As if Roos would come to Melbourne. No doubt he’d turn our basket club of a club completely around within a few years and make us competitive, only for him to leave and for whoever takes over to undo all his good work and back to a basket case within a year. Who would do that to themselves? 

About as much chance of getting Roos back as resurrecting Norm Smith for the gig.

As David Morrison put it - "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept".  Our club walked straight past the preliminary final last year.  There was no review of the game which basically was saying to the team "It's ok boys, we overachieved but we'll be back next year."

If that is the standard the coaching group are prepared to accept, then a losers culture is still permeating the club.  I can't help but think of the way Sheedy handled Essendon's 1983 GF thrashing.  We need to set and hold a professional standard and we need to coach a ruthless mentality.  Ian Chappell once said of Rod Marsh - I've known plenty of players who'd die for the baggy green, but only one who'd kill for it.  Who would kill for the Demons? This season Goodwin has clearly been out of his depth.  Roos isn't the answer but a decent mentor is required.  Macca clearly wasn't the man.  I'm not sure who is but I doubt it's Bolton or Richardson.

Roos? Move on chaps.

And to the poster who was banging on about missing Kelly, the Club was going to take Billings with the draft pick that was traded.

 

13 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

As David Morrison put it - "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept".  Our club walked straight past the preliminary final last year.  There was no review of the game which basically was saying to the team "It's ok boys, we overachieved but we'll be back next year."

If that is the standard the coaching group are prepared to accept, then a losers culture is still permeating the club.  I can't help but think of the way Sheedy handled Essendon's 1983 GF thrashing.  We need to set and hold a professional standard and we need to coach a ruthless mentality.  Ian Chappell once said of Rod Marsh - I've known plenty of players who'd die for the baggy green, but only one who'd kill for it.  Who would kill for the Demons? This season Goodwin has clearly been out of his depth.  Roos isn't the answer but a decent mentor is required.  Macca clearly wasn't the man.  I'm not sure who is but I doubt it's Bolton or Richardson.

good post

I cant see Richardson being a mentor..If he were to sit above Goody he may as well be doing his job.  Richo might well prove a clever get as an assistant...if that were to transpire

Shame we didn’t grab Ratten last Summer. 

He was the best assistant out there by a mile

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Shame we didn’t grab Ratten last Summer. 

He was the best assistant out there by a mile

The best assistant coach - for us - is Adam Yze. This club needs to find it’s soul. It needs to surround itself with as many skilled people as possible, who understand it’s culture, character and it’s history and yearn to see it redeemed.

Just now, Mel Bourne said:

The best assistant coach - for us - is Adam Yze. This club needs to find it’s soul. It needs to surround itself with as many skilled people as possible, who understand it’s culture, character and it’s history and yearn to see it redeemed.

Disagree. This Club needs more outside influences to realign itself. We are too insular with people who didn’t get to the top. 

Has Adem ever spoken about returning, i thought he left on bad terms. I am not certain of that. 

5 hours ago, Demonland said:

Saw Roosy at the footy yesterday wearing a Dees scarf.

Did he eat his scarf in frustration?

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Disagree. This Club needs more outside influences to realign itself. We are too insular with people who didn’t get to the top. 

Has Adem ever spoken about returning, i thought he left on bad terms. I am not certain of that. 

Yze has been at Hawthorn since the 2014 season. 6 yrs under the best coach of the last 50 years.

He'd be a great get.

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Disagree. This Club needs more outside influences to realign itself. We are too insular with people who didn’t get to the top. 

Has Adem ever spoken about returning, i thought he left on bad terms. I am not certain of that. 

Help me out here...

Roos - Sydney/Fitzroy

Pert - Fitzroy/Collingwood

Goodwin - Adelaide/Essendon

McCartney - Western Bulldogs

I’m not sure the case for outside influences is particularly strong. 

9 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Help me out here...

Roos - Sydney/Fitzroy

Pert - Fitzroy/Collingwood

Goodwin - Adelaide/Essendon

McCartney - Western Bulldogs

I’m not sure the case for outside influences is particularly strong. 

I am talking Assistant Coaches

Ratts was by far the best out there, until the Aints Pounced. They won’t let him go

He had our midfield in 2004-5 and did a great job  

I don’t think Adem plans on a move at this stage...

 

August, 2014. Paul Roos media conference after Melbourne lost to Brisbane. They led by 14 points early in the final term, before conceding the last six goals for a 23 point loss.

"There's clearly some who might not be able to get over what's happened in the past... You've got to go back to the mindset and we're waiting to be beaten, generally what happens is that you get beaten."

'Roos agreed the task of instilling mental belief into his players' minds was much harder than he envisaged. "The winning component, definitely. There's a willingness to improve and there's a willingness to comply, but I think that lack of belief that we can win, or we're capable of winning, is far, far greater than what I'd imagined it could possibly be." '

"I haven't seen anything like that before in my time. The mistakes were extraordinary. Extraordinary."

"Inside 50s today were clearly a result of deplorable skills."

Five years on and the team seems to be facing the same problems. How the hell has this happened? Even Roos found the problem bigger than he could ever imagine. The players were mentally scarred, he believed, by the years of losing and the losing culture. 

Where does the club go from here? It is going to be a Herculean effort by everyone in MFC. I hope someone has the answers and the will to make it happen.

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by Dame Gaga
.

7 hours ago, rufus said:

No we don't turn over the list at all. We have talent. We've always had talent.

Don't know how you do it, but somehow we need to change the expectations applied to our players. For example, no excuses for last years prelim debacle. We looked petrified and the players should have been called out for it.

There's no excuse, injury/pre season or otherwise for winning less games than Haw/Ess/car/stk/syd for example.

The day before playing the Demons a few weeks ago, I asked an assistant at another club which Melb players they have specific plans for. He said 'honestly, we don't plan much for their individuals. We've approached them the same for many years...physical pressure and run both ways for long enough and they give up.' Had to laugh.

Nail on the head. In laymans terms, just keep pressuring them.

Offer him $2 million a year 

31 minutes ago, Dame Gaga said:

August, 2014. Paul Roos media conference after Melbourne lost to Brisbane. They led by 14 points early in the final term, before conceding the last six goals for a 23 point loss.

"There's clearly some who might not be able to get over what's happened in the past... You've got to go back to the mindset and we're waiting to be beaten, generally what happens is that you get beaten."

'Roos agreed the task of instilling mental belief into his players' minds was much harder than he envisaged. "The winning component, definitely. There's a willingness to improve and there's a willingness to comply, but I think that lack of belief that we can win, or we're capable of winning, is far, far greater than what I'd imagined it could possibly be." '

"I haven't seen anything like that before in my time. The mistakes were extraordinary. Extraordinary."

"Inside 50s today were clearly a result of deplorable skills."

Five years on and the team seems to be facing the same problems. How the hell has this happened? Even Roos found the problem bigger than he could ever imagine. The players were mentally scarred, he believed, by the years of losing and the losing culture. 

Where does the club go from here? It is going to be a Herculean effort by everyone in MFC. I hope someone has the answers and the will to make it happen.

It was always going to take more than 3 years to fix this problem. 

I am certain it can be fixed. But we need a very experienced group of people to do it...

1 hour ago, Dame Gaga said:

August, 2014. Paul Roos media conference after Melbourne lost to Brisbane. They led by 14 points early in the final term, before conceding the last six goals for a 23 point loss.

"There's clearly some who might not be able to get over what's happened in the past... You've got to go back to the mindset and we're waiting to be beaten, generally what happens is that you get beaten."

'Roos agreed the task of instilling mental belief into his players' minds was much harder than he envisaged. "The winning component, definitely. There's a willingness to improve and there's a willingness to comply, but I think that lack of belief that we can win, or we're capable of winning, is far, far greater than what I'd imagined it could possibly be." '

"I haven't seen anything like that before in my time. The mistakes were extraordinary. Extraordinary."

"Inside 50s today were clearly a result of deplorable skills."

Five years on and the team seems to be facing the same problems. How the hell has this happened? Even Roos found the problem bigger than he could ever imagine. The players were mentally scarred, he believed, by the years of losing and the losing culture. 

Where does the club go from here? It is going to be a Herculean effort by everyone in MFC. I hope someone has the answers and the will to make it happen.

As I have said loved roos as coach of the dees. Did a terrific job. Easy to forget how bleak things were right before he signed on.

But my knock on him is tbat he recognised the skill issue but chose to go after bulls at the expense of skill. Our current lack of elite ball users and our ridiculous turnover numbers is in part down to him.

6 hours ago, binman said:

As I have said loved roos as coach of the dees. Did a terrific job. Easy to forget how bleak things were right before he signed on.

But my knock on him is tbat he recognised the skill issue but chose to go after bulls at the expense of skill. Our current lack of elite ball users and our ridiculous turnover numbers is in part down to him.

And Goodwin hasn't? 

As to Roos.  As you say thinks were bleak.  We were a 'bruise free' team'!  A team lacking AFL level fitness, that had no idea how to run both ways.  Firstly, he needed to rebuild the midfield with strong bodied players.  And we needed speed.  At first we got other club 'cast offs', who we delisted when talented players could be drafted.  He left us with a well balanced team of strength, speed and skill albeit a few gaps to fill in the latter two areas.  Only so much can be done in 2/3 years when starting at rock bottom.

It is the skill loss or under-use since Roos left that I see is the issue.   Skill loss:  Watts, Hogan (yes I know there were good reasons but their skills weren't replaced), Vince.  Skill underused:  Salem, Garlett and more recently Fritsch.  A significant but less obvious lost/underused skill is footy IQ and those players had/have it. 

Two somewhat rhetorical questions.  1) 28 players on our list recruited since Roos left.  Where is the skill among them?  2) What skill development has happened since  he left?  He recruited the talent.  It was up to Goodwin and co to gradually develop it.

The Game Plan drives List Management.  Those 28 players have been recruited for Goodwin's ballistic, contested game plan.  Changing the game plan, changes recruiting which changes the List.  Ipso facto, get a game plan that needs skill and we will have players with skill.

I find it amazing that people blame Roos for what has happened or been neglected since he went.

Edited August 11, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

And Goodwin hasn't? 

As to Roos.  As you say thinks were bleak.  We were a 'bruise free' team'!  A team lacking AFL level fitness, that had no idea how to run both ways.  Firstly, he needed to rebuild the midfield with strong bodied players.  And we needed speed.  At first we got other club 'cast offs', who we delisted when talented players could be drafted.  He left us with a well balanced team of strength, speed and skill albeit a few gaps to fill in the latter two areas.  Only so much can be done in 2/3 years when starting at rock bottom.

It is the skill loss or under-use since Roos left that I see is the issue.   Skill loss:  Watts, Hogan (yes I know there were good reasons but their skills weren't replaced), Vince.  Skill underused:  Salem, Garlett and more recently Fritsch.  A significant but less obvious lost/underused skill is footy IQ and those players had/have it. 

Two somewhat rhetorical questions.  1) 28 players on our list recruited since Roos left.  Where is the skill among them?  2) What skill development has happened since  he left?  He recruited the talent.  It was up to Goodwin and co to gradually develop it.

The Game Plan drives List Management.  Those 28 players have been recruited for Goodwin's ballistic, contested game plan.  Changing the game plan, changes recruiting which changes the List.  Ipso facto, get a game plan that needs skill and we will have players with skill.

I find it amazing that people blame Roos for what has happened or been neglected since he went.

LH please don't misrepresent my views.

I have consistently criticised Goodwin  for focusing on getting contested ball winners over skill . This year and in previous years, including being one of relatively few posters who argued against trading watts (and Hogan for that matter).

But that does not change my stance that roos should take some of the blame for our lack of skilled players.

Edited August 12, 20195 yr by binman