POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 21

[Fat Tony 5,330]

We lost on the weekend because of poor goal kicking but there are a number of other problems with our selection and game plan IMO.

The decision to play Pedersen as a backman when the Swans had only two key forwards was clearly an error and looked a problem after 5 minutes. It took until half time for Goodwin to see this, which was very disappointing. This included a 5-minute period in the second quarter when we had OMac, Frost and Pedersen in defence, TMac in the ruck and Hogan and Gawn on the interchange. In this period we looked unbalanced in the backline and had no target going forward.

Why did we keep kicking to Vandenberg when he was playing on Aliar? It looked like we actively sought to go through Vandenberg when we had other options.

The structure of our defence on the MCG is porous. It looks like we are trying to pressure in the fat part of the ground rather than inside our 50 or folding back to defence. 

Goodwin loves having a player off the back of the square every centre bounce, but it means we are unable to lock the ball inside 50 when we win a clearance.

[rpfc 28,992]

Yeah, I love how we play and our focus on contested footy. 

But I have never had a season where I get the text on a Thursday night about selection and be confused on so many occasions. Petty against St Kilda. Pedersen as back against a team without talls. Spargo playing so much footy for a kid in the most gruelling role in modern footy.

I would persevere with Garlett because I assume we fix how we enter the forward line and then he becomes more dangerous at the feet of Hogan and T Mac.

Out: Pedersen, Spargo, Hunt

In: Melksham, Hibberd, Kent

[Mondê 525]

Petty instead of Frost against St Kilda was incredibly stupid and arrogant.

Hunt yesterday equally mind boggling, 6 weeks out and 1 shite performance in the VFL. Since when are we rewarding mediocrity?

Selection all year has been frustrating.

[old55 23,850]

We failed to capitilise on our opportunities and that's why we lost.   It was pretty much a mirror image of our win against the Crows 2 weeks ago - of course that night we were champs and they were chumps and their fans were calling for Tex's head. 

But it's a fair call that we lack composure in big matches - we keep inventing new ways to lose.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=9692

MFC 16 players < 100 games.  Sydney 12

MFC 3 players > 150 games.  Sydney 7.

Our 3 > 150 are Lewis, Jones and Garlett - each is flawed in a different way and is unable to be the match winner we've needed.

Viney and Lever will make a big difference in this area.

[Superunknown 4,246]

24 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

We really are a very passive club. There is no hard edge to take us to finals. We were playing 3 men down with Spargo, Garlett and Hunt as non- contributors. Goodwin needed to show some dissatisfaction with the performance, instead he let them off the hook. Pathetic really.

Agree. A hard-nosed edge - killer attitude - may help. Are there any companies doing business running camps that focus on such things?

[beelzebub 23,392]

How on earth was yesterday even close to the Crows game ? 

We were , despite attrocious...scared kicking..still all but two goals ahead at quarter time. Against the crows we blitzed for 15 mins and cracked the game open. Yesterday we were blitzed...game effectively put to bed.

 

[Superunknown 4,246]

2 hours ago, Danelska said:

I'm still comfortable we will beat West Coast over there...

In a multi-verse version of Melbourne, you mean.

[rpfc 28,992]

And @Fifty-5 - our best players are proverbial babies whose decision making will improve when they mature. 

The future MFC team is much better than this one - I just worry we are not taking advantage of a year where anyone can win. 

Like a young team with flawed leaders near their end...

[beelzebub 23,392]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

And @Fifty-5 - our best players are proverbial babies whose decision making will improve when they mature. 

The future MFC team is much better than this one - I just worry we are not taking advantage of a year where anyone can win. 

Like a young team with flawed leaders near their end...

How then do you account for poor decisions by the non-baby players ?

[jackaub 1,402]

4 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

Agree. A hard-nosed edge - killer attitude - may help. Are there any companies doing business running camps that focus on such things?

Yes there are, but our guys either won't or don't think they need to attend. 

Too hard apparently and complain to the players association.

[SFebes 4,884]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

How then do you account for poor decisions by the non-baby players ?

Make the hard calls, become the baby dees or replace with the next lot of experienced players. It really does seem like it's the older guys who let the young ones down sometimes.

[Cards13 9,117]

It could be worse, we could have another foot issue with one of our key fwds to go along with the loss..

[rpfc 28,992]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

How then do you account for poor decisions by the non-baby players ?

They make poor decisions. I don’t know what you are getting at.

[old55 23,850]

It's pretty straightforward:  Lewis, Jones, Garlett vs. McVeigh, Franklin, Jack, Kennedy, Smith, Hannebury, Parker

[Adam The God 30,658]

2 hours ago, A F said:

There are similarities between all our loses at the MCG against good opposition this year. They've actually been almost carbon copies.

1) we've dominated games early but have squandered our dominance in front of goal (Hawthorn, Richmond and now Sydney).

2) given up really easy stoppage goals and failed to arrest the momentum by creating or taking chances.

3) we've allowed the opposition (Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond and Sydney) easy exits out of their back half. All of those teams have followed the same exit strategy. Short chip to an unmarked player in the pocket and then another chip to fifty and handballed out or kicked long to the boundary and reset. That we haven't been able to prevent this or put anything in place to stop this is staggering. You could see it was a problem with our forward zonal set up literally an hour into our Round 1 game. 

So whilst Goody and his coaching staff aren't responsible for our players choking in front of goal, they are culpable for failing to address issues in our system that have been present all year.

I'm not going to highlight any one players performance, but for me, we've not only thrown away a top 4 spot, but we've most likely thrown away our finals chance.

And not to be that [censored] who quotes his own post, but on point 3, the only reason Sydney didn't handball their way out of defensive fifty like the other sides had done, was because they don't have the leg speed. The scary thing is Longmire showed the competition how to beat us even without leg speed.

[beelzebub 23,392]

10 minutes ago, rpfc said:

They make poor decisions. I don’t know what you are getting at.

Your very inference was that as they mature...the kiddies...their decision making will better.

I suggest there's absolutely no guarantee of that... exhibit A ...our own mature players . 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Your very inference was that as they mature...the kiddies...their decision making will better.

I suggest there's absolutely no guarantee of that... exhibit A ...our own mature players . 

In fact the opposite could be true. The young ones are being poisoned by the old and scarred ones.

[chook fowler 19,756]

41 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

Agree. A hard-nosed edge - killer attitude - may help. Are there any companies doing business running camps that focus on such things?

There are - based in Syria I think.

[DV8 2,271]

10 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Fair enough I guess.

Although it's worth pointing out.... Are you aware that you don't have to read it, and we do?

I reckon that's enough now, don't you? You've said nothing new for the last half a dozen posts, and I'm sure you're as sick of this as I am. I look forward to getting back to you on this in the future, and proving once and for all how out of your mind you are in your suggestion.

Yes i am.  And I do have to read it. and I try to make it as plain to see, as I can.

 

This is how I wish to portray myself, and my message.  One doesn't have to watch tv shows, or look at art.

It is what it is.  And this is me.

.

[DV8 2,271]

10 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

 

I don't THINK he's kicked them?! I KNOW he has?

Of course he hasn't done well when we're controlled through the middle. Who has?! Even BUDDY doesn't do well when his midfield gets controlled. That's every forward IN HISTORY. You're taking pot shots at him now when his midfield isn't on top? Give me strength...

"When we have an open forward 50, and 2 or 3 talls in there to divide the defenders, he can do Ok."

Of course, again... every forward line going round that applies to. But you're picking and choosing your history again. His previous three seasons he would be double and triple teamed, bring the ball to ground, or just mark it and kick it himself. TMac giving him company in the F line is a recent development. He used to have the job on his own, with terrible midfields feeding him the ball, and he STILL kicked 40. Once again, your facts are nonsense, and your reading of his footy is miles off. It's the opposite of what's going on, actually.

"You can speak slowly, you can speak all night to the wall for all I care, your wrong."

Literally NOTHING you've said has been a rebuttal of anything I've said. Pretty much everything I've said has proven, in multiple ways, that you're wrong. I don't often get into these inane discussions with posters because they're exactly that... inane... but this is amazing. I haven't come across anything as far separated from reality on here in a while.

"Jesse is not suited to playing as THE Deep forward. unless they leave him one out."

Jesse played his first seasons as the only deep forward, and in case you missed it, the whole league has been double teaming him his whole career when given that role. WRONG. AGAIN. Incredible.

I could get a Goal ( iIIi )with an open forwardline and an open midfield putting the ball in my hip pocket.

[beelzebub 23,392]

46 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

Agree. A hard-nosed edge - killer attitude - may help. Are there any companies doing business running camps that focus on such things?

We don't do camps

[old55 23,850]

20 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

In fact the opposite could be true. The young ones are being poisoned by the old and scarred ones.

Our experienced players aren't scarred, they are just flawed:

• Lewis' body is past it, he is a total liability when he doesn't have the ball and it's now physically beyond him to influence the outcome in a tight contest against good opposition
• Jones has always been just a good player who has got the most out of himself.  Early in his career he was a ball butcher, in his prime a few years back he overcame this and became an effective user.  Now he's over the peak, has lost a yard and is back to his butchering ways.  He did everything within his limited abilities to get us across the line in the last quarter yesterday but he just could not hit a target often enough
• Garlett is a small forward - the hardest position on the ground to have an influence in pressure games.  Even the elite like Stephen Milne struggled in maximum heat

Our next 3 most experienced were TMac, who has won us a number of games off his own boot this year and last year and played well again yesterday but his usually reliable goal kicking is a bit off, Neville Jetta who is one of the best small defenders in the AFL and Dom Tyson who is a fringe player.

It's just not a fearsome, deep set - yet.

It's our supporters who are poisoned and scarred.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Fifty-5

[jnrmac 20,319]

Another disgraceful loss where we should have smashed the opposition. Clearly scoring shots are one major issue but the dumb football we continue to play under pressure is why we can't beat good strong sides.

The Swans are a very well drilled side but they were two rotations down and we let them control the uncontested possession count unbelievably. What TF were our coaching staff doing? Unfarking forgivable. We let them control the tempo of the game and they were very composed with the ball in hand. We were the opposite.

Memo to Goodwin: starting a loose player in the backline when we are the number 1 clearance side is dumb, dumb, dumb. How many times did we win a clearance and bomb it to Aliir?We continually bombed the ball into our outnumbered forward line and let Aliir Aliir contest the high ball and the Swans runners sweep the ball away. Our forward pressure was non-existent as was the pressure that our mids applied to theirs once they got the ball. In the last quarter when the game was on the line Heeney was largely unmanned and ran riot.

Our game plan all year has been simple. Get it quickly into the forward line and try to hold it in there. Well the Swans have a good defence and toyed with us. And when they swept the ball around the flanks where were our small forwards and mids? Nowhere. I am done with Garlett. Give me Bugg any day over him. At least he will run all day and put physical pressure on. His kicking for goal is virtually no different so why not? ANB had a shocker as did Hunt. Hogan played one of his worst games.

I am very critical of our defence but our talls actually worked reasonably well. OMac did some good things, Frosty did pretty well and Jetta was OK.

The apologists will say 'oh, but if we had have kicked straight we would have won.' Seriously. It's pathetic.

Its not like were don't know how the Swans play. Previous four games against them they have scored 86, 85, 80 and 69. Our top score was 50pts. 50 points!

Make no mistake this was a massive coaching failure. We needed to control the ball and make the Swans chase. We couldn't do it. They didn't even try to do it. Our leaders were hopeless. 7 goals in a row!! 6 each in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Shiite football.

I am a Jones fan but he played one of his worst possible games for the club. Lewis missed at least 4 balls coming in that he either misjudged or didn't want to contest.

Finally the umpiring was infuriating. You name it ,they stuffed up nearly every category. They didn't make Swans players move back off the mark, the Swans were allowed to dive in our backs, chopping the arms, holding the ball. And apparently they are allowed to kick the ball 8 metres and its a mark.

They [censored] up most of them. Wow. I am happy to contribute to a fund where Nicholls taken to court for cheating.

Make your September plans because we are going nowhere.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

5 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Our experienced players aren't scarred, they are just flawed:

• Lewis' body is past it, he is a total liability when he doesn't have the ball and it's now physically beyond him to influence the outcome in a tight contest against good opposition
• Jones has always been just a good player who has got the most out of himself.  Early in his career he was a ball butcher, in his prime a few years back he overcame this and became an effective user.  Now he's over the peak, has lost a yard and is back to his butchering ways.  He did everything within his limited abilities to get us across the line in the last quarter yesterday but he just could not hit a target often enough
• Garlett is a small forward - the hardest position on the ground to have an influence in pressure games.  Even the elite like Stephen Milne struggled in maximum heat

Our next 3 most experienced were TMac, who has won us a number of games off his own boot this year and last year and played well again yesterday but his usually reliable goal kicking is a bit off, Neville Jetta who is one of the best small defenders in the AFL and Dom Tyson who is a fringe player.

It's just not a fearsome, deep set - yet.

It's our supporters who are poisoned and scarred.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but they had 2 players down for basically the entire match, yet spread more effectively for the entire game. They did not seem slow, fatigued, lacking run. We looked lacklustre and scared, and it didn't help that we played an out of form Hunt and an old and slow Pederson. 

Selections and match ups continue to mind boggle. Vanders on Alir Alir? Nobody on Hennebry at any stoppage? Fritsch down back in the last, when we were trying to attack the contest, while Heeney beautifully mopped up every kick inside 50? 
 

As someone said above, we are wasting golden chances in seasons where there are no outstanding unbeatable contenders. A wide open season, where we could have finished 2nd on the ladder, looks to be another season where we may not make finals again. 

[jnrmac 20,319]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

We don't do camps

It's not the camp that was the issue. It was the fact that players went to the players association.

We have no leadership and the players cound't speak with the so called leaders or the coaching staff. What does that say? It says commuications with Goodwin co and terrible.

Imagine Brisbane under J Brown if the players went outside the club for something like that? It is unthinkable. Goodwin may be a measured coach but he seems to me from the outside to be clueless at managing people. Exhibit A the rd 23 last year. Exhibit B the camp.

He is like your classic management consultant.