1 minute ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

 

Sam Mitchell didn't disrupt Hawthorns entire midfield structure, our midfield looks clearly better without Jack in it, but he walks into the side, and captaincy because his sir name is Viney. 

if his sir name was Brayshaw he'd 100% be on the trade block.

That wasnt the point at all but whatever. 

5 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

11 tackles in his first final, more than anyone on the ground and spent less time on the ground than anyone  and 27 disposals 17 contested both of them game high and still spent less than anyone on the ground for Melbourne in the second final, But yeah sure lets trade out a captain and a player who is 10 times more the competitor than 90% of our list.

I dont overrate his importance, i just rate his importance.

Sure, but I didn't say he played poorly in the finals, I said we did fine without him and as a co-captain of a team lacking "connection" it's an indictment on his leadership that he's the worst kick inside 50 in the AFL.

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

Angus can be a great Kick when he takes the time to care and look, that hasn't happened all year.  Over their career, Jacks Disposal Eff is better and he turns it over less than Angus. But you rate it better so thats ok.

 

Just my opinion, no need to get your knickers in a knot, as usual.

 

2 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Angus can be a great Kick when he takes the time to care and look, that hasn't happened all year.  Over their career, Jacks Disposal Eff is better and he turns it over less than Angus. But you rate it better so thats ok.

 

Disposal efficiency is a useless stat, but nevertheless I don't think 0.7% is much to write home about especially given most of Viney's disposals are handballs, and most of Brayshaw's are kicks.

Just now, Lord Nev said:

Disposal efficiency is a useless stat, but nevertheless I don't think 0.7% is much to write home about especially given most of Viney's disposals are handballs, and most of Brayshaw's are kicks.

Stats can be skewed to suit either side of the argument, you said some overrate his importance i disagree, but thats ok, we are allowed to.

25 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

IF that is true (source?) then it's not brave, it's completely stupid and horrible management from the club.

Wouldn’t be the first time the club has done something stupid when it comes to player management. If he is injured, and I suspect he is, I have no [censored] clue why they are being so cruel as to play him week after week, out of position, and watch him lose all confidence. 

I almost don’t know what I prefer to believe, that Gus is no good, or that the club are so stupid. 

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

Stats can be skewed to suit either side of the argument, you said some overrate his importance i disagree, but thats ok, we are allowed to.

I'm using the stats you brought up mate.

5 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Just my opinion, no need to get your knickers in a knot, as usual.

 

no worries, i remember you pulling me up on my opinions recently, so i guess i just thought thats what we do here. 

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm using the stats you brought up mate.

exactly, and making them sound like they are not a big deal because they dont suit your opinion. 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Demon3 said:

exactly, and making them sound like they are not a big deal because they dont suit your opinion.

No mate, they're are not a big deal full stop. Please follow this:

There's 0.7% difference in their disposal efficiency.

Disposal efficiency is not a good stat. There are situations where you can turn the ball over and it counts as an "effective disposal".

Disposal efficiency also lacks context - for example handballs would more often hit a target.

Further to that, Viney handballs 58% of the time, Brayshaw handballs 43% of the time, so clearly that effects that number.

I'm doing the exact opposite of "skewing" the stats, I'm actually looking at them properly.

In my opinion, if he doesn't improve his output, he should be floated as a trade..

Oliver has shown determination this year, Angus looks to be in 3rd gear.

12 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

exactly, and making them sound like they are not a big deal because they dont suit your opinion. 

 

 

 

 

To quote the great Mark Bosnich

"Stats are like a bikini, they show a lot, but not everything.”

I can't believe I'm going to suggest this because I want Gus to stay. But thinking slightly outside the box...

Pick 20(ish), our 2020 first round pick and Gus for Langdon, Hill and their Pick 8(ish)

Get in the runners we need and take 2 Top 10 selections to the draft backing ourselves to climb again next year. 

 

Trade him for sure. 

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No mate, they're are not a big deal full stop. Please follow this:

There's 0.7% difference in their disposal efficiency.

Disposal efficiency is not a good stat. There are situations where you can turn the ball over and it counts as an "effective disposal".

Disposal efficiency also lacks context - for example handballs would more often hit a target.

Further to that, Viney handballs 58% of the time, Brayshaw handballs 43% of the time, so clearly that effects that number.

I'm doing the exact opposite of "skewing" the stats, I'm actually looking at them properly.

God you and your know it all mates are hard work, especially when you get challenged on something. I am doing the same, i looked at the stats and said Vineys Disp Eff is better,  you say its only 0.7% better so its not really relevant, i say thats fair, you can skew stas to suit any argument, you say stats arent a big deal then real of numbers and percentages to back up your argument. LOL. 

Its so draining not being able to have balanced conversations which i tried to do. 

Also im not your mate.

 

40 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Clearly something is amiss with Brayshaw. On Saturday night I was able to go down to the rooms after the match, as they came down the race to the rooms Goody had his arm around Brayshaw who looked distressed.   Mind you they all looked pretty close to distressed and I was left in no doubt as a group they are hurting. I actually found the looks on their faces pretty confronting. 

Pre game McDonald spoke at the club function and said that all the players know its hard for the supporters to turn up but it means a lot to the playing group that supporters turn up. Goody also turned up briefly and said the players remain united. 

 

Thanks, I am glad to see Goody showing he has that side to his nature. 

1 minute ago, Demon3 said:

God you and your know it all mates are hard work, especially when you get challenged on something. I am doing the same, i looked at the stats and said Vineys Disp Eff is better,  you say its only 0.7% better so its not really relevant, i say thats fair, you can skew stas to suit any argument, you say stats arent a big deal then real of numbers and percentages to back up your argument. LOL. 

Its so draining not being able to have balanced conversations which i tried to do. 

Also im not your mate.

Look, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. I discussed the point with you, provided context and further stats as well as some further analysis. If you want to talk about the topic that's what I'm here for. Apologies for calling you mate, I won't make that mistake again.

23 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

no worries, i remember you pulling me up on my opinions recently, so i guess i just thought thats what we do here. 

You must stew over every poster then.

You're posting non stop and bagging everyone else's opinion, then getting found out with nuance (e.g. by Lord Nev). Give it a rest.

You think Viney is a better kick than Gus. That's cool. Few will agree with you. No biggie 

Just now, Moonshadow said:

You must stew over every poster then.

You're posting non stop and bagging everyone else's opinion, then getting found out with nuance (e.g. by Lord Nev). Give it a rest.

You think Viney is a better kick than Gus. That's cool. Few will agree with you. No biggie 

Lol,  I am up for balanced discussion, happy to admit when someone makes a good point, i like the banter and love discussing the club with like minded people, and i dont mind a bit  of an argument, sure, im not going to roll over and be talked down to, ill stick up for myself. I mean yeah i post a lot, but its all relative when you compare it to 12, 931 posts.

Im basically the opposite of you. 

5 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Lol,  I am up for balanced discussion, happy to admit when someone makes a good point, i like the banter and love discussing the club with like minded people, and i dont mind a bit  of an argument, sure, im not going to roll over and be talked down to, ill stick up for myself. I mean yeah i post a lot, but its all relative when you compare it to 12, 931 posts.

Im basically the opposite of you. 

That explains why you're so bitter. You started this.

Whatever. Try and ease off the angry pills, pal. They don't work well for you

C ya

 

Gus has 3 more years on what I assume is a pretty decent contract, are we sure anyone even wants to trade for him? 

If he was at another club I wouldn't be racing out to get him with anything like a top 25 pick. Especially given his concussion history it would be a huge risk based around a number of games in 2018 where he was really prolific and strong at winning the ball but hardly all that skilled.

Right now he just doesn't have any pace or confidence. I'd probably play him half back and have the game come to him, he'll get some easy touches by reading the play and winning it. See if that keeps it simple for him for the last 3 weeks.

Otherwise it has to be a lack of confidence and physical limitations because he looks so far off it. It's going to take some Darren Burgess miracle work and if it does go to plan that will mean more fitness and burst for Viney, Oliver, Petracca and Harmes as well and then they can all rotate through.

 

The little paper today was suggesting a trade for Gus might be the tonic he needs and that Langdon and Cerra could be in the equation.

Edited August 5, 20195 yr by Moonshadow

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Right now he just doesn't have any pace or confidence. I'd probably play him half back and have the game come to him, he'll get some easy touches by reading the play and winning it. See if that keeps it simple for him for the last 3 weeks

Yeah, I posted a similar (but opposite haha) thing in the match preview thread. I suggested playing him forward, like deeper forward, where maybe he can snag a couple of goals, get involved in some scoring, just generally do some things that might bring him some enjoyment from his footy. Similar mindset to what you're suggesting with the half back idea, just a different end of the ground.

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

That explains why you're so bitter. You started this.

Whatever. Try and ease off the angry pills, pal. They don't work well for you

C ya

 

Haha, you know you have really gotten to someone when they go down the  "Mate" or the "Pal" track.

C ya Moonie, have a wonderful evening and hope we can chat again soon.

Honestly, I'm just annoyed by this thread.

In form, Angus Brayshaw is a top quality midfielder with calm vision and initiative to make things happening.

Our of form, not so much. But also, crap trade value.

Trading him because of his poor form this year, when half the team has had a poor year, would be blatant and unreasonable scapegoating and foolish from a list development level as well as a team solidarity level.

Some people need to find healthier ways to manage their emotions.