Jack Viney and the medical staff...

[Lucifers Hero 40,623]

9 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Did anyone watch Viney closely on Sat, was he limping?  

excuse my ignorance LH but does playing 3 quarters mean be played 75% game time or sat out a quarter?  if the former I would have thought that is pretty good game time for Viney

Not sure when he was off but I don't think he was off for a full quarter.

I would like to think a fit Viney would play more time especially when we have our back to the wall, a situation he thrives in.  

I didn't see if he was limping, he had the ice pack during a post game interview.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[chookrat 4,268]

I think Jack's doing fine. Played limited minutes in VFL during JLT2, 65% in round 1 and limited impact due to corkie, 75% in round 2 and I'd expect would build to 85% over the next few games. I reckon he will tear game apart for a quarter on Friday and will be primed for Sydney and St Kilda for BOG on Anzac eve v Richmond. 

[TGR 1,367]

9 hours ago, DubDee said:

Did anyone watch Viney closely on Sat, was he limping?  

excuse my ignorance LH but does playing 3 quarters mean be played 75% game time or sat out a quarter?  if the former I would have thought that is pretty good game time for Viney

Didn’t notice a limp on Saturday night

[TGR 1,367]

Gee wiz, when will this end?

 

Viney injures himself.  Gets assessed.  Returns to the field when the game is over.

This is just history repeating.  Who is running the show?

 

You can spend all you like on rooster blood in Germany, hyperbaric chambers, world class facilities, the prettiest pilates instructors and the like...but it all counts for zip if you are not smart and strong enough to 'fold em' after an injury occurs.  Also, isn't this AC right near the plate he had put in courtesy of WOJO in a VFL game in his first year?

Viney's foot....May's groin....Viney's AC....Smith??

 

Too many examples of getting blokes to play injured when the game is done or not worth anything.

 

Will all come out in Pert's review at the end of the year, but these are basics that are not being adhered to.

 

 

[hemingway 7,633]

5 minutes ago, TGR said:

Gee wiz, when will this end?

 

Viney injures himself.  Gets assessed.  Returns to the field when the game is over.

This is just history repeating.  Who is running the show?

 

You can spend all you like on rooster blood in Germany, hyperbaric chambers, world class facilities, the prettiest pilates instructors and the like...but it all counts for zip if you are not smart and strong enough to 'fold em' after an injury occurs.  Also, isn't this AC right near the plate he had put in courtesy of WOJO in a VFL game in his first year?

Viney's foot....May's groin....Viney's AC....Smith??

 

Too many examples of getting blokes to play injured when the game is done or not worth anything.

 

Will all come out in Pert's review at the end of the year, but these are basics that are not being adhered to.

 

 

You do have to wonder.

The macho bravado of footy means that players 9 times out of 10 will play on if they can. Its a battlefield and the brave and wounded always want to carry on.

At the same time, medicos and other support staff are influenced by the need to get players back on the field wherever possible.

But there needs to be expert diagnosis/assessment and common sense used.

Is the club doctor on the bench and who has the final call on whether an injured player plays on ?

I would have thought that these days, if there is any doubt about the seriousness of an injury, the player should not return to the game. In other words, the club doctor not the fitness guy or physio has the call. 

With the risk of long term injury and even litigation, caution seems to be operative word, or should be. 

Everyone rattles on about the professionalism of the game, but at times, the game appears very unprofessional. 

It would be interesting to know what is the decision making hierarchy for these matters.  

[rjay 25,384]

Viney has been playing limited game time and his impact has been negative.

Love his intensity (on the ground, it's a negative off) and desire but we need more than that from Jack...needs to take time off and watch the career tapes of Joel Selwood to see how it's done.

Joel plays team first, Jack thinks he does and that's the difference in attitude at least.

Joel is of course the much better footballer.

Get the attitude right Jack and your football will improve.

[DeeSpencer 26,567]

A low grade AC joint injury that's 1-2 weeks isn't really a significant risk of further injury. They strapped it back up and had him play out the game. Adrenaline lets you do that.

As the swelling and soreness continues you then have to miss a week or two before playing again.

I know Jack has had his issues with injury management before but I don't think this is one of them.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

You do have to wonder.

The macho bravado of footy means that players 9 times out of 10 will play on if they can. Its a battlefield and the brave and wounded always want to carry on.

At the same time, medicos and other support staff are influenced by the need to get players back on the field wherever possible.

But there needs to be expert diagnosis/assessment and common sense used.

Is the club doctor on the bench and who has the final call on whether an injured player plays on ?

I would have thought that these days, if there is any doubt about the seriousness of an injury, the player should not return to the game. In other words, the club doctor not the fitness guy or physio has the call. 

With the risk of long term injury and even litigation, caution seems to be operative word, or should be. 

Everyone rattles on about the professionalism of the game, but at times, the game appears very unprofessional. 

It would be interesting to know what is the decision making hierarchy for these matters.  

I agree,  'Hw'.

However, If the team and list is on the downward plane.  and a player in question (injury) was playing in a Grand Final,  and is a key and skilled player, then you might roll the dice, if its necessary for the Premiership Win.

 

Otherwise,  for a team and list that is on the upward plane, and still building... then Please Melbourne,  don't take risks with players of our future.

.

[hemingway 7,633]

2 minutes ago, DV8 said:

I agree,  'Hw'.

However, If the team and list is on the downward plane.  and a player in question (injury) was playing in a Grand Final,  and is a key and skilled player, then you might roll the dice, if its necessary for the Premiership Win.

 

Otherwise,  for a team and list that is on the upward plane, and still building... then Please Melbourne,  don't take risks with players of our future.

.

agree regarding the big dance and perhaps a final when all is on the line, there are exceptions to the general rule.

[DeeSpencer 26,567]

56 minutes ago, rjay said:

Viney has been playing limited game time and his impact has been negative.

Love his intensity (on the ground, it's a negative off) and desire but we need more than that from Jack...needs to take time off and watch the career tapes of Joel Selwood to see how it's done.

Joel plays team first, Jack thinks he does and that's the difference in attitude at least.

Joel is of course the much better footballer.

Get the attitude right Jack and your football will improve.

The same Selwood who spat the dummy repeatedly in last years elimination final where Viney played nearly the perfect Jack Viney game? The same Selwood who the Cats thought about putting on ice in the one year they didn't make finals and the one year he didn't play alongside (often multiple) first ballot future hall of fame midfielders? Not to mention the amount of times Selwood has turned a player about to tackle him in to a free kick before the league finally caught on to his BS.

Viney needs to get his fitness right that's for sure and always be working on his kicking, handballing and decision making. Plus there's a lot of work to be done on leadership. Observing a similar player like Selwood might be part of that. But I don't ever want him not to take the game and opponents on head first, that's a large part of his game. Some better team mates and team work and Viney has shown to be an attacking weapon at times in his career, no reason he can't get back to that.

[Deemania since 56 6,775]

On 4/2/2019 at 7:47 PM, TGR said:

Didn’t notice a limp on Saturday night

Think I spotted a limp, twice, but only briefly. Both were from static take-offs, slightly away from the play. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

Unless we win both of our next two...

If Misson & the FD have any doubts he isn't close to 100% just leave him out till the bye.  Get him 98%ish or don't risk till he's there.  Even if it means he takes the remainder of the year off in prep for 2020.

Btw anyone know what's happened to Maynard at VFL level.  Injured again?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[beelzebub 23,390]

Give him the rest of the season off..

Actually...can we just forfeit the rest of this year ? 

[rjay 25,384]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Viney needs to get his fitness right that's for sure and always be working on his kicking, handballing and decision making.

His decision making is poor and he often burns teammates where he should be working with them particularly if he's Captain...

He tries to take on way to much...

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The same Selwood who spat the dummy repeatedly in last years elimination

The same Selwood who is a 3 time premiership player, premiership captain and walk up start to the hall of fame.

[TGR 1,367]

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

A low grade AC joint injury that's 1-2 weeks isn't really a significant risk of further injury. They strapped it back up and had him play out the game. Adrenaline lets you do that.

As the swelling and soreness continues you then have to miss a week or two before playing again.

I know Jack has had his issues with injury management before but I don't think this is one of them.

A low grade AC injury is a partial tear right?  So what happens when you subject more tension (+/- shear) to a partial tear?  1+1=2

The basics here are not being adhered to, in more ways than one.

I admit that diagnosing in the heat of battle is not easy.  But when you have a player in a game that is over, there is no upside at all.  The outsider can't really make a call most times, but when you have clear examples of injured players being put out again in dead rubbers/phases, then it absolutely astounds me, as it should most paid up members that are looking at the sky and asking why are we in this predicament. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by TGR

[spirit of norm smith 16,659]

Afl injury list says “hand” 2 weeks. I thought it was his shoulder.  And his foot also is fragile.  

They might have to rebuild him. 

[DubDee 26,472]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

A low grade AC injury is a partial tear right?  So what happens when you subject more tension (+/- shear) to a partial tear?  1+1=2

The basics here are not being adhered to, in more ways than one.

I admit that diagnosing in the heat of battle is not easy.  But when you have a player in a game that is over, there is no upside at all.  The outsider can't really make a call most times, but when you have clear examples of injured players being put out again in dead rubbers/phases, then it absolutely astounds me, as it should most paid up members that are looking at the sky and asking why are we in this predicament. 

Calm down mate. Every club does it. Like Riewoldt against us. He came back on and now is out for 8. Impossible to diagnose some issues so if you’re sore you get back out there. It’s footy

[DeeSpencer 26,567]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

A low grade AC injury is a partial tear right?  So what happens when you subject more tension (+/- shear) to a partial tear?  1+1=2

The basics here are not being adhered to, in more ways than one.

I admit that diagnosing in the heat of battle is not easy.  But when you have a player in a game that is over, there is no upside at all.  The outsider can't really make a call most times, but when you have clear examples of injured players being put out again in dead rubbers/phases, then it absolutely astounds me, as it should most paid up members that are looking at the sky and asking why are we in this predicament. 

If there's no structural deformity it's not really significantly weaker than it was, just more painful. That pain that acts as a way to avoid further injury. You don't tackle with that side, don't land on it and avoid the very rare chance of getting heavily bumped again.

He's the captain and they are still playing for pride. Shutting down every injured player and effectively tanking games and the season isn't a great plan for us either.

Our fitness and medical staff have a lot of improvement required, no one on here will argue against that, but it doesn't mean they are getting everything wrong. It was a 2 week injury as soon as the bump hit Jack.