On 01/10/2019 at 12:03, A F said:

No. Their players work hard to position, making the kicking easier.

There's that too but our disposal skills are suburban level.  Deplorable really.

But you're not wrong.  We're a lazy football team.  We don't work hard enough to win games of football

I'm wondering what RDB would make of it all if he was in his prime and coaching us.  My guess is he'd be seething with anger.  Northey too. 

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by Macca

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:08, Macca said:

We are still a rubbish outfit with him gone.  Unless there is an influx of real talent and lots of it.

How many highly skilled players do we actually have?  Most of them turn the ball over at some stage during the games and a number of them do it multiple times.  So it isn't just Frost.  The problem will remain once he's gone.

There's your context rjay.  I reckon he's been badly handled and poorly coached.  But again,  that appraisal could apply to a number of our other players.

And the players don't help their own cause by not helping themselves.  Self improvement doesn't really exist at the Demons.

Not just Frost 'Macca'...there is a problem in range of areas at the club.

The list is a big one, we both agree on that.

...but I was recently told by a reliable source that Macca...of the coaching variety said the players weren't carrying out instructions on game day.

Make of that what you will, but it's certainly a problem.

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:20, rjay said:

Not just Frost 'Macca'...there is a problem in range of areas at the club.

The list is a big one, we both agree on that.

...but I was recently told by a reliable source that Macca...of the coaching variety said the players weren't carrying out instructions on game day.

Make of that what you will, but it's certainly a problem.

And then there are the Lewis comments at the B & F about the attitudes in the pre-season.  We got ahead of ourselves.  I'm convinced now.  And that is a recipe for disaster looking ahead.

It was evident from round 1 or even earlier in the practice games.  The lack of fight was what stood out to me. 

But if what you say is true then the disconnect from the players to the Coaching dept/MC is a deep concern.  Not so easy to correct either.  In the aftermath Goodwin stays but a number of assistants don't.

But haven't we seen all this before?  History repeats by the looks of it.  We saw players openly arguing with each other on the field and we lost 17 games.  Says it all really.

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:16, Macca said:

There's that too but our disposal skills are suburban level.  Deplorable really.

But you're not wrong.  We're a lazy football team.  We don't work hard enough to win games of football

I'm wondering what RDB would make of it all if he was in his prime and coaching us.  My guess is he'd be seething with anger.  Northey too. 

I've said this many times before, but your skills look a lot better when you're basically kicking to an uncontested player in space. Hard running enables this.

Let's see how Burgess goes this off season.

Ultimately, if our team isn't fit enough to tackle 2020, we're going nowhere regardless of who takes to the field for us.

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by A F

Can we give them Oscar McDonald instead of Frost? 

This is disappointing.

  On 01/10/2019 at 09:03, Ethan Tremblay said:

First round pick according to some on here.

He's going to become a mixture of Bobby Skilton and David Densch under Clarkos tutelage according to some on Demonland 

  On 01/10/2019 at 09:54, Mondê said:

Agree to disagree. Was thrown forward out of necessity, played his entire career before that as a KPD. He performed well up there but can't see it being permanent. Time will tell

Petty won't be played forward if TMac and Weed are fit & available. I was thrilled to see him play forward where you have to lead your defender to the ball and had been hoping he'd play forward at Casey to assist his development. The AFL games up forward have been great experience for him. But his value is as a defender

He's a better mark and kick than Frosty and will slot in beautifully alongside Lever & May. I see him developing into a Jared Rivers type

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:51, Pennant St Dee said:

He's going to become a mixture of Bobby Skilton and David Densch under Clarkos tutelage according to some on Demonland 

"Watch him become a gun!"

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:51, Pennant St Dee said:

He's going to become a mixture of Bobby Skilton and David Densch under Clarkos tutelage according to some on Demonland 

And those same posters would be smashing him if we were trying to recruit him from Hawthorn (see Tomlinson).

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:46, A F said:

I've said this many times before, but your skills look a lot better when you're basically kicking to an uncontested player in space. Hard running enables this.

Let's see how Burgess goes this off season.

Ultimately, if our team isn't fit enough to tackle 2020, we're going nowhere with whoever takes to the field for us.

You make good points AF and I don't disagree with what you've got to say but it's both really.

Actual disposal skills and the inability to make position.  And an example of our poor disposal skills is our kicking for goal.  Yip-City.

Ball drop,  approach,  execution,  follow through and even how we line up is error-ridden.   And not just when we're lining up for goal.  The biomechanics aren't there.

But the inability to make position may be of greater concern if it highlights how lazy we are.  Coupled with rjay's info that the players aren't carrying out basic instructions.  Not good.

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by Macca

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:56, Macca said:

Ball drop,  approach,  execution,  follow through and even how we line up is error-ridden.   And not just when we're lining up for goal.  The biomechanics aren't there.

But the inability to make position may be of greater concern if it highlights how lazy we are.  Coupled with rjay's info that the players aren't carrying out basic instructions.  Not good.

I agree. We need to improve our goal kicking, but this is so often the realm of confidence and routine. Get it right in the pre season and that can turn.

As for your second point, there's no doubt it's not just on the coaches this [censored] season. The players have to take some responsibility. 

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:59, A F said:

I agree. We need to improve our goal kicking, but this is so often the realm of confidence and routine. Get it right in the pre season and that can turn.

As for your second point, there's no doubt it's not just on the coaches this [censored] season. The players have to take some responsibility. 

Yes they do. 

Same as the players had to take responsibility during the Bailey & Neeld years.  

I always remember those comments from Brad Green about the players needing to buy-in to the new regime under Neeld.  At the time I thought it should have just been an automatic thing to do rather than making an effort to do so.

But I'm not sure they did anyway and we look like we've regressed back to kind.  We can't go back to just sacking the coach again.

A lot of work ahead but it's better to evaluate the list after the trade period and after the draft.  And then we reboot and start all over again. 

We supporters know what is ahead of the team but does the team know?

  On 01/10/2019 at 13:12, Macca said:

Yes they do. 

Same as the players had to take responsibility during the Bailey & Neeld years.  

I always remember those comments from Brad Green about the players needing to buy-in to the new regime under Neeld.  At the time I thought it should have just been an automatic thing to do rather than making an effort to do so.

But I'm not sure they did anyway and we look like we've regressed back to kind.  We can't go back to just sacking the coach again.

A lot of work ahead but it's better to evaluate the list after the trade period and after the draft.  And then we reboot and start all over again. 

We supporters know what is ahead of the team but does the team know?

I think if we can get a few early wins next year we'll get buy in. There were a few whispers of discontent during last season too, but they dissipated as the season progressed and we went deep in September.

That to me suggests our culture still has a bit of a way to go. The fact that it can be undone so easily.

I really hope players like Gawn have a pull with the players, because when he spoke of getting down to work at the BnF last year, it must have fallen on deaf ears.

To paraphrase Keating, let's hope 2019 was the year we had to have and our players learn that they can't take anything for granted, and the show won't keep rolling on without continued hard work.

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:51, Pennant St Dee said:

He's going to become a mixture of Bobby Skilton and David Densch under Clarkos tutelage according to some on Demonland 

Maybe not, but you know who the Pies best defender is, yes that bloke of ours, who we also didn't try to keep. He is still going strong, while who we got in exchange is long gone.

  On 01/10/2019 at 13:45, Redleg said:

Maybe not, but you know who the Pies best defender is, yes that bloke of ours, who we also didn't try to keep. He is still going strong, while who we got in exchange is long gone.

We got Mitch Hannan in exchange for Dunn, so I'd say the trade is about even.

I"m thinking the club thinks Harry Petty is ready to step up and is a bit more reliable. this does however leave me with serious concerns for the speed of our backline. Frost seemed to be important in that way, keeping some of the small defenders honest on ground level.

He'll be the greatest defender that ever lived once he starts playing at the Hawks.

Sad to see him go, obviously couldn't come to a suitable agreement.

Hopefully we get Hawks 2nd rounder in return case closed.

  On 01/10/2019 at 13:52, Patches O’houlihan said:

I"m thinking the club thinks Harry Petty is ready to step up and is a bit more reliable. this does however leave me with serious concerns for the speed of our backline. Frost seemed to be important in that way, keeping some of the small defenders honest on ground level.

I wonder if Hunt will be moved back to half back?

  On 01/10/2019 at 13:52, Patches O’houlihan said:

I"m thinking the club thinks Harry Petty is ready to step up and is a bit more reliable. this does however leave me with serious concerns for the speed of our backline. Frost seemed to be important in that way, keeping some of the small defenders honest on ground level.

Agreed and worried about when the ball hits the ground in our defensive 50, Frosty is very good below his knees.

Disappointing that he's leaving. We have stuffed up our backline again. Looks like Petty will have to go back when he was looking so good as a forward. Pretty disappointing list management if you ask me Frost should be a demon.

  On 01/10/2019 at 13:45, Redleg said:

Maybe not, but you know who the Pies best defender is, yes that bloke of ours, who we also didn't try to keep. He is still going strong, while who we got in exchange is long gone.

Howe didn't want to stay and certainly never turned the ball over as much as Frost.

Try not comparing Apples with oranges 

  On 01/10/2019 at 12:05, binman said:

What us the stuff about needing frost's speed? 

Again, we dont need quick key defenders. We need quick, skilled mids and forwards.

Everyone is raving about Richmond. Riddle me this - who is their super fast key defender? Or for that matter any other super fast key defender from ine if tbe four preliminary final team?

Whilst I agree with your point Grimes is lightening quick and Broad has very good pace too. And of course Rance if fit.

Pies - Moore and Howe. GWS - Corr and Haynes. Brisbane - Gardiner has the speed on the lead.

Anyway, May is a super quick full back who can play small or tall, finding a speedy back pocket will be important if Jetta doesn't have much left will matter too. But not as much as the mids, forwards and even another back flanker.

  On 01/10/2019 at 09:38, praha said:

In my 30 years supporting this club we appear to struggle more than any other club in retaining players we actually *need*. We fill areas that have holes but then lose assets in other areas. I know that the balancing act isn't easy but we are losing too much depth, too often.

If we have a fit list Frost doesn't get a game.

  On 01/10/2019 at 10:11, Demonsone said:

Would like to hear from Mahoney why we are giving up our quickest defender???

Because he's not that good, doesnt hold his position and is the biggest culprit for turning the ball over and being scored against.

  On 01/10/2019 at 10:25, Sorry kids said:

No one is saying he is one of the best, but has been best 22 all year and played his heart out through a dismal season. Held his head up when others dropped their bundle. That counts for plenty. 

He wasn't "best 22" he got games due to our diabolical injury list