Post Match Discussion - Round 4

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

15 hours ago, DV8 said:

Barass would have them training with yellow ball in the wet to get them right,, after many many 100 Mtr sprints.

But its much more than just a skill thing.

===============

 

This has been going on at Melbourne for decades now Under game pressure

 

We do not handle oown supporters negativity on game day.

 

The players try harder and harder, until they end up trying so hard, they lose objectivity...  and they become harassed within their own minds.

 

From that point, the game is as good as gone.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

we our our own worst enemies on gamedays.

.

lets take it out on the opposition,,,,, instead of our own players.

.

Leave the venom and critique for during the week days Melbourne..

 

.

Teams have been copping criticism and abuse for poor play ftom the sidelines for decades DV.  Yet the good ones go on to win regardless.  Has nothing to do with a particular MFC supporter style.  I was there y'day and they had great support before and during the early part of the game.  The only thing that happened afterwards was a playing group that went to water as soon as the pressure and run was applied by the Hawks.  The MFC crowd went quiet in disbelief and shock which was simply a normal reaction.  Players [censored] up....again...pure and simple.  Its mostly upstairs.  They need a hypnotherapist!  The greatest supporter group in the world couldnt help this lot from train crashing as soon as any expectations are put on them.

15 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Terrible. 

Coaching strategy I mean.

When Hogan patted that rookie on the head in the first quarter who dropped the chest mark I thought here we [censored] go!  Karma gods never reward that behaviour.  

Mate i said to bro at the match when i saw that happen ....he shld be patting himself on the head.  His opponent dropped the mark but at least he was playing in front and reading the play up field better than Hogan who continues to play from behind when playing a deep forward role when he shld be in front, especially in the wet and whenever guys are coming out of mid field under pressure.  Dumb as an ox up forward

15 hours ago, DV8 said:

No we didn't, we lost this out in the open air of the Arena.

Not the coaching.

 

The players became shell-shocked. From the hawks sole intent on Pressure in the 1st, and from our own unfriendly-fire.

 

We undermine our own, and have been doing that to ourselves foe many a year.

 

This is partly why we becAme a front-running team in our past. because when Our boys are 'on', the supporters are 'on'... everyone is Happy.

 

But add focused opposition Pressure to shell-shock those D's,  and then watch them Implode..................  from over the fence first.   The whole vocal-theme changes from the positive,,,  into a ferocious attack on our own men.

 

Particularly the pressure of the Poos and Wees.

 

.

Complete load of rubbish...again

14 hours ago, DV8 said:

That's not a handball game;  its a reactive pressured overuse style.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2014/27/syd-v-haw

We were 'the hunted',,, and the hawks made sure we felt 'hunted'.  and then so did our supporters, further adding to the pressure.

From there,,, an impossible task to regroup the team belief.

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014-09-27/we-didnt-give-ourselves-a-chance-laments-longmire-syd

 

And again!  DV you weren't even there yesterday.  Again the boys had fab support from the get go for an away game from where i was sitting.  I heard a few other soft MFC supporters behind me complainIng that some supporters were groaning too much after the flood gates were opening.  All they did was whinge about other MFC supporters yet not at one stage did i hear or see them chant with the cheer squad in support.  Now THAT is a pathetic supporter and something i hear / see far too often in an MFC crowd.  We eat our own just as you are doing on here, instead of being human (moaning/groaning like normal ppl do) but still barracking when the chips are down.  From the many interviews i hear, the players hear very little, other than chanting and distant background noise on game day.  And if they are listening that closely when near the boundary line and letting effect them on game day then they are not worthy of pulling on any AFL guernsey.  Nothing to do with the crowd mate...it's mostly skills/effort and in particular with our lot... upstairs.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

14 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

We will be 12th in around 10 minutes.

Very true. Within two games and the results from each, all in the same round, we went from 3rd to 11th, then at the finish of the round, settled at 12th. What an achievement. Re-man the team with youngsters capable of learning. Take advantage of the few experienced players that we have. Take a quiet word with Lever and Lewis - amongst others - about form and responsibility. Prepare to change options on game day, during game day, at training each week. Oh, stuff it, start again completely. Is Goodwin up to it?

[Fat Tony 5,217]

My notes:

• Petracca can be played in the centre bounces at times, but he should be predominately played as a forward.
• Jones tagging Mitchell was a very good decision IMO and he did a great job. I would probably play him on Martin next week.
• Pedersen needs to come back into the side for balance until TMac is fit. Particularly given how far up the field Hogan is playing.
• I like Frost, but he is poor in the wet.
• Lever lacks confidence at the moment and is a liability. I thought Goodwin should have tried him up forward yesterday once it was clear our structure wasn’t working.
• Lewis is finished. As good a kick as he is, we would be much better with a player who can keep his feet in the contest.
• Vince had a dirty day but has been very good this year otherwise.
• I wanted Bugg dropped last week and you cannot trust him to kick goals.
• Hunt must come back in.
• Our defence needs to trust OMac not to be out marked because we are getting beaten on the crumb. This will be a big issue this week given how Richmond play.
• Overall, I think Goodwin needs to go back to making sure we have balance in our selection. Hogan, Pedersen/Weideman and Petracca as our key forwards and OMac and two of Frost, Lever and Wagner in defence. The rest of our side needs to be selected with an emphasis on pace.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I've thought for a while that other coaches are putting more work into studying us.

Which is why Hunt has been ineffective, why Melksham and Hibberd have not been firing. Lever exposed.

Now Clarkson has shown the football world the blueprint for beating us. Not that the other coaches had no idea before ... but now the i's have been dotted and the t's crossed for them.

Richmond will play exactly the same way. It suits them beautifully. Swarm in huge packs and smother us.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

25 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

My notes:

• Petracca can be played in the centre bounces at times, but he should be predominately played as a forward.
• Jones tagging Mitchell was a very good decision IMO and he did a great job. I would probably play him on Martin next week.
• Pedersen needs to come back into the side for balance until TMac is fit. Particularly given how far up the field Hogan is playing.
• I like Frost, but he is poor in the wet.
• Lever lacks confidence at the moment and is a liability. I thought Goodwin should have tried him up forward yesterday once it was clear our structure wasn’t working.
• Lewis is finished. As good a kick as he is, we would be much better with a player who can keep his feet in the contest.
• Vince had a dirty day but has been very good this year otherwise.
• I wanted Bugg dropped last week and you cannot trust him to kick goals.
• Hunt must come back in.
• Our defence needs to trust OMac not to be out marked because we are getting beaten on the crumb. This will be a big issue this week given how Richmond play.
• Overall, I think Goodwin needs to go back to making sure we have balance in our selection. Hogan, Pedersen/Weideman and Petracca as our key forwards and OMac and two of Frost, Lever and Wagner in defence. The rest of our side needs to be selected with an emphasis on pace.

Jones did a good job, but Mitchell had 13 clearances, so I would prefer we don't tag at stoppages as it just left us essentially a man down.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Watts the matter

[shorty 233]

Can't play in the wet or greasy conditions same last year. Mentally weak team who like to be in front on the scoreboard , intimdated by Hawthorn, outcoached and still void of an A grade freak , 8th spot at best. Had to switch off in the last ten minutes if I was coaching I would be worried about the lack of effort in the last 15mins.

 

There is never any space in our forward line but plenty in our backline.

[DeleteUser 638]

16 hours ago, DV8 said:

We are a good side. 

 

A good young side which is learning... just as we are as a club, Learning.

Said every apologist for rotten football since 2006.

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

Thought I’d give it a night before venting on this one, but that was the most insipid, pathetic and gutless performance I’ve seen since the dark days of the Neeld era. 

The only ones who hadn’t given up for the day by the last quarter were the poor bastards in the cheers squad.

I don’t really care that much if we lose but at least run out the game like you’re actually trying to accomplish something. 

[DeleteUser 638]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Stop blaming the Supporters FFS

THESE GUYS ARE ON TOP COIN

The least they can do is learn the trade. 

I buy a Membership to be entertained by a professional football team, not a bunch of soft Marshmallows

Blaming supporters is laughable.

And typically Melbourne.

Blame anyone but the p!ss poor prancy professional prima donna players and the coach.

Just risible puss.

Goodwin must go. And now.

 

[DeleteUser 638]

11 hours ago, america de cali said:

We can’t play both Vince and Lewis anymore in the same game. 

Quambatook 3rds might use them.

Or Sea Lake.

[jnrmac 20,053]

4 minutes ago, timbo said:

Blaming supporters is laughable.

And typically Melbourne.

Blame anyone but the p!ss poor prancy professional prima donna players and the coach.

Just risible puss.

Goodwin must go. And now.

 

Its staggering that someone could type that and think that it is our fault. Someone has been eating too many cheese platters.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by jnrmac

[DeleteUser 638]

11 hours ago, DV8 said:

Money as absolutely nothing to do with the fact swyl.  nothing to do with it.

Its a human condition. anxiety.

 

Now we can add our anxiety out aloud to our players, and they will double up with there own.

Or we can leave our negatives at the gate of the stadium, and make a promise to ourselves that we will not take our fears out on our boys,,, but transfer that fear, into anger against the opposition.

 

Then we can add to the teams efforts instead of loading with our stuff.

 

We need to be LOUD, but not AT our team;  rather be loud & With them in support.

Sorry but if you suffer from anxiety to the point that your angry supporters cause you to have a sudden inability to execute your elite skills, for which you are being paid squillions to use, then perhaps the football field is not for you.

 

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Teams have been copping criticism and abuse for poor play ftom the sidelines for decades DV.  Yet the good ones go on to win regardless.  Has nothing to do with a particular MFC supporter style.  I was there y'day and they had great support before and during the early part of the game.  The only thing that happened afterwards was a playing group that went to water as soon as the pressure and run was applied by the Hawks.  The MFC crowd went quiet in disbelief and shock which was simply a normal reaction.  Players [censored] up....again...pure and simple.  Its mostly upstairs.  They need a hypnotherapist!  The greatest supporter group in the world couldnt help this lot from train crashing as soon as any expectations are put on them.

Mate i said to bro at the match when i saw that happen ....he shld be patting himself on the head.  His opponent dropped the mark but at least he was playing in front and reading the play up field better than Hogan who continues to play from behind when playing a deep forward role when he shld be in front, especially in the wet and whenever guys are coming out of mid field under pressure.  Dumb as an ox up forward

Complete load of rubbish...again

And again!  DV you weren't even there yesterday.  Again the boys had fab support from the get go for an away game from where i was sitting.  I heard a few other soft MFC supporters behind me complainIng that some supporters were groaning too much after the flood gates were opening.  All they did was whinge about other MFC supporters yet not at one stage did i hear or see them chant with the cheer squad in support.  Now THAT is a pathetic supporter and something i hear / see far too often in an MFC crowd.  We eat our own just as you are doing on here, instead of being human (moaning/groaning like normal ppl do) but still barracking when the chips are down.  From the many interviews i hear, the players hear very little, other than chanting and distant background noise on game day.  And if they are listening that closely when near the boundary line and letting effect them on game day then they are not worthy of pulling on any AFL guernsey.  Nothing to do with the crowd mate...it's mostly skills/effort and in particular with our lot... upstairs.  

It’s a waste of time Rusty

deeluded is on another planet ? 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s a waste of time Rusty

deeluded is on another planet ? 

I was wishing i was also on that planet about half way through the 3rd quarter SW

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

Just now, Rusty Nails said:

I was wishing i was also on that planet about half way through the 3rd quarter SW

I could only follow scores on the internet

it was a Flashback to the 1988 GF

IN 30 YEARS WE HAVE LEARNT NOTHING AS A CLUB

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Also. Goalkicking.

Gawn, Bugg multiple times, Garlett, ANB, maybe others. When the game is on the line, those are the ones you must put away. With a bit more scoreboard pressure who knows what might have happened.

Having said that, it might have papered over the cracks too. The mental issues are always lying just under the surface when not on full display.

But to miss the way those guys missed, as in, missing the side of a barn, is what is technically known as bu11sh!t football.

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

My notes:

• Petracca can be played in the centre bounces at times, but he should be predominately played as a forward.
• Jones tagging Mitchell was a very good decision IMO and he did a great job. I would probably play him on Martin next week.
• Pedersen needs to come back into the side for balance until TMac is fit. Particularly given how far up the field Hogan is playing.
• I like Frost, but he is poor in the wet.
• Lever lacks confidence at the moment and is a liability. I thought Goodwin should have tried him up forward yesterday once it was clear our structure wasn’t working.
• Lewis is finished. As good a kick as he is, we would be much better with a player who can keep his feet in the contest.
• Vince had a dirty day but has been very good this year otherwise.
• I wanted Bugg dropped last week and you cannot trust him to kick goals.
• Hunt must come back in.
• Our defence needs to trust OMac not to be out marked because we are getting beaten on the crumb. This will be a big issue this week given how Richmond play.
• Overall, I think Goodwin needs to go back to making sure we have balance in our selection. Hogan, Pedersen/Weideman and Petracca as our key forwards and OMac and two of Frost, Lever and Wagner in defence. The rest of our side needs to be selected with an emphasis on pace.

We cannot have weekly changes so that our players are continuously re-orienting to the new set-ups.

Our players need to hold down positions, responsibilities and varied roles in our game plan. Uncertainties arise from our alleged depth both at the individual level and as a team performing in some harmony.

Having said that, I agree entirely with what you posit, FT, in completion and in sequence but this has to be implemented for change and longevity, with subtle team changes as required by injuries, suspensions and major form losses - plus balanced with only those great performances of those players ready to move to a higher level than the VFL competition. Coaching 'favourites' should no longer apply. As for Goodwin, a Mark II game plan is a must to save us from smarter coaches that can 'read'.

[Deemania since 56 6,607]

1 hour ago, shorty said:

Can't play in the wet or greasy conditions same last year. Mentally weak team who like to be in front on the scoreboard , intimdated by Hawthorn, outcoached and still void of an A grade freak , 8th spot at best. Had to switch off in the last ten minutes if I was coaching I would be worried about the lack of effort in the last 15mins.

 

There is never any space in our forward line but plenty in our backline.

Painfully true, that last sentence, Shorty.

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

Opinion article from a dees fan in THE AGE

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/after-decades-of-failure-how-can-i-raise-my-kids-to-be-demons-fans-20180416-p4z9ut.html

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

What, they're only grappling with that now?

They need to have "that" discussion pre engagement.

Some of us dealt it a long time since. Still the only DEMONS fan in this household.

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

12 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Opinion article from a dees fan in THE AGE

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/after-decades-of-failure-how-can-i-raise-my-kids-to-be-demons-fans-20180416-p4z9ut.html

Agree with every word....

i wish i didn’t

[Cards13 9,117]

The most galling part of it is the fact the Hawks were so light on off the bench and we still dished up that stinking turd burger of a second half let alone the last qtr. 

 

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere but: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/after-decades-of-failure-how-can-i-raise-my-kids-to-be-demons-fans-20180416-p4z9ut.html

[chook fowler 19,444]

The backline is far to slow, especially Lewis and Jetta. We miss the run and carry of Hunt.

We don’t have anyone to take a mark in the forward line now that Hogan is spending more time up the ground. The game should have been over at quarter time given the number of forward 50 entries that we had. Our ball use and goal kicking was woeful and wasted many opportunities. Max needs to spend some time practicing his goal kicking from 20 metres. Both his misses have been very costly. Bugg in front of goal is a lost cause and Melkshams accuracy has gone. Garlett is far too hit and - can’t be relied on.

The only above average players we have are Gawn, Oliver, Hogan, Petracca, Viney and maybe Hibberd. Not nearly enough.

Edited April 16, 2018 by chook fowler

[leave it to deever 17,511]

•  
•  
•  
•  
• COACH Simon Goodwin says the players and coaches are already looking to respond, after a poor performance against Hawthorn at the MCG on SSunday 

 

 

 

 

 I know all clubs have to have presence in the media and put spin out.

Seriously though I wish we could just close up shop and just let our footy talk for us.

[Deespicable 2,717]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

The back line at the moment is a shambles, I think we can all agree on that.

But I also think the back line is being left exposed too often by the game plan.  By pushing most of our players up the ground in the hope that we can lock it in our forward line and score goals, we then leave our back line open to the counter attack and we look ridiculous when it happens.  Lever was supposed to be the sort of player who would help in this regard, but teams are manning him up and making him more accountable which limits his ability to be the player we want him to be.

Very true and why a lot of work will be done this week. Clearly if you want to press up you need players who can race back and that's why Hunt's omission before other (slower) defenders was extraordinary. Further to this we have removed our hardest-working midfielder backtracker in pre-season  from the side - Stretch. I'll put money on that they will both be included this week. The other factor down back is that we have rarely invoked the switch play all season. You need confidence and good kicks for that and players presenting and working. My understanding was that Jordy would fill that role with his smarts this season - sadly that hasn't happened so we have resolved to go back up the line and relied on our stoppage work to beat sides - clearly Hawthorn weren't allowing that. 

Goodwin has at least tried to develop his own game style, rather than copy someone else's, which is commendable, but he also needs to sit down this morning and realise that their are severe deficiencies within this style that need to be fixed as soon as possible.  To me, this will be either the making of him as a coach, or will see his tenure at the club end sooner than we all want it too.  If he can suck it up and make the changes he needs to, rather than being stubborn

In actual fact this season he has become more and more enamoured with the Richmond model - hence the no back up ruckman and small forwards around the one pod (Hogan rather than Riewoldt). He can lay claim to the initiative of running the extra man off the back of the square - but that was devised by him two years ago under Roosy. 

And as others have mentioned, we need to get a proper second ruckman into the side.  I don't care if it's Pedersen, Weideman or even Mitch King for that matter.  We need someone who can be a positive part of the contest for us rather than a bloke who isn't even 190cms tall.

The last thing any side needs at the moment is a second ruckman, especially when you have the best in the game as your first ruckman. Further to that if he resorts back to Weeds or Pedo this week (King is no chance), then Goody has wasted the past two games building up a comparable line up for the Richmond game. Harmes on Grigg is pivoltal to it. What he may decide to do is bring in Tim Smith because he is a workhorse tackler plus a more powerful man than Fritsch when the long balls come in. Weeds is getting close mind you and his agility is getting better - he could yet be a Tim O'Brien type character.