Recreating the Tigers Premiership side with our list

[DeeSpencer 25,706]

Every year I like to do this as an exercise to see where our list shapes up and how we can catch up with the premiers. The usual caveats are:
1. You can't ever copy a side, you'll never be as good as they are, plus the game always evolves
2. We've got our own strengths to build around as well.
But you have to at least be taking the positives from their style when you can and adapting to trends before you're stuck miles behind.
So....

FB: Short  Grimes Broad
HB: Houli Astbury Vlastuin
C; Caddy  Cotchin  Ellis
HF: Lambert Riewoldt Bolton
FF: Rioli  Lynch Castagna
Foll: Soldo  Martin  Prestia
Int: Baker  Edwards  Nankervis Pickett

Backline:
Grimes: Best equivalent May. Other options: Forst. Role: Plays like an NFL free safety where he sits deepest so he can prevent out the back goals and can then man up dangerous forwards once inside 50. Pace and spoiling are key components, but reading the play is vital too, to know when to attack. Some intercept marking and reliable ball use important too. Grimes taking over from Rance and being just as good was huge for the Tigers this year. 

Broad: Frost. Options: Hibberd, J Smith. Hore. Role: Plays a mixture of zone and man. Has to have the height to man talls who come off Grimes and up the ground. Reading the play and winning or halving contests are vital here. Ball use not as important. The strong safety for NFL fans. 

Astbury: Oscar Mc. Options: Frost, Lever, Weideman, Petty. Astbury takes the marking CHF and plays them pretty tight. Whilst the other defenders zone he's often tasked with a man, but does have to know when to handover and when to hand back. Many fans will be underwhelmed but Oscar is probably the most suited to this role. It's one I'd like to see Weideman trialled in. 

Vlastuin: Lever. Options: Hibberd, Hore, Harmes, Brayshaw. The middle linebacker of the backline, he's in absolutely everything. Any attempt to get through Richmond's backline involves getting through Vlastuin. He reads the play exceptionally, is a super strong interceptor (particularly for his size) and defender in the air, uses the ball well without being a great kick. 

Short: Jetta. Options: Hibberd, Hunt, J Wagner. Played deeper this year with Grimes moving in to Rance's role, so had more lock down jobs but is also a really good kick and has the agility to get out of trouble.

Houli: Salem. Options: J Wagner, Jones, Hibberd. The quarterback, mainly zones off high half forwards and gets a stack of the ball and uses it perfectly.

Baker: Harmes Options: Hunt, Spargo, Sparrow, Hibberd, Jordon. Very much the 7th defender Baker was really used in rotations to provide the relentless run and cover needed to fill the zones and provide support running that powers the Tigers rebounding game. Neat kick, good handballer, zippy, hard at it and good enough defensively (air and ground depsite a few errors in the prelim). 

Forwardline:
Riewoldt: Weideman. Options: Petty, Melksham. Jack does a bit of everything these days. Leads up, chops and changes deep, tackles, knocks the ball on. Probably plays more like the 2nd banana but can also have his moments. 

Lynch: Tom McDonald. Options: Petty, Preuss. The main targets inside 50 who can do things on the ground but his best work is launching at the footy with strong leads and strong hands. Reliable set shot as well.

Castagna: Fritsch. Options: Melksham, Hannan, J Smith. A speedy 3rd marking tall. Misses a lot of goals but makes up for them with defensive pressure. His ability to compete in the air for his size really adds value to the team.

Rioli: Lockhart. Options: Hannan, Spargo, Chandler, Bedford, C Wagner. Rioli does some good things with the ball but I think it's his pressure and then link up work that gives most of his value. Low possessions, high impact.

Bolton: Chandler. Options: Hannan, C Wagner, (maybe J Elliott). Another pressure small, does a bit more in the air and can provide some midfield time

Lambert: ANB. Options: Jones, Melksham, C Wagner, Lockhart, Harmes. Contest to contest run, run and more run, with some goal kicking and ball use, plus midfield rotations if need be. 

Midfield:
Soldo. Gawn. Soldo really took off as a tap run with some sneaky around the ground moves. Good player. Split time with Nank but I'd have him as the number 1.

Cotchin. Viney. Options: Brayshaw, Harmes. Very much still the heart and soul despite less role with the ball. He's ability to pressure and set the physical tone stands out.

Prestia: Oliver. Options: Brayshaw, Viney. The most prolific Tiger mid this year because his movement around stoppages is superb and he wins the ball when it's there. Took his kicking to new levels over the last two years, far more balanced and in control.

Edwards: Brayshaw. Options: Salem, Lockhart. The glue in the Richmond side with sneaky fast handballs which Gus might be able to recreate. Defensively very sound for a slight body. Only Salem could get close to his overall ball use.

Martin: Petracca. Options: Oliver, Melksham. Just a freak, knows when to go in to the middle, when to bob up around half forward and when to get the one on one deep and use it to full advantage.

Caddy: Tomlinson. Options: Vanders, Melksham, Harmes, Jordon. The bigger body winger who is defensively sound at the clearances and then provides marking help forward or back. Endurance and positioning are vital.

Ellis: ?Langdon. Options: Stretch, JKH, Baker. The gut running wingman who works super hard to get back and then to provide an option. Ball use and overhead ability is a bonus but just hard running to the right spots is so much of the job.

Pickett: Oskar Baker. Options: Harmes, Vanders, C Wagner, Sparrow. A wing/midfield/forward player but I sense the Tigers treat this spot based on who gets picked. The plan was for Graham as a tagger/defensive mid but Pickett came in and got to play with freedom and use his pace. It's why I went with Baker as I think he's a guy we just have to get games in to and we can use him as a burst player in low minutes. Has to get fitter and improve his tackling/defensive stoppage work but the upside is high.

Nankervis: Melksham. Options: Preuss, Dunkley, Sparrow, C Wagner. Very much the 22nd man for the Tigers I'd expect we'd try to get a player who can play forward/mid to add to versatility given Gawn can ruck 80% and we can use Tomlinson or key forwards to cover so the best replacement is someone who offers a bit up forward but can also mix it in the midfield.

Weaknesses/Differences
Backline: If Frost goes then we're short that 2nd and 3rd tall option who can swap on to the key forwards, he's not really a zone player anyway. Meanwhile Lever is probably too much of a zone player to ideally suit the Astbury or Broad roles, hence I had him in the Vlastuin role. Jetta and Hibberd are both better in the air than Tigers smalls but they don't have the same rebound. And I'm not sure there's a young player on the list capable of the Baker role. Harmes back is an option I like but it's putting an important midfielder in to a spot that could be filled with some smart recruiting or development.

Midfield: Do we get Langdon, is Tomlinson quick enough to tackle and chase smalls effectively? Can our inside bulls sharpen up their defensive work and ball use - can they sharpen up at all! Is Baker a midfield pace option, are the forwards? Can we be skilled and pressure well enough that we can spare Salem and Harmes to play back or wing. If not then what do we do with Brayshaw - can he play half back?

Forwards: Obviously the big key forwards are lacking but have proven capable in finals in 2018. Can ANB get his ball use and hardness over the pill to the level required to be the next Lambert he has the tank. Who else is forward is capable of some midfield rotations so that Petracca can roll forward.

 

[Nelo 813]

When you put it like that we really are a terrible side. 

[Ugottobekidding 1,187]

Was waiting for a thread like this. Dissapointed it didnt come sooner.?

[DeeZone 9,841]

22 minutes ago, Nelo said:

When you put it like that we really are a terrible side. 

Not really we have a lot of unknown's on the list, potential must become kinetic, we need to find additional players that have heart and desire...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spirit of norm smith 16,457]

Horrific. No wonder they are #1 and we are 17th. 

Comparisons also odd. Liam Baker. James Harmes. Wtf. 

Gawn and perhaps Oliver are clearly our only true winners on the comparison.  

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Lotsa work in that post

Respect

We are shocking

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

Backline (if they can stay on the park) ✔️

Need 2 key Forwards.

Need to play 2 ruckmen.

Need agile mid/small forwards

Outside mids

 

 

[praha 11,240]

A better comparison imo would be Richmond's 2017 side with our 2019 side. Comparing us to an established side whose best players are all late 20s after they've just won their 2nd flag in 3 years and probably should have won 3 in a row, is a bit silly and unfair. 

Ultimately we can look at aiming at Richmond's 2017 season and side. Way too high a standard comparing us to an established finals side now.

also I think a fairer comparison might be Geelong's 2017 team. imo we're quite close to them in terms of how the side is structured.

Edited October 1, 2019 by praha

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Hall mark of the Tigers side is the forward half speed and pressure, and we don't really have much of that. we've got 3 pretty handy medium forwards in Fritsch, Track and Melk.. Tommy who's good but needs support, Weideman who needs to step up and probably one position open for a small forward if we can find one.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

It's the system Richmond use not the players

Ours worked in 2018 and broke in 2019

Essendon couldn't get rid of Houli fast enough

Caddy was dumped by Geelong

Ellis and Lambert were considered one dimensional and slow (in the mind

Get them all playing roles in a system thats consistent and they blossom

You can add Astbury and Vlaustin, nobody ever mentions them as great defenders, they play a consistent role

Edited October 1, 2019 by Satyriconhome

[Monocology 1,109]

Thread surely wins 'lander black-comedy post 2019 - by 22 lengths!

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

This is obviously supposed to be “Light Relief”

[nosoupforme 3,085]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:57 PM, DeeZone said:

Not really we have a lot of unknown's on the list, potential must become kinetic, we need to find additional players that have heart and desire...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Langdon and Tomlinson that must be a start. both got grunt.

[DeeSpencer 25,706]

On 9/30/2019 at 9:46 PM, spirit of norm smith said:

Horrific. No wonder they are #1 and we are 17th. 

Comparisons also odd. Liam Baker. James Harmes. Wtf. 

Gawn and perhaps Oliver are clearly our only true winners on the comparison.  

The comparisons are to find the type of players for the roles if we were to copy Richmond straight up - which I don't recommend but I think we should at least look at how they are playing as they are.

We used Spargo at half back towards the end of the year - mainly because we didn't have a lot of options but also to give us an agile zippy half back who can really run. I'm not proposing we use Spargo in that role full time, he isn't big or strong enough and his kicking isn't a positive either. But we have to at least consider options. If Hibberd is just too slow and unfit to do that job anymore or is needed deeper in the backline then we have to think about who can play that kind of role.

On 10/1/2019 at 11:51 AM, Patches O’houlihan said:

Hall mark of the Tigers side is the forward half speed and pressure, and we don't really have much of that. we've got 3 pretty handy medium forwards in Fritsch, Track and Melk.. Tommy who's good but needs support, Weideman who needs to step up and probably one position open for a small forward if we can find one.

But can we play 3 mediums in the same forward line with 2 talls who aren't good defensively? Maybe we take Melksham and move him to a wing like the Tigers did with Caddy mid year? Or do we use the 3 medium guys as an advantage and find defensive pressure and speed elswhere?

This is the type of year not only to bring in new players but to examine how are best players fit together. If we can make a few structural moves now to make the team better rather than waiting until mid year when the team balance is off then that can give us a big advantage in the early rounds.