Dunkley and Rivers

[Deemania since 56 6,740]

On 12/27/2019 at 4:56 PM, BAMF said:

Happy to see these 2 along with Sparrow, Jordan, Bedford and Chandler develop at Casey this year. There will likely be a few opportunities but I hope they are few and far between.

Hoping that Jackson and Pickett are the ones to push there way into the team.

It is - to say the least - phantastique to have so many younger players (and types of players) to develop at Casey - the scramble is not yet on for positions in the big league, that will come later; at this point, I am just very happy that the ranks up and down are thickening with talent and room for growth and development. Augers well for this year and a handful of subsequent years to come.

[Fritta and Turner 4,609]

22 hours ago, Demons3031 said:

Am also remembering some of the panelists - Mike Williamson, Butch Gale, Chicken Smallhorn, Bert Deacon....any others come to mind?

Might be getting the shows mixed up but Jack Edwards, Ted Whitten, Allan Aylett come to mind, Potter from the pies?

[Vagg 2,449]

2 hours ago, Damo said:

Bruce Andrews was one of the first (along with separately RDB) to make a video about doing a drop kick. It was De Rigueur to study Bruce's lecture.

The rather stern Bruce would be on World of Sport and maybe on Football Inquest.

Funny you should mention Bruce Andrew.  I am in possession of a small booklet called "Australian Football Handbook".  Its author is Bruce Andrew, Secretary of the Australian National Football Council.  Dunno how old it is (as it doesn't have a print date), but the types of kicks that Bruce lists might give some clue to its age.  The kicks listed are as follows:

• The Drop Kick,
• The Stab Kick,
• The Punt Kick,
• The Torpedo Punt Kick, and (I kid you not!!), 
• The PLACE KICK!!  LOL  Bruce begins the section on this kick by saying "This is the most accurate kick of all -- especially when there is a head or cross wind blowing.  It is favoured by some forwards when kicking for goal."  (The last VFL player to kick a goal using the Place Kick was Tony Ongarello in 1955!!)

And, no, no mention of the drop punt!

Ah, nostalgia!  (It aint what it used to be...!  LOL)

[Demons3031 375]

Yes good old Bruce Andrew-I think Bob Skilton was the other player used in those demonstration teaching videos (maybe Ted Whitten too?)-they were very educational- some of the still photos from them were posted up on the noticeboards at my school (CBC St KiIda) back in the early 60's and I used to study them..especially the stab kick. Gee it would be  good to see it back again-I'll never forget Billy Goggin taking the tap from Polly Farmer and hitting Doug Wade hard on the chest as he lead out from full forward-on multiple occasions in one final.

 

 

[Demons3031 375]

53 minutes ago, Vagg said:

Funny you should mention Bruce Andrew.  I am in possession of a small booklet called "Australian Football Handbook".  Its author is Bruce Andrew, Secretary of the Australian National Football Council.  Dunno how old it is (as it doesn't have a print date), but the types of kicks that Bruce lists might give some clue to its age.  The kicks listed are as follows:

• The Drop Kick,
• The Stab Kick,
• The Punt Kick,
• The Torpedo Punt Kick, and (I kid you not!!), 
• The PLACE KICK!!  LOL  Bruce begins the section on this kick by saying "This is the most accurate kick of all -- especially when there is a head or cross wind blowing.  It is favoured by some forwards when kicking for goal."  (The last VFL player to kick a goal using the Place Kick was Tony Ongarello in 1955!!)

And, no, no mention of the drop punt!

Ah, nostalgia!  (It aint what it used to be...!  LOL)

Asa matter of interest Vagg, I was doing some research last night on Demon players who moved on to the VFA club Prahran (who I also barracked for). Barrie Vagg was one. He was a favourite of mine. Number 32. Seemed to have taken on  a style that reminded me of Geoff Tunbridge (Number 23 in the late 50's I think). I recall one match in 1966-7 when Essendon came to the MCG and were favourites to beat us easily- and we  surprised them- including a 4 goal effort from one Barrie Vagg! (The Dons tried both Barry Davis and Alec Epis on him to no avail! Was wondering why you chose Barrie for your Demonland name..not related by any chance?

[Demons3031 375]

2 hours ago, Jontee said:

Might be getting the shows mixed up but Jack Edwards, Ted Whitten, Allan Aylett come to mind, Potter from the pies?

I'm with you Jontee- I thinklyou are right about those names- think they may have become part of the panel when the originals like Bert Deacon, Chicken etc moved on.

[Demons3031 375]

3 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

It is - to say the least - phantastique to have so many younger players (and types of players) to develop at Casey - the scramble is not yet on for positions in the big league, that will come later; at this point, I am just very happy that the ranks up and down are thickening with talent and room for growth and development. Augers well for this year and a handful of subsequent years to come.

Yes the ranks are thickening..reminds me a bit of those times in the past when the development started to pay dividends with players coming through the ranks..e.g Ray Jordon's just one example.

[Vagg 2,449]

2 hours ago, Demons3031 said:

Asa matter of interest Vagg, I was doing some research last night on Demon players who moved on to the VFA club Prahran (who I also barracked for). Barrie Vagg was one. He was a favourite of mine. Number 32. Seemed to have taken on  a style that reminded me of Geoff Tunbridge (Number 23 in the late 50's I think). I recall one match in 1966-7 when Essendon came to the MCG and were favourites to beat us easily- and we  surprised them- including a 4 goal effort from one Barrie Vagg! (The Dons tried both Barry Davis and Alec Epis on him to no avail! Was wondering why you chose Barrie for your Demonland name..not related by any chance?

No, not related.  Like with you, he was one of my favourite players back in the day.  Just something about him appealed to me.  So, was a natural name to pic for on here...

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

8 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Geoff Leak was an Essendon player. The Geelong Flyer was Bob Davis, i think. 

Yes, correct.   I knew G Leak, in his latter years.

Both, were high profile commentators around the period mentioned.

[Deemania since 56 6,740]

2 hours ago, Vagg said:

No, not related.  Like with you, he was one of my favourite players back in the day.  Just something about him appealed to me.  So, was a natural name to pic for on here...

Clean, talented footballer, no staging, no appeals to the rabbits. Some of his goals were remarkable - even by the standards of today.

[Demonstone 23,129]

59 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I knew G Leak, in his latter years.

Surprising then that you don't know that  his surname is Leek.  You know, like the vegetable not the wee.

[Demons3031 375]

Just did some checking Round 7 1966. Barrie Vagg 5 goals 5 behinds.. Demons  beat Bombers  by 5 goals. Norm Smith was still coaching at that stage. Reminded me a bit of Geoff Tunbridge though I was very young then  and can't picture him all that well in my memory-and also a bit like John Northey..elusive and could slot wonderful goals.

 

 

1 hour ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Clean, talented footballer, no staging, no appeals to the rabbits. Some of his goals were remarkable - even by the standards of today.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

50 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Surprising then that you don't know that  his surname is Leek.  You know, like the vegetable not the wee.

I knew him and his wife at the local shops,  seeing them often.   And saving a table for them many times.

I had to look him up,  to remember his surname.  So I think I got the spelling wrong from the internet, somewhere.

He was a really nice old man.   I moved away,  shortly before reading news of his passing.

[Demons3031 375]

5 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I knew him and his wife at the local shops,  seeing them often.   And saving a table for them many times.

I had to look him up,  to remember his surname.  So I think I got the spelling wrong from the internet, somewhere.

He was a really nice old man.   I moved away,  shortly before reading news of his passing.

A fine player for Essendon. I do remember his TV panel days..very softly spoken and came across as a real gentleman. 

 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,262]

Dunkley’s form was good enough as a 19 year old in the VFL to get drafted mid year and then good enough at Casey VFL to get promoted for AFL games (granted with a very deep injury list). All off the back of no AFL preseason yet people call him guaranteed not to make it and it assumes a yard stick of not getting senior games in 2020. He seemed to lack a yard but naturally knows how to find the ball, connect play and kick a goal. Assuming we are blessed with a more balanced list this year I suspect he will ply his trade in the mid field for Casey and be ready to seriously push in 2021 as you would expect a development curve to look. 

Rivers has tools we have in shot supply and with Hibberd and Jetta likely to show decline even if fit and Harmes somewhat of an unknown off half back opportunities could be there if he develops ahead of the curve in his first year. I would still anticipate though with a balanced list that a solid year at Casey with maybe a few games if opportunities arise would be the most to consider. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by big_red_fire_engine

[Redleg 41,786]

The beauty of our list now, is there are less obvious delistings at the end of the season. That means more players are possible AFL standard, thereby creating a deeper list with more options to cover injuries etc.

[old dee 23,929]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

The beauty of our list now, is there are less obvious delistings at the end of the season. That means more players are possible AFL standard, thereby creating a deeper list with more options to cover injuries etc.

You might be a little early with that Mr. Leg. I reckon there are 4-5 who are just making up the numbers.

I will hold off till June before I wholeheartedly  join you.

Edited December 31, 2019 by old dee

[rjay 25,211]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

The beauty of our list now, is there are less obvious delistings at the end of the season. That means more players are possible AFL standard, thereby creating a deeper list with more options to cover injuries etc.

We have this kind of discussion every year coming into January.

The reality is seen when we play games.

I think the beauty of the list now is we have a bit more young talent coming through but like all lists there are some obvious candidates that could probably be moved on at the end of season...

KK may not make it to the start of the season, Baker, the Wagners, AVB if he cops any more injury, Hannan the same..Brown probably has one season in him, particularly in Bradtke starts to show something.

...of course apart from the injuries the ball is in their court to show why they should be kept on. I'm not writing them off before the season starts but just giving examples of where delistings might be a little more obvious.

Edited December 31, 2019 by rjay

[DeeSpencer 26,098]

2 players without a lot in common so there's no point comparing them. Bit of an odd choice of players to pick out.

Haven't seen Rivers in match sim or do much testing running yet so it's hard to get a read on him but my feeling is he'll need time to build a fitness base being a big and powerful kid. According to AFL draft central he did a 6.57 2km time trial which needs some work. And he's an aggressive kick which is good long term but short term means he might take time to adapt to the speed of AFL footy and the tight kicking windows. Given the damage that turning the ball over at half back leads to I don't think they'll want him playing early. His best footy will come when he's using his power to win contests and that takes a while to do when you go from playing against 18 year olds to elite men.

I agree with others that it's hard to see standout attributes with Dunkley that make you want him in the side. But he was very comfortable at VFL level for a 19 year old, winning the ball, using it well and hitting the scoreboard. I've got my concerns that he ends up getting games as a rotation wing player and fails to impress, but if he can play a mix of half forward and mid he might contribute. Along with Sparrow and Jordon he's a young mid who should play well at Casey and push for games. It's hard to single any of those 3 out, but Dunkley does have the advantage of the most AFL experience so far.

[daisycutter 29,807]

On 12/30/2019 at 2:21 PM, Vagg said:

Funny you should mention Bruce Andrew.  I am in possession of a small booklet called "Australian Football Handbook".  Its author is Bruce Andrew, Secretary of the Australian National Football Council.  Dunno how old it is (as it doesn't have a print date), but the types of kicks that Bruce lists might give some clue to its age.  The kicks listed are as follows:

• The Drop Kick,
• The Stab Kick,
• The Punt Kick,
• The Torpedo Punt Kick, and (I kid you not!!), 
• The PLACE KICK!!  LOL  Bruce begins the section on this kick by saying "This is the most accurate kick of all -- especially when there is a head or cross wind blowing.  It is favoured by some forwards when kicking for goal."  (The last VFL player to kick a goal using the Place Kick was Tony Ongarello in 1955!!)

And, no, no mention of the drop punt!

Ah, nostalgia!  (It aint what it used to be...!  LOL)

I've got 2 books from the early 60's

1. A Manual of Australian Football. By Alan Scott, coach of Ballarat College rival to St. Patrick's College famous coach  Brother O'Malley. 1965 Lansdowne Press, 86 pages "This is the most comprehensive and down-to-earth book ever written on the art and science of playing Australian football" 

2. How to Play Aussie Rules. First printed 1960, Revised enlarged edition 1963, 120 pages. Lansdowne Press, edited by [censored] Wordly, foreword by Bruce Andrew. Different chapters written by many of the greats e.g. Bob Davis, Norm Smith, John Coleman, Ken Fraser, Alistair Lord, Ted Whitten, Verdun Howell, Ron Barassi, Bob Skilton, Thorold Merrett, Terry Callan, Graham Arthur, Kevin Murray, Allen aylett, John Nichols, Roy Wright, Jack dyer, Neil Roberts, Alan Nash, Hayden Bunton Jnr, Darryl Baldock, Hugh Buggy.

p.s. [censored] was D.i.c.k. ......go figure

Edited December 31, 2019 by daisycutter

[Demons3031 375]

6 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

2 players without a lot in common so there's no point comparing them. Bit of an odd choice of players to pick out.

Haven't seen Rivers in match sim or do much testing running yet so it's hard to get a read on him but my feeling is he'll need time to build a fitness base being a big and powerful kid. According to AFL draft central he did a 6.57 2km time trial which needs some work. And he's an aggressive kick which is good long term but short term means he might take time to adapt to the speed of AFL footy and the tight kicking windows. Given the damage that turning the ball over at half back leads to I don't think they'll want him playing early. His best footy will come when he's using his power to win contests and that takes a while to do when you go from playing against 18 year olds to elite men.

I agree with others that it's hard to see standout attributes with Dunkley that make you want him in the side. But he was very comfortable at VFL level for a 19 year old, winning the ball, using it well and hitting the scoreboard. I've got my concerns that he ends up getting games as a rotation wing player and fails to impress, but if he can play a mix of half forward and mid he might contribute. Along with Sparrow and Jordon he's a young mid who should play well at Casey and push for games. It's hard to single any of those 3 out, but Dunkley does have the advantage of the most AFL experience so far.

Hi Dee-yes I agree-not a lot in common. I was mainly after observations and views about what each might bring to the mix skill wise, position wise and  other attributes. I only got to see a bit of Dunkley last year and am enjoying the views on here on where he would fit in and be effective if he does get games. I feel there is something there and I hope he is played in positions where he can use his skills and build confidence.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

On 12/30/2019 at 9:29 PM, Demons3031 said:

A fine player for Essendon. I do remember his TV panel days..very softly spoken and came across as a real gentleman. 

 

Just as he was in person.  A gentle man.

[robbiefrom13 894]

On 12/30/2019 at 3:21 PM, Demons3031 said:

Asa matter of interest Vagg, I was doing some research last night on Demon players who moved on to the VFA club Prahran (who I also barracked for). Barrie Vagg was one. He was a favourite of mine. Number 32. Seemed to have taken on  a style that reminded me of Geoff Tunbridge (Number 23 in the late 50's I think). I recall one match in 1966-7 when Essendon came to the MCG and were favourites to beat us easily- and we  surprised them- including a 4 goal effort from one Barrie Vagg! (The Dons tried both Barry Davis and Alec Epis on him to no avail! Was wondering why you chose Barrie for your Demonland name..not related by any chance?

Those who didn't get to see footy back then will not understand what seeing Vagg in that game was like.  It was man-on-man football back then, and everybody played with just one opponent.  That day Melbourne kept Vagg way out on the flank in a vast amount of open space.  (Reminiscent of the famous Robbie Flower game against Richmond, I think.)  As the game got going, Vagg progressively got on top.  Then every Melbourne thrust seemed to be directed through his flank, and every time, he won the ball.   It was truly heroic stuff, one slightly built guy up against whoever Essendon's could put out there, and they couldn't stop him.  As I remember it, he had 4 goals and a number of behinds by half time, and Essendon had no other star defenders to try - it was a question of how many will he end up with.  One of the most thrilling afternoon's of total domination that I have ever seen - though the second half was an anti-climax.  I was too young to be able to say how he was quietened down.  With Vagg it wasn't speed, or power - it was just like watching some kind of mesmerism going on..   Bugs was one of my very favourite players from that era.

[Vagg 2,449]

1 hour ago, robbiefrom13 said:

Those who didn't get to see footy back then will not understand what seeing Vagg in that game was like.  It was man-on-man football back then, and everybody played with just one opponent.  That day Melbourne kept Vagg way out on the flank in a vast amount of open space.  (Reminiscent of the famous Robbie Flower game against Richmond, I think.)  As the game got going, Vagg progressively got on top.  Then every Melbourne thrust seemed to be directed through his flank, and every time, he won the ball.   It was truly heroic stuff, one slightly built guy up against whoever Essendon's could put out there, and they couldn't stop him.  As I remember it, he had 4 goals and a number of behinds by half time, and Essendon had no other star defenders to try - it was a question of how many will he end up with.  One of the most thrilling afternoon's of total domination that I have ever seen - though the second half was an anti-climax.  I was too young to be able to say how he was quietened down.  With Vagg it wasn't speed, or power - it was just like watching some kind of mesmerism going on..   Bugs was one of my very favourite players from that era.

Nice memories robbie!!  Always good to keep the memory of our former greats alive!

[Willmoy1947 4,172]

Long sleeves, long grass and in the day of no written information availability,  this blokes name passed gradually from the front seats up to the standing room in the outer................Barrie Vagg, Goulbourne Valley, i think.