve had a good pre-season with some hiccups lately. Hopefully that’s all they are, hiccups. 

Too many variables, let's just see if we can keep our key players on the park most of the season. Starting with Lever, May, Tom Mac and Gawn.

If we miss the finals this season, it’s clearly a fail.

The corollary of that must be that making finals is a pass.

That said, I want to see more than that.

In particular, I’m interested to see how Goodwin goes in terms of the game plan and getting the most out of all the players on our list.

Good coaches tend to get the most out of all players especially the not so talented ones - through playing them in the right position, giving them realistic roles, instilling confidence etc.

In this regard, there are several players on the list who I don’t know, but it seems from the track reports that they are developing nicely - and with good coaching, they could make an impact this year, eg, Bedford, Jordan, Sparrow, Chandler etc.

Add to that our new recruits through the recent trade and draft period, and perhaps also newly available existing players coming off the long term injury list, and I think the coaching group now has enough to show their true ability.

In short, the 2019 excuses, which I regard as reasonable, are no longer present this year. Goodwin simply has to perform.

 

Double figure wins has Goodwin retain his job. Pass mark is finals. Expectation is finals +1, winning it all is not out of the realms of possibility. Where we land will be based on a combo of fitness, continuity of play with our best 16, level of pressure from our depth players in 17-27 range, an improved game style that defends the faster sides.  

On 2/14/2020 at 2:49 PM, Demon17 said:

I watched the post of Garry Lyon's 10 goals in the 1994 final. (and saw it live).  Looking at the talent that day such as Lyon, Stynes, Tingay, Lovett (B and G) Ox, Febeys, Obst and Neitz (the best CHB Carey played on he said.) Wight Viney etc,... says to me the current list is nowhere near as good as that one, nor the 1998 finals list for that matter.

 

I just think our list IS overrated at present, as shown in some pundits lists of A Graders - we only have 1 legitimate - Big Max for example.

We are still in re-build IMO talent-wise

 

I am also leaning this way. Our defence is still very shaky. May has questions over his body and Lever needs to find some form now that hes done a full pre season. I don't and never have rated Oscar. Club is way too relient on him and nothing will change this year. Teams will expose him for his flaws and his speed off the mark.

I think our midfield will be the key. Viney, Petracca, Oliver and Brayshaw all have had majority of full pre season. I expect to see a whole new Petracca add a different element to our on ball brigade. Adding Langdon and Tomlinson helps with our outside run.

For our forward line to improve Weideman has to step up. I have been his biggest supporter, and besides the finals in 2018 he's done nothing in his career. 2020 looms as a big year for him. He looks bigger, so its time to start holding onto those contested marks. Fritsch playing full time forward will be a huge plus to our dynamic. His ability to play out of the square and become a dangerous options frees up McDonald and Weideman to really get on their bike up and down the ground. Melksham is crucial to our side also. His ability to efficiently use the ball to our forwards advantage was something that we were very poor in last year. 

I still think our depth is quite poor. If May goes down then we are screwed. Max and Pruess goes down then again, who do we look too? Jackson is still far to slight to play the main rucking role. What happens if McDonald goes down again? 

Hopefully improvement changes my opinion. But i still think we have some holes on our list.

Edited February 16, 20205 yr by dazzledavey36

If i don't see variety, and not just in the LAST QUARTER, this year, along with controlled clever aggression, i will be very disappointed.

17 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I still think our depth is quite poor. If May goes down then we are screwed. Max and Pruess goes down then again, who do we look too? Jackson is still far to slight to play the main rucking role. What happens if McDonald goes down again? 

Agree to an extent, but there aren't too many clubs who could easily cover their 2 best ruckman going down. Actually, we're probably better placed than most, having Jackson, Tomlinson or Weideman potentially form part of a makeshift ruck rotation. I share your concern with key position depth - if May or TMac miss big chunks of the year, we're in big trouble if others don't show significant improvement (although I haven't given up on Weideman just yet).