The Need for Outside Midfielders

[deelusions from afar 1,620]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:12 PM, Nascent said:

I wonder if we have a solution for this on our list in Mitch Hannan. He has the attributes to be a good winger with speed, height and ability overhead and he is often clean with the footy with a neat kick on his left. The question mark would probably be his endurance base to cover the ground back and forth like Langdon does. 

Currently the main issue I have with his game is that he often goes missing at length and I think that isn't helped by playing in our forward 50 where we have similar mid sized forwards in Melksham and Fritsch that are often used as hit up targets. Perhaps Hannan to a wing could improve our dynamic in the forward half while solving our outside run and spread? Worth a shot at least in my view.

Agree - I think Hannan (and Fritsch) are both worth trying in this role.  

I also wonder why Hunt hasn't been given a decent go at it.  I know his kicking isn't great (but neither is Langdon's).  I assume it is more about fitness.  But if it's not a fitness issue, I feel like there's no reason why he couldn't do what Langdon's doing.  When he started his career he showed not only his pace, but his ability to tackle, to win the ball in the air and to read the play. Even playing as a defensive winger to shut down their most dangerous one, he has the speed to hurt the opposition when we have the ball.

[The heart beats true 16,643]

I think one of the things that I've really noticed about Langdon watching the game on the TV is that he's a natural outside player. He holds his shape exceptionally well. It's been such a glaring problem that having him do his role properly has only further emphasised what i think is a clear list imbalance. He's the only one that does is consistently, which is why he's become such a link player for us.

Speed is important, but we have too many guys who get caught in no mans land 10 metres from the pack when playing outside. If you maintain your shape in relation to the contest you're much more useful both defensively and moving forward. We seem to struggle to teach players how to do that, so I'd be keen to bring in someone else with experience at the end of the year to whom it comes naturally. 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

The Doggies gave us a lesson in what a dynamic balanced midfield looks like on Saturday.

Yes, we need another winger, but I was just as impressed by the way their 3 mids quickly got the ball out of congestion with one or two quick handballs. They have Libba dishing it out to the likes of Bontempelli and Macrae who killed us.

Hopefully Saturday was just a blip, as we saw improvement from our mids in the previous few weeks, but it needs to become the norm quick.

 

[Willmoy1947 3,854]

Just about agree with total of Page 15 and add that Jackson with a year under his belt and maybe a Laird to the list would be a tremendous help.

[Elegt 872]

I worry greatly that the team named this weekend will be far too slow. Have added no outside rom, wouldve loved to see guys like baker and bedford given a crack

[adonski 9,423]

Scrap this plan, we wouldn’t play them if we had them 

[spirit of norm smith 13,578]

46 minutes ago, Elegt said:

I worry greatly that the team named this weekend will be far too slow. Have added no outside rom, wouldve loved to see guys like baker and bedford given a crack

Absolutely right. We’ve gone slow v Saints. 
 

Surely Bedford and Baker and Corey waggenholfenbrau as ins. Before Oscar and josh waggenholfenbrau. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by spirit of norm smith
V

[3Dee 1,153]

Hunt anyone? Remember him?

[Elegt 872]

17 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Absolutely right. We’ve gone slow v Saints. 
 

Surely Bedford and Baker and Corey waggenholfenbrau as ins. Before Oscar and josh waggenholfenbrau. 

Goodwin seems to love slow players 

[Redleg 38,469]

4 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Goodwin seems to love slow players 

More to the point Goodwin dislikes certain players and they happen to be the ones with pace. 

[Binmans PA 26,676]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

More to the point Goodwin dislikes certain players and they happen to be the ones with pace. 

Yeah, he clearly hates Langdon. Just hates him.

[Elegt 872]

33 minutes ago, A F said:

Yeah, he clearly hates Langdon. Just hates him.

Langdon seems to be the only player in the whole 22 who can run

[Redleg 38,469]

15 hours ago, A F said:

Yeah, he clearly hates Langdon. Just hates him.

Don’t pick one player as an example, who was brought into the club, is playing well and was in from the first game. I am talking about players like Hunt, Bedford, Bennell and Baker who have pace but are not being considered. 
I also said he dislikes, not hates, certain players and they have pace. I never said he hated EVERY player with pace. Don’t misquote when you respond to try and make a poster look stupid.
I think most DL’s would agree we have gone slow this week, when playing a quick side. If the Saints rebound without pressure, like the Dogs did last week, we will have problems.
Anyway it is the Coach’s choice and if we win, he gets the credit.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Redleg

[Binmans PA 26,676]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Don’t pick one player as an example, who was brought into the club, is playing well and was in from the first game. I am talking about players like Hunt, Bedford, Bennell and Baker who have pace but are not being considered. 
I also said he dislikes, not hates, certain players and they have pace. I never said he hated EVERY player with pace. Don’t misquote when you respond to try and make a poster look stupid.
I think most DL’s would agree we have gone slow this week, when playing a quick side. If the Saints rebound without pressure, like the Dogs did last week, we will have problems.
Anyway it is the Coach’s choice and if we win, he gets the credit.

Fair enough. I'd debate that Bedford is fast though. I'm not against playing Hunt on a wing, but clearly he has been an inconsistent performer over the journey.

As for Bennell, he's not involved enough and Baker is a young guy trying to develop his game in the 2s. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a standard development path.

I think it'd be stupid to just play fast players simply because they're fast, if they're not going to get involved or be accountable to the way the team wants to play.

I reckon Bedford will definitely see another game this year. It's just about consistent performance and the spot will open up. Particularly, given the condensed fixturing ahead.

Edited August 29, 2020 by A F

[Redleg 38,469]

30 minutes ago, A F said:

Fair enough. I'd debate that Bedford is fast though. I'm not against playing Hunt on a wing, but clearly he has been an inconsistent performer over the journey.

As for Bennell, he's not involved enough and Baker is a young guy trying to develop his game in the 2s. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a standard development path.

I think it'd be stupid to just play fast players simply because they're fast, if they're not going to get involved or be accountable to the way the team wants to play.

I reckon Bedford will definitely see another game this year. It's just about consistent performance and the spot will open up. Particularly, given the condensed fixturing ahead.

I agree you don’t just play guys because they have pace, but IMO we needed to add pace to a very pedestrian side, not made any quicker by adding Jones, Brown, Oscar and Wagner , though at least Rivers is not slow. 
While Bedford might not win the Stawell Gift, he is quicker than all of our ins this week. The real surprise to me is Hunt. He is quicker than Spargo, Hannan, Melk and VDB, is a good mark and a long, reasonably accurate kick, but can’t get a game ahead of a guy who is 15 cms smaller than him and much slower. He is really on the outer.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Redleg

[Binmans PA 26,676]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I agree you don’t just play guys because they have pace, but IMO we needed to add pace to a very pedestrian side, not made any quicker by adding Jones, Brown, Oscar and Brown, though at least Rivers is not slow.

Fair enough. I disagree that we needed to inject those you mentioned just to add pace to the side.

Either the forwards and mids bring enough pressure or it won't matter. We clearly wanted attack off half back so brought in Wagner and Rivers, and Jones will add pressure forward of centre. Tomlinson will move to the wing. pushing AVB forward to add pressure with Jones.

Our game IMO is based on 18 players running hard both ways and our mids and half backs using the ball well from stoppage or contested situations.

Edited August 29, 2020 by A F

[spirit of norm smith 13,578]

Whilst we beat the Saints, Brad Hill and Zac Jones were in their best as running mids. We still need another midfielder or two with outside speed on the wing. 

current group - Baker or Hunt might get an opportunity (perhaps this week v Swans or Freo) 

Trade options - Matthew Ling (Swans) for Preuss, or Cedric Cox from Lions 

under 18s - our first pick 20-25 range : options are Jack Carroll (East Freo) or Eddie Ford(Western Jets) are guns.  Brandon Walker (East Freo) is another skilled fast mid but he’s under Freo NGA. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by spirit of norm smith
X

[MadAsHell 4,089]

I reckon Jared Polec would be well worth a go. We could get him pretty cheap (trade wise) and we know what his best can produce.

[Grr-owl 1,083]

Polec or Williams or Saad. Heard On the Slouch that Saints and Blues are going hard for Williams....

[DeeSpencer 23,642]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:36 PM, Redleg said:

I agree you don’t just play guys because they have pace, but IMO we needed to add pace to a very pedestrian side, not made any quicker by adding Jones, Brown, Oscar and Wagner , though at least Rivers is not slow. 
While Bedford might not win the Stawell Gift, he is quicker than all of our ins this week. The real surprise to me is Hunt. He is quicker than Spargo, Hannan, Melk and VDB, is a good mark and a long, reasonably accurate kick, but can’t get a game ahead of a guy who is 15 cms smaller than him and much slower. He is really on the outer.

Backs - I'd like a burner off half back but if we have Rivers and Salem and good structure we can be fine. 

Forwards - Hannan is almost as quick as Hunt and knows how to use it with forward craft, although his skills have gone out the window which opens the door for the likes of Hunt. Kossie obviously. Spargo - doesn't have Hunt's pace but he has a very quick change of direction due to being smaller and football smarts, quick mind and quick feet beats pure pace. Long term Spargo is better suited coming up the ground more and getting more of the ball, in the role Jones is currently playing, but for now I think he's ahead of the other pacey options.

Outside mids - Langdon, Vanders, Tomlinson. Clearly would like to replace one of those last two with someone quicker. Vanders still has the pace in a straight line and at least some understanding of the wing role. Can Harmes or Hunt do the same? Fritsch has done it before, do we go back to him playing at least a share of wing minutes? I'm more worried that we don't have a smart/skilled winger who knows the position more than pure speed.

Inside mids - I actually think this is our biggest weakness and it shows up at centre bounces and when the structure breaks down. Harmes was the answer in years previous. Sparrow has provided some cover with decent results at times this year. But we need to cut it to the time our 4 main guys play on ball and find a 5th option with speed.

[Paulo 285]

J Stephenson from Collingwood seems to have his issues at Collingwood, he was dropped against us ( to my delight ) is he gettable, can he be moved up to a wing, does he have a tank

Others I would like us to enquire about

A Cerra, freo

Ainsworth  gc

S Bolton rich

 

[Its Time for Another 4,058]

26 minutes ago, Paulo said:

J Stephenson from Collingwood seems to have his issues at Collingwood, he was dropped against us ( to my delight ) is he gettable, can he be moved up to a wing, does he have a tank

Others I would like us to enquire about

A Cerra, freo

Ainsworth  gc

S Bolton rich

 

Cerra for Brayshaw anyone?

[spirit of norm smith 13,578]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:35 PM, It's Time said:

Cerra for Brayshaw anyone?

This would be a win for both clubs. But I think Gus is such a popular bloke with his teammates and coming into his prime at 24, it would be a harsh move.

Brayshaw would have to initiate the move and not MFC. In fact I think Gus can still get better.

Cerra certainly has huge potential and would be a good fit to balance our midfield between inside and outside mids. 
 

So it’s a no but agree with you raising as a “thought bubble”

Edited September 3, 2020 by spirit of norm smith
C

[Elegt 872]

Need oskar baker in

[Elegt 872]

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

This would be a win for both clubs. But I think Gus is such a popular bloke with his teammates and coming into his prime at 24, it would be a harsh move.

Brayshaw would have to initiate the move and not MFC. In fact I think Gus can still get better.

Cerra certainly has huge potential and would be a good fit to balance our midfield between inside and outside mids. 
 

So it’s a no but agree with you raising as a “thought bubble”

thats crazy. Brayshaw has gone backwards, cerra will be a star