21 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I reckon half the blokes here judging our players as soft over this probably couldn't complete 20 good push ups or even finish the time trial run without dying

I trust the players made the right decision here. Don't let a slow news week get the better of you guys.

Hey, Smokey.  You mentioned earlier you are ex SAS and that the players made a smart decision.  So you are one of the very few on here that has some idea of what the players went thru.

While SAS training may differ from what Goodwin describes as 'a special operations camp was by senior police officers', can you give us an idea of what may have upset some players so much.  And why said players would complain this year given the club had apparently overcome the shortcomings from 2016. (I believe the camp was to run 18th-20th ie includes two nights).

Thanks.

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

In all of this, I doubt any of us on here know the exact nature of the machinations that went on,  leading up to the decision.  However, what peeves me is the likes of Spud Frawley and Campbell Brown at their blokey best, trying to put the 'soft underbelly' tag on us.  Brown's comment  that this is very Melbourne like, peeves me even more.  The guy was a thug in his playing days.

 

I accept Goody's response to this and hope that the players use the comments of Frawley and Brown as a motivating force, rather than accepting the put down.

Go Dees in 2018.

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by iv'a worn smith

20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I've been apathetic about this, but on deeper reflection there are concerns.

Anyone with a bit of knowledge about the club knows the players love and respect Goody, however, there are a group of players that have either knowingly, or unwittingly, undermined the club, the coach and his preparations for the 2018 season.  It's poor.  Although, I doubt it will have any affect on game outcomes next year.

We don't know the players concerned, but I hope Tyson isn't involved considering his disappointment at getting injured at last year's camp.  I doubt Goodwin would need much of an excuse to hand his position to Corey Maynard.

The sentence in bold says it all - and do we really care about anything else?  Compared to critical injuries etc this is a non event.

5 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Hey, Smokey.  You mentioned earlier you are ex SAS and that the players made a smart decision.  So you are one of the very few on here that has some idea of what the players went thru.

While SAS training may differ from what Goodwin describes as 'a special operations camp was run by senior police officers', can you give us an idea of what may have upset some players so much.  And why some players would complain this year given the club had apparently overcome the shortcomings from 2016. (I believe the camp was to run 18th-20th ie includes two nights).

Thanks.

Its really hard to say without having seen the training program they had scheduled - all I can really say is my body is permanently shattered (feet and back mainly) from doing this style of training regularly over a few fun years. I'd have a guess at saying the players perhaps didn't like the drills involving heavy weight carried in awkward form factors in difficult environments (such as running for km's in a small team with a very heavy log on your shoulders on soft sand). Make no mistake - training like this is designed to break you down physically and mentally. I can see the advantage in this from the mental perspective - but I'm not sure its worth breaking them physically to achieve it. There has to be a better way in the modern era.

Whilst I do find this situation to be a bit strange - I'm not concerned about it so much as I've seen the shape the boys have come back to pre season in. They all look as fit as they have ever been - so I guess I trust the fact they made this decision for the right reasons, not because of laziness or anything like that.

6 minutes ago, sue said:

The sentence in bold says it all - and do we really care about anything else?  Compared to critical injuries etc this is a non event.

your comments resonate of wishful thinking. anyway my wish is that your wish turns out to be true, nevertheless i will still keep my fingers crossed and avoid ladders and black cats

33 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I reckon half the blokes here judging our players as soft over this probably couldn't complete 20 good push ups or even finish the time trial run without dying

I trust the players made the right decision here. Don't let a slow news week get the better of you guys

Does not take a hardcock to work out which is the softest team in the AFL.

1 minute ago, america de cali said:

Does not take a hardcock to work out which is the softest team in the AFL.

Port.

Who really gives a stuff what Spud or any other clowns in the media think. They are entitled to an opinion but it doesn't matter a pinch of. 

1 minute ago, america de cali said:

Does not take a hardcock to work out which is the softest team in the AFL.

Sure, but it takes more than cranky old armchair critic on the internet to understand what these players go through physically.

The guys are entitled to enjoy a Christmas break without being in a wheelchair.

7 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Port.

 

Are you blaming Jack Watts?

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by america de cali

53 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I've been apathetic about this, but on deeper reflection there are concerns.

Anyone with a bit of knowledge about the club knows the players love and respect Goody, however, there are a group of players that have either knowingly, or unwittingly, undermined the club, the coach and his preparations for the 2018 season.  It's poor.  Although, I doubt it will have any affect on game outcomes next year.

I suspect you are right and that it was 'unwittingly'. 

To support that - From reports some players rang AFLPA for 'guidance'.  Not unreasonable by concerned players.  There is every possibility the players just wanted to know their options, not necessarily looking for direct action by AFLPA.  A bit naive on their part perhaps as that is not how unions work especially on H&S issues.

At that point it was taken out of player hands and again from reports, AFLPA took up the cause.  It does not seem much negotiating went on last week.  The pin was duly pulled on the camp. 

There may well be a few sheepish players at training this week who would not be happy they have unwittingly brought this upon their teammates and coaches.   Unfortunately, the media loves this stuff and sometimes mud sticks.  Not a good look for us but hopefully, some other club/player slips up this week to give media hounds something else to talk about.

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

15 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

your comments resonate of wishful thinking. anyway my wish is that your wish turns out to be true, nevertheless i will still keep my fingers crossed and avoid ladders and black cats

Possibly, but a bit of wishful thinking sure beats assuming every little thing that looks bad is an omen of forthcoming disaster.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Frawley, the former head of the AFLCA, having a go at the players for seeking advice from the AFLPA. 

What would Frawley have preferred, the coach and FD refuse to take on board the concerns of 1/3 of the list and push ahead anyway with a "my way or the highway" attitude?

I would have prefered that players had spoken face to face with Goodwin. 

If that had happened this wouldn’t be an issue. But the AFLPA were bought in

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I would have prefered that players had spoken face to face with Goodwin. 

If that had happened this wouldn’t be an issue. But the AFLPA were bought in

GET OUTTA HERE WITH THAT NEOLIBERAL ALT-RIGHT NEOCON ANTI UNION PROPAGANDA 

1 minute ago, praha said:

GET OUTTA HERE WITH THAT NEOLIBERAL ALT-RIGHT NEOCON ANTI UNION PROPAGANDA 

BANG!!

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I would have prefered that players had spoken face to face with Goodwin. 

If that had happened this wouldn’t be an issue. But the AFLPA were bought in

I'm not convinced that was the intent of the players. They are entitled to seek advice from their union.

40 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Its really hard to say without having seen the training program they had scheduled - all I can really say is my body is permanently shattered (feet and back mainly) from doing this style of training regularly over a few fun years. I'd have a guess at saying the players perhaps didn't like the drills involving heavy weight carried in awkward form factors in difficult environments (such as running for km's in a small team with a very heavy log on your shoulders on soft sand). Make no mistake - training like this is designed to break you down physically and mentally. I can see the advantage in this from the mental perspective - but I'm not sure its worth breaking them physically to achieve it. There has to be a better way in the modern era.

Whilst I do find this situation to be a bit strange - I'm not concerned about it so much as I've seen the shape the boys have come back to pre season in. They all look as fit as they have ever been - so I guess I trust the fact they made this decision for the right reasons, not because of laziness or anything like that.

Thanks.  I can't imagine how gruelling it would be.  I agree, I don't think it was laziness.  Perhaps poorly thought thru but not laziness.

 

For general info.  Hawthorn did a 5-day camp which included doing laps carrying a weighted tractor tyre, then a 3 day hike.  That didn't look like much fun either!  Some fascinating pics on their website (if anyone can bear going to an opps website...)

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by Lucifer's Hero

16 minutes ago, sue said:

Possibly, but a bit of wishful thinking sure beats assuming every little thing that looks bad is an omen of forthcoming disaster.

not omen of forthcoming disaster.........potential omen of forthcoming disaster

there is a difference

afl team success is a matter of small percentage differences. any potential disharmony is a red flag and we have a recent history of too many red flags.

31 minutes ago, Smokey said:

 
The guys are entitled to enjoy a Christmas break without being in a wheelchair.

Or playing finals.

1 minute ago, Fork 'em said:

Or playing finals.

It's time to move on mate

Look to 2018

58 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

  However, what peeves me is the likes of Spud Frawley and Campbell Brown at their blokey best, trying to put the 'soft underbelly' tag on us. 

 
We put that tag on ourselves without their help.

10 minutes ago, Smokey said:

I'm not convinced that was the intent of the players. They are entitled to seek advice from their union.

Yes, but that breaks trust with the Head Coach. 

If we had won the last 3 flags i would not have an issue. But last time i looked The MFC choked at the last hurdle and missed the finals altogether (again)

My issue is how did this get out to the media and did the players approach the coach and staff first.I have real concerns if the players went to the union first and if so who were they?

6 minutes ago, Smokey said:

It's time to move on mate

Look to 2018

So far it don't look promising.
Coach and players aren't even on the same page.

7 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

So far it don't look promising.
Coach and players aren't even on the same page.

How do you know that?

53 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Sure, but it takes more than cranky old armchair critic on the internet to understand what these players go through physically.

The guys are entitled to enjoy a Christmas break without being in a wheelchair.

The guys are also welcome to not play footy at all and to find another job that isnt physically demanding with a huge toll on the body.

Nobody is holding a gun to their head.

 

Edited December 18, 20178 yr by Petraccattack