Farewell Jesse Hogan

[John Demonic 5,744]

2 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Back off charlie. We're making a lot more progress on the classification of biscuits than you are on your precious Hogan trade.

Would love to hear a 4-way roundtable between Andy, Grapeviney, PJ & Special Robert this wednesday. Podcast #1 was a classic

Edited October 14, 2018 by johndemonic

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

6 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

I don't actually think the question of how Hogan goes against top sides has been answered yet. How did Weid go in that period while our midfield, defence and our coaches box were being crushed? He didn't play. But at the end of the year he got the opportunity and stepped up. Hogan never got that opportunity. It's only fair that he be assessed next year properly like Weid was, or not assessed at all.

Hogan was a 23yo 60+ gamer with a mature body going into the 2018 season.

Weid still a baby in KPF terms.

Silly comparison.

Edited October 14, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,772]

1 minute ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Back off charlie. We're making a lot more progress on the classification of biscuits than you are on your precious Hogan trade.

Is Monte Carlo a RFA after the next packet of family assorteds is shared at morning tea tomorrow?

[John Demonic 5,744]

3 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Hogan was a 23yo 60+ gamer with a mature body going into the 2018 season.

Weid still a baby in KPF terms.

Silly comparison.

You're missing the point. Weid got into the team right at an opportune moment when we had our backs against the wall and we responded. I don't think his inclusion was a defining factor in us beating WCE and GWS. So how would Hogan have gone in those games? Maybe he would have stepped up and made a big impact. The point is that Weid got the opportunity and Hogan didn't. Concluding that he can't play against top 8 teams, is the same as concluding Weid couldn't pre round 20, until he did.

Edited October 14, 2018 by johndemonic

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

12 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

Hogan was a 23yo 60+ gamer with a mature body going into the 2018 season.

Weid still a baby in KPF terms.

Silly comparison.

How did Hoges go in his first game against Rance again?

[Ethan Tremblay 30,823]

32 minutes ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

How did Hoges go in his first game against Rance again?

Kicked two goals and had 13 touches.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Ethan Tremblay

[John Demonic 5,744]

@EnterTheDragon hasn't responded for 30 minutes. Should we call an ambulance?

[rjay 24,852]

45 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

 Did you watch replays of our 8 games against the top 10 clubs where he kicked a paltry 9 goals, going missing in virtually all of them? 

Accurate perceptions are great but only if they actually are accurate.

I don't understand why we don't just delist him...

It's obvious on your reading that the kid can't play.

[DV8 2,271]

30 minutes ago, Deevout said:

Might have to wait until Wednesday night before we can break out the cigars, One way or another.

I've just been over to Freo's site on a footy forum, doin' some recon'.... and I've had another thought, since being O' there.

... seems they are moving some players on... and the thought cropped up.. are they clearing some salary cap space ???   Just guessing, as things just don't feel to add up.

If so, for whom ?

It aint over,  'til the fat lady has sung.

[deanox 9,896]

40 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

 Did you watch replays of our 8 games against the top 10 clubs where he kicked a paltry 9 goals, going missing in virtually all of them? 

Accurate perceptions are great but only if they actually are accurate.

R1 v Geelong, 3.0 goals (MFC top scorer), 16 disposals (10th highest for MFC), 3 marks

R4 v Hawks, 1.1 (2nd highest for MFC), 24 disposals (2nd highest for MFC), 3 marks

R5 v Tigers,  2.2 (2nd highest for MFC), 22 disposals (5th highest for MFC), 9 marks

R12 v Pies 0.1, 17 disposals (=7th for MFC), 3 marks

R18 v Geelong 1.1, 14 disposals, 4 marks

R21 v Sydney 1.3 (=most scoring shots,  3rd highest scorer), 19 disposals (9th for MFC), 4 marks

 

Those are his 6 games against top 8 sides. Averaging 18.6 disposals, 1.3 goals, 2.6 scoring shots, and 4.3 marks.

I would hardly call 18.6 disposals and 2.6 shots on goal "going missing" given lost all those games (and were thrashed in three of them). 

 

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

6 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

@EnterTheDragon hasn't responded for 30 minutes. Should we call an ambulance?

Or celebrate?

[Adam The God 30,112]

1 hour ago, sue said:

They may engage in shenanigans but are you so naive as to think that would affect a pro team of opponents?

You're not reading my posts mate. I certainly didn't say it and I don't believe I read that Drags had said it either.

I think what we're both saying is that Freo are such a basket case (Exhibit A the alleged Kelly trade attempt and Exhibit B the backflip on the alleged agreement between Jesse's management, the MFC and FFC of pick 6's involvement in the Jesse trade) that they might be naive enough to think those sort of shenanigans would affect their pro opponents in trade negotiations.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

54 minutes ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

How did Hoges go in his first game against Rance again?

Referring back to one game three years ago doesn’t exactly sell your argument.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,772]

39 minutes ago, johndemonic said:

@EnterTheDragon hasn't responded for 30 minutes. Should we call an ambulance?

He lives

Put the Defibrillator away...

[RalphiusMaximus 6,018]

33 minutes ago, deanox said:

R1 v Geelong, 3.0 goals (MFC top scorer), 16 disposals (10th highest for MFC), 3 marks

R4 v Hawks, 1.1 (2nd highest for MFC), 24 disposals (2nd highest for MFC), 3 marks

R5 v Tigers,  2.2 (2nd highest for MFC), 22 disposals (5th highest for MFC), 9 marks

R12 v Pies 0.1, 17 disposals (=7th for MFC), 3 marks

R18 v Geelong 1.1, 14 disposals, 4 marks

R21 v Sydney 1.3 (=most scoring shots,  3rd highest scorer), 19 disposals (9th for MFC), 4 marks

 

Those are his 6 games against top 8 sides. Averaging 18.6 disposals, 1.3 goals, 2.6 scoring shots, and 4.3 marks.

I would hardly call 18.6 disposals and 2.6 shots on goal "going missing" given lost all those games (and were thrashed in three of them). 

 

Also it needs to be noted that the delivery to our forwards in those games was substantially poorer than our usual low standard due to the increased pressure on our midfield.  No forward in the History of the game can kick goals when the pass he's supposed to get on the end of goes 30m astray and lands in the arms of an unmarked defender. 

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

R1 v Geelong, 3.0 goals (MFC top scorer), 16 disposals (10th highest for MFC), 3 marks

R4 v Hawks, 1.1 (2nd highest for MFC), 24 disposals (2nd highest for MFC), 3 marks

R5 v Tigers,  2.2 (2nd highest for MFC), 22 disposals (5th highest for MFC), 9 marks

R12 v Pies 0.1, 17 disposals (=7th for MFC), 3 marks

R18 v Geelong 1.1, 14 disposals, 4 marks

R21 v Sydney 1.3 (=most scoring shots,  3rd highest scorer), 19 disposals (9th for MFC), 4 marks

 

Those are his 6 games against top 8 sides. Averaging 18.6 disposals, 1.3 goals, 2.6 scoring shots, and 4.3 marks.

I would hardly call 18.6 disposals and 2.6 shots on goal "going missing" given lost all those games (and were thrashed in three of them). 

 

You’re reaching deanox. 

9 goals in 8 games against top 10 teams. 

That tells me he was comprehensively pantsed by the better defenders in the league and went kick chasing to wide positions upfield out of frustration.  Check his heatmaps you will see. 

I understand it doesn’t gel with the whole “generational player” schtick but there it is.

The FD see what I see. Which is why we’re not bending over backwards to keep him. 

Okay to good player but something’s missing.

Edited October 14, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

14 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Also it needs to be noted that the delivery to our forwards in those games was substantially poorer than our usual low standard due to the increased pressure on our midfield.  No forward in the History of the game can kick goals when the pass he's supposed to get on the end of goes 30m astray and lands in the arms of an unmarked defender. 

Poor bugga didn’t get it lace out at hip height into the breadbasket enough. Got it.

What else have you got in your excuse Rolodex?

Edited October 14, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

15 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

He lives

Put the Defibrillator away...

Pretty sure it was never taken out....

[deanox 9,896]

11 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

You’re teaching deanox. 

9 goals in 8 games against top 10 teams. 

That tells me he was comprehensively pantsed by the better defenders in the league and went kick chasing to wide positions upfield out of frustration.  Check his heatmaps you will see. 

I understand it doesn’t gel with the whole “generational player” schtick but there it is.

The FD see what I see. Which is why we’re not bending over backwards to keep him. 

Okay to good player but something’s missing.

Do you think he chose to chase kicks because he was losing the defensive battle,  or do you think he was utilized further upfield because we were getting pantsed in the midfield, we needed someone to try and change the game,  and his field kicking is high quality?

 

I suspect it's a bit of both, but we were deliberately playing him upfield early in the season where he was having a great enough impact that he was being discussed as AA CHF at the half way mark of the season.

Garry Lyon had him there mid season based on 19.7 disposals and 2.6 goals.  https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/allaustralian-2018-afl-squad-garry-lyon-released-midseason-best-22/news-story/a5e4190718a3502ccab8205dc2c42911

Afl.com.au did too http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-07/who-makes-our-midseason-all-australian-team

 

Yeah I agree his output was lower in those games, but do you really think it is purely because he isn't good? Or that he is a "bully" or a down hill skier? Or do you think other factors like "we lost all games against the top 10 teams while he was playing" come into it?

I mean he featured in mark of the year, while on a beautiful lead in stacks of space but Pedo kicked it over his head. Fix that terrible kick and he scores. That's why Hawkins kicked 7 in round 18: midfield service. And Hogan rarely gets that kind of service.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

1 hour ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Is Monte Carlo a RFA after the next packet of family assorteds is shared at morning tea tomorrow?

How many [censored] times do we need to go over this?

He's not a free agent. His contract runs out at afternoon tea tomorrow, and if no trades are done for him, he'll be available on the tearoom bench. If nobody picks him up, he'll be de-plated and go back in the cupboard, at which time he can move to anyone with the munchies.

There were early rumours that Phil Scully was looking to do a trade for him, but suddenly some KFC became available and all his decent picks are going on that. Regardless, I can't see him getting through the pre-work session, Phil's generally first in the kitchen of a morning.

[binman 42,614]

32 minutes ago, EnterTheDragon said:

You’re teaching deanox. 

9 goals in 8 games against top 10 teams. 

That tells me he was comprehensively pantsed by the better defenders in the league and went kick chasing to wide positions upfield out of frustration.  Check his heatmaps you will see. 

I understand it doesn’t gel with the whole “generational player” schtick but there it is.

The FD see what I see. Which is why we’re not bending over backwards to keep him. 

Okay to good player but something’s missing.

The FD see what you see.

A serious question. Is that a joke?

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

9 minutes ago, binman said:

The FD see what you see.

A serious question. Is that a joke?

A joke reply. Are you questioning my seriousness? 

[old55 23,357]

8 hours ago, phoenix said:

Careful buddy. 

70 posts in 13 years. ETD makes that many per hour.

Quality over Quantity?

Edited October 14, 2018 by Fifty-5

[Pates 9,659]

The Jesse goes missing against the top teams argument is a chicken or the egg argument. We were beaten in those games in the midfield (except the first Geelong game where he played well), so does it stand to reason that in order for him to have a good game that the midfield is able to deliver it better into him and the other forwards to maximise their opportunities?

I’m not denying his lower output against better opposition but it’s like pointing out that Weids had a bad game vs WC in the prelim final, of course he did! The midfield was pantsed so he never got any opportunity. 

One thing I feel he needs to work on is staying in the contest longer against better teams, he seems to give up a bit (at least body language wise) when the good teams are able to set up denying him good one on one opportunities. But here’s the good news, he’s still young so he can keep working on these things and I truly believe that at some point in his career (whether it’s with us or someone else) he will clearly be the best KP forward. 

[old55 23,357]

5 hours ago, Nasher said:

I’m confused about what’s confusing. Gist of post: pick 5 and 14, or 5 and 23 = not an enormous difference. Is that a bewildering proposition?

On points 14 = 23 + 45.  When your first two picks are 36 and 46 it probably does make a difference.