The calumny of the AFL's priority pick policy

[Macca 17,120]

As for Lucas Cook

Not one bad word was said about in this place. I have read the threads on him. And he was always going to be drafted jn the first round.

An all Australian under 18 CHF. Some thought we were getting the next Nick Reiwoldt

Didn't play a game.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Macca

[Macca 17,120]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I'd say that matters the least

In the context I meant it as,  it is true

If 95%+ of the supporter group agree and gp along with a club decision,  they are stuck with that decision

Edited October 1, 2019 by Macca

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

As for Lucas Cook

Not one bad word was said about in this place. I have read the threads on him. And he was always going to be drafted jn the first round.

An all Australian under 18 CHF. Some thought we were getting the next Nick Reiwoldt

Didn't play a game.

 

All I can remember from this draft is the phantom drafts had us taking Heppell and Lynch. 

The thing is, if you picked McDonald with pick 12 and cook with 53 nothing would be said.

To end up with McDonald and Howe with the picks we had was actually a pretty good result.

[Macca 17,120]

16 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

All I can remember from this draft is the phantom drafts had us taking Heppell and Lynch. 

The thing is, if you picked McDonald with pick 12 and cook with 53 nothing would be said.

To end up with McDonald and Howe with the picks we had was actually a pretty good result.

Like I have always said,  you go to the draft with trepidation.  I am not against drafting because clubs have to draft at least 3 prospects.

But that is all they are - prospects.  Drafting is high risk but more so with top end picks or top 10 picks.  As we've found out.

With all those busts we probably would have been better off drawing names out of a hat.

And T-Mac was always going to be a late pick based on his junior form so we could have still got him as well as using the Cook pick on proven talent.  So we end up with 2 decent players instead of one.

From my point of view the above is not a hindsight comment.  It might look thay way to others but my posting history here says otherwise.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Macca

[Demonstone 23,446]

I believe we had our sights set on Tom Lynch at pick 12.   Gold Coast took him with pick 11.

Seems we were determined to draft a KPF with that pick and considered Lucas Cook the next best choice.

[Adam The God 30,645]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I was joking really.

Dont know enough about thus years current crop to make a comment. 

But from what I've read and seen, I'd be happy with Serong at pick 3 if we hold on to it. 

Has all the attributes we need for a small high pressure forward who can also run through the midfield. 

Aren't you a scout or a member of a recruiting team at an AFL club? I thought you were.

[Redleg 42,053]

1 hour ago, demonstone said:

I believe we had our sights set on Tom Lynch at pick 12.   Gold Coast took him with pick 11.

Seems we were determined to draft a KPF with that pick and considered Lucas Cook the next best choice.

Correct and we considered very wrongly, in fact disastrously.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

13 hours ago, Macca said:

Scully & Trengove were the standout picks too.  Martin was 3rd pick but was always 3rd choice

Yet Martin is now being talked about as an all-time great and one of the best ever.  Pick 3.

And even though pick 3 'could' unearth another star the smarter percentage play is to trade the pick for proven talent.  At least you know what you're getting that way.  And draft picks are grossly overvalued

There's even a points system attached to the picks as if busts should never happen.  It's just nonsense.  Pure unadulterated nonsense.

Who would you draft our pick 3 for?

[Deeman 1,551]

Do the Suns get Phil Scully too?

[Wunders 397]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10/01/hawthorn-very-keen-to-nab-noah-anderson-in-deal-with-suns/

Now that's interesting if they want pick 2 for him.. very interesting. I can't see gold coast doing it.

[Demonstone 23,446]

7 minutes ago, Wunders said:

I can't see gold coast doing it

It would make a mockery of their supposed desire to draft the two best mates in Rowell and Anderson at picks one and two.

[TRIGON 4,797]

12 minutes ago, Wunders said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10/01/hawthorn-very-keen-to-nab-noah-anderson-in-deal-with-suns/

Now that's interesting if they want pick 2 for him.. very interesting. I can't see gold coast doing it.

So, is Mark Evans working for?

a) Gold Coast Suns

b) Hawthorn

c) AFL

d) All of the above

[AshleyH30 566]

10 minutes ago, Wunders said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10/01/hawthorn-very-keen-to-nab-noah-anderson-in-deal-with-suns/

Now that's interesting if they want pick 2 for him.. very interesting. I can't see gold coast doing it.

I can not see this happening. A lot of Teams would Crack it if they did. Most of the clubs have remained silent at the AFL's request. I'm sure pitchforks would be out, and the AFL wouldn't be happy either. They're taking Rowell and Anderson. People thinking we could trade pick 3 and extra to get pick 2 are also dreaming.

[Macca 17,120]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who would you draft our pick 3 for?

I wouldn't necessarily draft a player or if I did it might be the choice of 6 - 8 players

I'd be more looking at trading in a Prestia or Sheil type for the pick with maybe a late 2nd rounder coming back our way as well. But I believe we might have to use 1 first round draft pick on a draftee this year so with some astute trading we could trade pick 3 and work our way back to a pick somewhere between 11 & 16.  Time will tell

We have to remember that in real terms draft pick numbers are overvalued.  For instance,  I value Prestia or Sheil as being worth 2 x top 10 picks.  Many would disagree but if the strike is 50/50 then 2 top 10 picks is therefore fair.  Collingwood coughed up 2 x top 10 picks for Treloar but that's the outlier trade. 

But as previously stated,  the busts are going to happen because of the very nature of drafting.  It's not a colossal amount of clubs making a colossal amount of unforced errors.

The system is a lottery or a glorified lucky dip.  But here's the thing,  if you or anyone else puts aside all the bad news,  the draft can be seen as entirely accurate. 

But bad news is bad news.  It just cannot be ignored.  The entire history of drafting backs up my assertions.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Macca

[Demon Disciple 12,495]

I'm sorry but Chris Pelchen is the day before yesterday's news.

He's been riding the coattails of his success at Hawthorn for nearly 15 years now. If you look at how he did at the Saints, you could interpret that he got rather lucky when at the Hawks (or was simply in the right place at the right time).

Some people just fail to accept that time has passed them by.

[Jara 1,153]

3 hours ago, AshleyH30 said:

I can not see this happening. A lot of Teams would Crack it if they did. Most of the clubs have remained silent at the AFL's request. I'm sure pitchforks would be out, and the AFL wouldn't be happy either. They're taking Rowell and Anderson. People thinking we could trade pick 3 and extra to get pick 2 are also dreaming.

I see in this morning's Age Peter Gordon is expressing his displeasure at the GC debacle.

Nothing from us, of course  (unless I've missed it) 

Gentlemen.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

18 hours ago, Macca said:

And if your Aunty had balls she'd be your Uncle

What the hell were you saying at the time?  Serious question.  But be careful,  everything you said at the time is written in stone.  Everythng.  Own your words.

All these if's and but's are BS. Pure BS

We picked star under 18 prospects.  All of them were standout juniors.  All of them.

The draft is flawed.  It's factual,  not an opinion. 

You've been sold a lemon Gonzo.  You and 1000's of others.  Wake up and quit your complaining

The clubs choices were your choices.  Deal with it.

 

 

Not sure why you're being so aggressive about it, I wanted Scully and Trengove, I thought the selections of Gysberts, Cook and Toumpas were mistakes. Buy it's not up to me, what the hell do I know? I might see 5 minutes of YouTube highlights on these kids if I'm lucky, we employ people whose job it is to know this stuff.

The draft isn't the panacea but it can't be ignored altogether. Do that and you're stuffed. The fact is it is a lottery but the more chances you have the more chances you have to get it right. You also need to have the right environment to bring these kids into and let them develop, expecting them to put the team on their back and drag them up the ladder is doomed to failure.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

7 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

All I can remember from this draft is the phantom drafts had us taking Heppell and Lynch. 

The thing is, if you picked McDonald with pick 12 and cook with 53 nothing would be said.

To end up with McDonald and Howe with the picks we had was actually a pretty good result.

I wanted Lynch and was annoyed Gold Coast got him the pick before us. I thought it was stupid we didn't then take Darling. But other than a handful of players I wouldn't have known much about these kids being drafted. I don't think I'd even heard much if anything about Lucas cook before we drafted him but I could be wrong, it was 10 years ago

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

7 hours ago, demonstone said:

I believe we had our sights set on Tom Lynch at pick 12.   Gold Coast took him with pick 11.

Seems we were determined to draft a KPF with that pick and considered Lucas Cook the next best choice.

We should've taken Darling but got spooked from the propaganda coming out of WA .

Taking Gysberts before Talia was another massive error that people called at the time. Toumpas over wines as well. None of these are hindsight, most thought this at the time

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who would you draft our pick 3 for?

That should be "trade" not draft, can't edit the post

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

4 hours ago, Macca said:

I wouldn't necessarily draft a player or if I did it might be the choice of 6 - 8 players

I'd be more looking at trading in a Prestia or Sheil type for the pick with maybe a late 2nd rounder coming back our way as well. But I believe we might have to use 1 first round draft pick on a draftee this year so with some astute trading we could trade pick 3 and work our way back to a pick somewhere between 11 & 16.  Time will tell

We have to remember that in real terms draft pick numbers are overvalued.  For instance,  I value Prestia or Sheil as being worth 2 x top 10 picks.  Many would disagree but if the strike is 50/50 then 2 top 10 picks is therefore fair.  Collingwood coughed up 2 x top 10 picks for Treloar but that's the outlier trade. 

But as previously stated,  the busts are going to happen because of the very nature of drafting.  It's not a colossal amount of clubs making a colossal amount of unforced errors.

The system is a lottery or a glorified lucky dip.  But here's the thing,  if you or anyone else puts aside all the bad news,  the draft can be seen as entirely accurate. 

But bad news is bad news.  It just cannot be ignored.  The entire history of drafting backs up my assertions.

Sorry mate, I meant who would you trade in for pick 3? It's all well and good to say " a Prestia or Shiel type" but if there's none on the market there's not much you can do about it except take it to the draft.

[Macca 17,120]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Not sure why you're being so aggressive about it, I wanted Scully and Trengove, I thought the selections of Gysberts, Cook and Toumpas were mistakes. Buy it's not up to me, what the hell do I know? I might see 5 minutes of YouTube highlights on these kids if I'm lucky, we employ people whose job it is to know this stuff.

The draft isn't the panacea but it can't be ignored altogether. Do that and you're stuffed. The fact is it is a lottery but the more chances you have the more chances you have to get it right. You also need to have the right environment to bring these kids into and let them develop, expecting them to put the team on their back and drag them up the ladder is doomed to failure.

And I am not saying that we ignore the draft altogether.  I am simply pointing out the flaws in the draft. 

Nothing is perfect,  least of all the draft.  But you'd never know it if you'd only ventured here. 

And be honest here,  did you stuck your neck out at the time and mention that the selection of Gysberts,  Toumpas & Cook were mistakes. 

See it's easy in hindsight to make those claims but I've read all the threads here on all 3 players and not one bad word was said about any of the 3.  Not a word

Most of the appraisals are said in hindsight.  After they started playing for the club.  Nearly all of them in fact.

 

 

[Macca 17,120]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I wanted Lynch and was annoyed Gold Coast got him the pick before us. I thought it was stupid we didn't then take Darling. But other than a handful of players I wouldn't have known much about these kids being drafted. I don't think I'd even heard much if anything about Lucas cook before we drafted him but I could be wrong, it was 10 years ago

Cook was the all Australian CHF in his draft year. 

Plenty here knew about him and when we drafted him many were rapt to get him.  Do a search and read the threads on him if you want the proof

Lynch wasn't really mentioned by anyone.  More so later (which is too late)

But the information that comes later is often used as an argument when looking back

Quite frankly,  I don't ever believe a word of it.

The 'I tipped this' people.  That's a laugh.

[deebug 1,754]

1 hour ago, Jara said:

I see in this morning's Age Peter Gordon is expressing his displeasure at the GC debacle.

Nothing from us, of course  (unless I've missed it) 

Gentlemen.

This is what is p($$(&! me off as well. Not one person, it just shows how week clubs have become.

If the dawks get Anderson, i will lose it, maybe this was there game all along? 

I only just found out that Anderson father used to play for the dowks.

 

 

[Macca 17,120]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sorry mate, I meant who would you trade in for pick 3? It's all well and good to say " a Prestia or Shiel type" but if there's none on the market there's not much you can do about it except take it to the draft.

See if we were in the business of trading for talent (at the top end) we'd have any number of potential suiters in our sights. 

Just think about how sport is organised in the USA for instance.  Or big time soccer

Any number of top-notch sportsmen are traded for or purchased at the the drop of a hat.  Contracted or not.

The same thing is starting to happen here in Oz but there is nothing to stop our club from aggressively pursuing any talented player. 

Hell,  we landed Moore & Templeton from nowhere back in 1982.  The story broke very late when the deals had already been done.  Forget the results,  that's not my point.  With that double move,  we started becoming a player again.  But we never had the money to land a half a dozen more talented players back then.

So yeah,  I'd be ultra aggressive in pursuing top end talent.  Proven talent. And I'd use draft picks but I'd trade out a player or 2 to get more draft picks to trade for more talent.

And to get what you need some tough decisions need to be made.  There aren't many of the existing players that I'd rule out either (in terms of trading out)

Edited October 1, 2019 by Macca