Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Lord Neville X Flash 281]

 

33 minutes ago, binman said:

And if we do lose him to free agency we will be well compensated given the price on his head and age in the same way we were when we lost Frawley - who we got a number 3 draft pick for (which allowed us to pick up Oliver IIIRC). 

We didnt get oliver he went later than pick 3. Also Hawthorn got pick 19 for franklin, as finished first that year. If we Finish in the top 4 next year and hogan leaves we will get a compensation pick of 13-19 depending on where we finish and if other clubs  (GC or carlton) get priority picks... so do you see where im coming from?

However, I looked up restricted freeagency and Lucifer's Heros is right, he won't be eligable until he's played 8 years with Melbourne. Never-the-less, if we lose hogan to freeagency we will not be compensated well. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Lord Neville X Flash

[Watts the matter 1,235]

On 9/2/2018 at 5:44 AM, No10 said:

And he’s the fastest in the AFL!

 

Interesting that 4 of the top 6 speeds were in games involving Melbourne, and 2 of the top 3 came from likely opponents in the same game.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

On 9/3/2018 at 9:04 PM, Moonshadow said:

I think it's time for posters to stop demanding the thread be closed because others are interested in respectfully discussing Hogan's hypothetical trade value, likely or not.

It is a measure of his worth to the MFC, but just one of a myriad of values that he 'adds' to the team. Hence, a trade is out of the question.

What is required is an improved demonstration by the FD of how to better utilise the skills that he has, brings to the team, with which he strengthens the team and produces with the team. Too often, far too often, the ball lands on his head or beyond it, and he receives no support from teammates against his 3 or 4 opponents from delivery using the long bombs. That assumes that there are at least three Dees' players untethered with an opponent at that moment - how come? He is a runner, let him go to the ball. 

[Superunknown 4,217]

Trade is out of the question - now that is an interesting assertion.

[binman 42,949]

45 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

You make good points, don't understand why you are so set on throwing insults around however. 

I was never indicating that we hold a gun to his head and make him sign.

One i never threw any insults around. I don't play the man.

Two, you said:

Don't get me wrong, if Hogan wants to stay, we keep him, but he has to prove this with a contract extension. 

Sounds lot like threat to me. At the least you are saying we should ask him to prove his loyalty and commit to an extension. Prove being the key word.

As i said he does not have to PROVE anything. And to suggest he does is patent nonsense. Which is not an insult. it is an opinion. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by binman

[jnrmac 20,064]

1 hour ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

IF Hogan will not sign a contract extension at the end of this season i think we must entertain trading him, as we have Weiderman. Don't get me wrong, if Hogan wants to stay, we keep him, but he has to prove this with a contract extension.

Who are you again? When did we entertain trading Weideman?

(If you are going to troll best to get the spelling right)

[Lord Neville X Flash 281]

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Who are you again? When did we entertain trading Weideman?

(If you are going to troll best to get the spelling right)

Yeah spelling was wrong, but you read the sentence wrong as well. Congrats. I said if Hogan does not sign we must entertain trading him (Hogan), as we have Weideman waiting in the wings. 

[Lord Neville X Flash 281]

20 minutes ago, binman said:

One i never threw any insults around. I don't play the man.

Two, you said:

Don't get me wrong, if Hogan wants to stay, we keep him, but he has to prove this with a contract extension. 

Sounds lot like threat to me. At the least you are saying we should ask him to prove his loyalty and commit to an extension. Prove being the key word.

As i said he does not have to PROVE anything. And to suggest he does is patent nonsense. Which is not an insult. it is an opinion. 

I already told you multiple times i did not intend that comment as a show of loyalty, or a "threat". But thanks for telling me the meaning i intended to convey. 

I simply do not want Melbourne to receive a low first round pick if hogan decides to leave for free agency. But to be clear, i want hogan to stay for the next 10 years. 

You are clearly more interested in arguing semantics and over reacting to peoples comments than having a rational discussion. Have a nice day. 

[Demonstone 22,519]

What an indictment on the moderators that the stinking bag of pus that is this thread has been allowed to continue to fester for so long.

[beelzebub 23,374]

4 hours ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

I'm not saying he owes anyone anything. But if he waits till 2019 then he is a free agent, and can leave and we get no say in what we get for him. 

This isn't an emotional fan saying he needs to do this to show loyalty, its a pragmatic fan saying the smartest thing for the footy club to do is get a contract extension, or get the best offer before we lose him to free agency. Pretty simple. 

I think it was actually Roos who suggested you ought to try to get an expected free agent to sign a year out...or indeed look to make the best of the situation with a view to trade. He was just being very matter of fact if recall this correctly.

Whilst I concede Moonies acknowledgement that Hogan owes nothing more than already agreed to  it would be a prudent course of action to protect our ( MFC ) position

Ive no problem at all with the notion as outlined by X Flash

My focus is on us winning a flag...and who knows what might happen still this year... But after that the EOS circus I think will throw up quite a few situations and offers that are going to test the mettle of clubs.  Ours being one

[binman 42,949]

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I think it was actually Roos who suggested you ought to try to get an expected free agent to sign a year out...or indeed look to make the best of the situation with a view to trade. He was just being very matter of fact if recall this correctly.

Whilst I concede Moonies acknowledgement that Hogan owes nothing more than already agreed to  it would be a prudent course of action to protect our ( MFC ) position

Ive no problem at all with the notion as outlined by X Flash

My focus is on us winning a flag...and who knows what might happen still this year... But after that the EOS circus I think will throw up quite a few situations and offers that are going to test the mettle of clubs.  Ours being one

Did you miss rhe fact he is not a free agent unti 2021?

And lets pretend he did become a free agent to be clear you would support shopping hogan if he did not prove his loyalty by commiting to an exstension?

Edited September 5, 2018 by binman

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 hours ago, demonstone said:

What an indictment on the moderators that the stinking bag of pus that is this thread has been allowed to continue to fester for so long.

Shocking, people are actually able to discuss football matters on a football forum.

[beelzebub 23,374]

23 minutes ago, binman said:

Did you miss rhe fact he is not a free agent unti 2021?

And lets pretend he did become a free agent to be clear you would support shopping hogan if he did not prove his loyalty by commiting to an exstension?

My understanding is the new elgibility guidelines ( yet  to be sanctioned by the AFLPA ) would have Jesse as an RFA at next seasons end.

Happy to be corrected on that.

[beelzebub 23,374]

29 minutes ago, binman said:

Did you miss rhe fact he is not a free agent unti 2021?

And lets pretend he did become a free agent to be clear you would support shopping hogan if he did not prove his loyalty by commiting to an exstension?

strangely thats exactly what Roos discussed. Its about a club

[McQueen 17,864]

26 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Shocking, people are actually able to discuss football matters on a football forum.

Annoying though that whenever Hogan is out injured or in a form slump the idiots come out with a trade argument. 

[binman 42,949]

16 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

strangely thats exactly what Roos discussed. Its about a club

As i said nothing wrong wirh having a discussion a year out. 

There is something wrong with demanding a player prove his loyalty by extending and deciding if he doesn't yoy MUST trade him. Particularly a player who has shown loyalty already and rejected huge offers to stay with us

Edited September 5, 2018 by binman

[binman 42,949]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

As i said nothing wrong wirh having a discussion a year out. As i said. 

There is something wrong with demanding a player prove his loyalty by extending and deciding if he doesn't yoy MUST trade him. Particularly a player who has shown loyalty already and rejexted huge offers to stay with us

And further to that im pretty sure roosy said it the context of a scenario like steve may who is rumoured to be considering a move or fielding offers.

[beelzebub 23,374]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

As i said nothing wrong wirh having a discussion a year out. As i said. 

There is something wrong with demanding a player prove his loyalty by extending and deciding if he doesn't yoy MUST trade him. Particularly a player who has shown loyalty already and rejexted huge offers to stay with us

A discussion with said PR at the Duke I think it was a number of years back , after he had aired the notion of Free agency and what you ( as a club do to 'contain " it )   held that its not so much a matter of a player proving anything...its about a club KNOWING exactly where it sits in the whole bigger picture.  Yo always want to retain your best players but you are always going to see players move around. His thoughts were pretty much simply you get on the front foot and dont wait to be held to ransom as it were. Mr Roos looked at things very holistically...as do I . Again he was very matter of fact. I dont believe he was referring to Hogan at all as that wouldnt have been on the radar back then. It was a generic style discussion. At this moment I insert Jesse into that scenario.

I would be very surprised that if Jesse was playing with us next year it wouldnt be on a new contract.

[beelzebub 23,374]

48 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Annoying though that whenever Hogan is out injured or in a form slump the idiots come out with a trade argument. 

Then again Mr Pony Man...it would surprise many if the subject was left alone.

Someone once suggested....youre only as good as your next game.. That can be expanded upon in many directions...but ultimately its common denominator is what value a player to the team/club....not hypothetically...but really.

[Guest]

I think the equation will be muddled depending on how deep we go into September and how Weed plays in those matches.

Weed has one advantage over Jesse (though clearly Jesse has more runs on the board) and that it is he can ruck and take centre bounces. Jesse, as far as I can tell, cannot.

Alas if Weed's and Jesse's form hold up then this is a debate that will rage for a while. That being said, if Weed is made to play third banana again, you may see a drop off in his form. He strikes me as a confidence player and for him to be struck down the pecking order may have a detrimental effect on him.

[Lucifers Hero 39,792]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

My understanding is the new elgibility guidelines ( yet  to be sanctioned by the AFLPA ) would have Jesse as an RFA at next seasons end.

Happy to be corrected on that.

The AFLPA tried for 6 years instead of 8 as part of last years CBA. They failed.  Case was closed.  It is still 8 years.

Jesse will be an UFA in 2021

Edited September 5, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[beelzebub 23,374]

38 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The AFLPA tried for 6 years instead of 8 as part of last years CBA. They failed.  Case was closed.  It is still 8 years.

Jesse will be an UFA in 2021

Cheers.. thanks for clarifying that LH

[Tricky 341]

6 hours ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

I already told you multiple times i did not intend that comment as a show of loyalty, or a "threat". But thanks for telling me the meaning i intended to convey. 

I simply do not want Melbourne to receive a low first round pick if hogan decides to leave for free agency. But to be clear, i want hogan to stay for the next 10 years. 

You are clearly more interested in arguing semantics and over reacting to peoples comments than having a rational discussion. Have a nice day. 

 

Welcome to Demonland

[Diamond_Jim 12,586]

it's time

Edited September 5, 2018 by Diamond_Jim

[Wolfturdo 123]

9 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Who are you again? When did we entertain trading Weideman?

(If you are going to troll best to get the spelling right)

Haha “who are you?”. Classic