Captaincy 2020

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

On 1/4/2020 at 3:42 PM, sue said:

 

What exactly did we do wrong in 1965 that is relevant to TV?   Did our players wear the wrong make-up?

We didn’t win in those years. 
it was rare to see the MFC on TV  during the 1960’s and 70’s. The Power base and generations of young supporters was lost to other clubs

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:28 PM, Fifty-5 said:

Norf won the flag in 96 when the www really took off, that's worked well for them hasn't it.

We are not North. That is the point

We should never be compared with them, yet we are, through shocking management over decades. 
 

So many supporters defend the position we have found ourselves in. I have never understood why...

[old55 23,576]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We are not North. That is the point

We should never be compared with them, yet we are, through shocking management over decades. 
 

So many supporters defend the position we have found ourselves in. I have never understood why...

I'm not "defend(ing) the position we have found ourselves in", I am saying that today's position has nothing to do with what happened in 1965.

You made the claim that we were irrelevant when a major new form of media exposure happened in 1965 and that's the root of our problems.

I responded that North were extremely relevant when another new form of media exposure happened in 1996-9 and it hasn't done them much good.

The issues both clubs face probably aren't related to this factor.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

2 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'm not "defend(ing) the position we have found ourselves in", I am saying that today's position has nothing to do with what happened in 1965.

You made the claim that we were irrelevant when a major new form of media exposure happened in 1965 and that's the root of our problems.

I responded that North were extremely relevant when another new form of media exposure happened in 1996-9 and it hasn't done them much good.

The issues both clubs face probably aren't related to this factor.

But North will always be a small club regardless of Media. 
 

We, The MFC were a Powerhouse who completely miss read the new Broadcasting of the 1960’s (as well as some other things)

We had the Power and gave it up. 
a Completely different scenario 

[Wells 11 5,401]

17 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

But North will always be a small club regardless of Media. 
 

We, The MFC were a Powerhouse who completely miss read the new Broadcasting of the 1960’s (as well as some other things)

We had the Power and gave it up. 
a Completely different scenario 

Im not sure " we gave it up". Im not 100% Ive got all the facts right but this is my view. 

  Its true we misread the professionalism that was entering the game and, I believe,  Smith was sacked for speaking that truth strongly to the power brokers at the club. A big and brutal mistake on all fronts. But its equally true that the recruiting zones we were given, when they were introduced at that time,  were not as productive as most of the others.  There was awareness of this at the time and there was an agreement that they be rotated every year but clubs voted to alter that and it was changed after 1 year. We got stranded. I feel like the AFL now would protect the powerful teams as money earners  but at that time we were royally shafted. The impact at that critical time of VFL ( now AFL) history has been compounding in terms of memberships and sponsorship etc etc . Then we lost our training ground on top of that and we were  too poor ( and Gutnick lacked the vision)  to grab the oppurtunity of olympic park which was offered to us before the pies in more recent history . So some of it was our own doing...but not all of it. Until we have a real home base Im not sure the death spiral is over. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

12 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Im not sure " we gave it up". Im not 100% Ive got all the facts right but this is my view. 

  Its true we misread the professionalism that was entering the game and, I believe,  Smith was sacked for speaking that truth strongly to the power brokers at the club. A big and brutal mistake on all fronts. But its equally true that the recruiting zones we were given, when they were introduced at that time,  were not as productive as most of the others.  There was awareness of this at the time and there was an agreement that they be rotated every year but clubs voted to alter that and it was changed after 1 year. We got stranded. I feel like the AFL now would protect the powerful teams as money earners  but at that time we were royally shafted. The impact at that critical time of VFL ( now AFL) history has been compounding in terms of memberships and sponsorship etc etc . Then we lost our training ground on top of that and we were  too poor ( and Gutnick lacked the vision)  to grab the oppurtunity of olympic park which was offered to us before the pies in more recent history . So some of it was our own doing...but not all of it. Until we have a real home base Im not sure the death spiral is over. 

I am sure we didn’t intend to give it up, but regardless. We did. 
Richmond moved into our turf and stayed, and got their act together straight away

We were still blindsided by the oncoming professionalism of the game. TV Bought in big money and we were not used. It all accumulates...

i don’t disagree with anything you say above by the way, but the roots to all of our modern problems began with our lack of TV Coverage. 
 The MFC was not part of people’s loungeroom when The VFL was growing a brand new audience 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Sir Why You Little

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

On 12/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, D4Life said:

 

# The other leadership we lack showed up against Port in the first game last year, with Max being attacked the whole game and getting no support!

Also happened in 2018 prelim against the Eagles!

 

I think this is where the likes of May, Lever, and Vandenburgh were really missed in 2019, not sure if Viney played that game, but at some point you need to stand together!  Hopefully we show this leadership across the ground in 2020!

In my view this is one of the reasons we lose to Collingwood so often, they look like they believe they can just push us around!!

   Agreed D4L. 

But Maxy has to lead as well,  by not tolerating being bullied.  He also has to show the spirit to fight back.  Not tolerating that treatment.

On 12/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, D4Life said:

So standing up and being counted is what I’m looking for from all our players.

Absolutely, and no acceptions, for Fritta,  or any (smaller) players.  They all have to adopt the attitudem of taking no bull -[censored] tactics.   No-one be the weak link.

On 12/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, D4Life said:

Richie Vandenburgh led the Hawks to change their mentality particularly against the Bombers, to go from victims to the aggressors!   Then onto Being a great team.

Agreed.   That club fought for its old mojo,  and got it back.

On 12/30/2019 at 8:35 AM, D4Life said:

Leadership starts at the top, but it’s up to all the players to step up.

 

Vigor  -  Victory

Go-Dees.

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:28 PM, Fifty-5 said:

Norf won the flag in 96 when the www really took off, that's worked well for them hasn't it.

Good point....North are a conundrum and a big warning lesson for MFC.

They have had reasonable success for a long time but have been unable to turn that success into a real boost in supporters. Probably only Hawthorn have been successful in coming from a low base to a power club and they have had incredible on field success. MFC on the other hand have gone from one of the two or three power clubs of the 50's and early 60's to the bottom four (North Bulldogs Saints and us).

Not sure we can turn the ship around but a few successful seasons would certainly help paper over the cracks for a lot of us ageing supporters.

 

[sue 9,106]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We didn’t win in those years. 
it was rare to see the MFC on TV  during the 1960’s and 70’s. The Power base and generations of young supporters was lost to other clubs

That is not us doing something wrong.  That is simply bad luck that in the normal cycle of rise and fall of a club (you can't stay on top forever) we happened to be on the fall during the time TV became important and thus lost new supporters.  Why we have been so bad for so long is another matter.  

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

40 minutes ago, sue said:

That is not us doing something wrong.  That is simply bad luck that in the normal cycle of rise and fall of a club (you can't stay on top forever) we happened to be on the fall during the time TV became important and thus lost new supporters.  Why we have been so bad for so long is another matter.  

We disagree on that one. Without exposure, supporters and sponsorship drop down and everything else follows

You put it down to bad luck....

[picket fence 17,169]

On 12/30/2019 at 9:49 PM, McQueen said:

You’re basing your opinion off a couple of skerricks of information. 
Viney would not have got this far in his leadership journey had it not been for the team and coaches promoting him with good reason. 

The Good reason was that politically to not reinstate when his father was clearly high up in admin would be seen as tatamount to  HIGH treason!

Viney is a limited footballer and although he gets it really lacks polish and match winning ability.

If Max is NOT stand alone Captain in 2020 we will still suffer miserably!!

Not sure MFC have the gonads to do this!

Dual Captains is so.... Wishy Washy! 

Garbage IMV!

Edited January 6, 2020 by picket fence

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

The Good reason was that politically to not reinstate when his father was clearly high up in admin would be seen as tatamount to  HIGH treason!

Viney is a limited footballer and although he gets it really lacks polish and match winning ability.

If Max is NOT stand alone Captain in 2020 we will still suffer miserably!!

Not sure MFC have the gonads to do this!

Dual Captains is so.... Wishy Washy! 

Garbage IMV!

Typical Picket Fence/Donald Trump wild speculation and fake news

[Foopy on the telly 529]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

The Good reason was that politically to not reinstate when his father was clearly high up in admin would be seen as tatamount to  HIGH treason!

Viney is a limited footballer and although he gets it really lacks polish and match winning ability.

If Max is NOT stand alone Captain in 2020 we will still suffer miserably!!

Not sure MFC have the gonads to do this!

Dual Captains is so.... Wishy Washy! 

Garbage IMV!

If the difference between us finishing top 4 and bottom 4 lies with whether or not Gawn is made captain then we have serious issues. 

(I also don’t like dual captains btw)

[chookrat 4,250]

Is this thread about the Captiancy for 2020, because I've read the last two pages and its absolute drivel about meaningless words that has nothing to do with anything relevant to the present or future.  Gawn for Captain and Viney as VC.

[ManDee 7,148]

A player told me Gawn will be captain

[Master Deebater 492]

Just now, ManDee said:

A player told me Gawn will be captain

But I wonder what the Melbourne players think?

[ManDee 7,148]

1 minute ago, MFC-11 said:

But I wonder what the Melbourne players think?

He thought he should be captain and will be captain 

[drysdale demon 4,836]

17 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Is this thread about the Captiancy for 2020, because I've read the last two pages and its absolute drivel about meaningless words that has nothing to do with anything relevant to the present or future.  Gawn for Captain and Viney as VC.

Just swyl beating his drum again.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

Just swyl beating his drum again.

At least i give an opinion. Have no idea what yours are, You just throw darts ? 

[drysdale demon 4,836]

14 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

Just swyl beating his drum again.

 

14 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

At least i give an opinion. Have no idea what yours are, You just throw darts ? 

That is my opinion of your posts

[sue 9,106]

17 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We disagree on that one. Without exposure, supporters and sponsorship drop down and everything else follows

You put it down to bad luck....

I agree with your remark about the effect of lack of exposure.  But you have not said why we had a lack of exposure.  I presume you'd agree that it was because we played poorly in 1965 and the early TV years.  I'm just saying after the 50's and early 60's it was likley we'd have a bad run as it is hard to stay on top forever. And that it was bad luck that an almost inevitable downturn coincided with the advent of TV (which you mentioned as important for exposure).  

I 'm not putting everything down to bad luck as you imply.  We played badly for whatever reasons you care to list. The bad luck was that coincided with TV and so we lost potential new supporters.  A run of bad years in earlier decades would have had lesser consequences.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

43 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

 

That is my opinion of your posts

Yes i am well aware

thanks so much

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

18 minutes ago, sue said:

I agree with your remark about the effect of lack of exposure.  But you have not said why we had a lack of exposure.  I presume you'd agree that it was because we played poorly in 1965 and the early TV years.  I'm just saying after the 50's and early 60's it was likley we'd have a bad run as it is hard to stay on top forever. And that it was bad luck that an almost inevitable downturn coincided with the advent of TV (which you mentioned as important for exposure).  

I 'm not putting everything down to bad luck as you imply.  We played badly for whatever reasons you care to list. The bad luck was that coincided with TV and so we lost potential new supporters.  A run of bad years in earlier decades would have had lesser consequences.

Sue our form from 1965 onwards was not bad luck. The Club totally miss read the environment it was in when TV first arrived, it also miss read the new Contracts being offered at that stage. 
it wasn’t enough to “just play at The MCG” as an offer to play for us. 
Richmond took our place over 2-3 years, and we have never been able to pull it back. Yes Richmond had a long drought and they had to rattle tins, but they NEVER lost their Supporter base, which is exactly what we missed out on in the late 1960’s-70’s

It comes down  to Leadership, which is why i mentioned it in the first place. We can still be a Powerhouse Club again, we have the name. But we must demand and expect shrewd and innovative Leadership all through the Club, onfield and off

But i cannot stress that original point enough, by missing the boat with TV in the mid to late 1960’s was a massive hit. 
 

The First Game I remember going to was the 1970 GF. 121,000 people were there (somehow!) and so much of that rivalry between Carlton and Collingwood was due to TV exposure on Saturday Nights. 
 

[sue 9,106]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sue our form from 1965 onwards was not bad luck. ...
 

 I did not say our form was a result of bad luck.    Doubtless there were all sorts of real reasons for the bad form etc.  I said that it was bad luck that our form was bad just as TV arrived with respect to attracting new supporters.    There is a difference. 

A spate of bad form and decisions in the 1930's would not have had the same effect.

I'll stop repeating myself.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

2 hours ago, sue said:

 I did not say our form was a result of bad luck.    Doubtless there were all sorts of real reasons for the bad form etc.  I said that it was bad luck that our form was bad just as TV arrived with respect to attracting new supporters.    There is a difference. 

A spate of bad form and decisions in the 1930's would not have had the same effect.

I'll stop repeating myself.

But it wasn’t bad luck that our bad form was in 1965 and onwards. It was shocking management. The signs were there already and the old stale board that pulled the strings did SFA about it. 
Weak Leadership.